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EU proposal banning ammunition on flights in checked in baggage
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Any of you EU members know anything about this proposal?
It has number 185/2010 and is said to be effective from April 29.

This is all about increasing air transport and air travel security.
Appendix B-5 says that ammunition among other things, is forbideen to take onboard in checked in baggage.

If this is correct it will be impossible for both hunters/stalkers and competition shooters to travel with ammo within EU using air transport.


Arild Iversen.



 
Posts: 1881 | Location: Southern Coast of Norway. | Registered: 02 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I've always used the car instead of air transport, when travelling for hunting/stalking (unfortunately few times); I find air companies overweight fares ridiculously high and I like to bring along a lot of stuff. That EU rule (if correct) will enforce my opinion.
 
Posts: 1459 | Location: north-west Italy | Registered: 16 April 2002Reply With Quote
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do you mean this:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUr...055:0001:0055:EN:PDF


quote:
ATTACHMENT 4-C
PASSENGERS AND CABIN BAGGAGE
LIST OF PROHIBITED ARTICLES
Without prejudice to applicable safety rules, passengers are not permitted to carry the following articles into security
restricted areas and on board an aircraft:

(a) guns, firearms and other devices that discharge projectiles — devices capable, or appearing capable, of being used to cause
serious injury by discharging a projectile, including:
— firearms of all types, such as pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns,
— toy guns, replicas and imitation firearms capable of being mistaken for real weapons,
— component parts of firearms, excluding telescopic sights,
— compressed air and CO 2 guns, such as pistols, pellet guns, rifles and ball bearing guns,
— signal flare pistols and starter pistols,
— bows, cross bows and arrows,
— harpoon guns and spear guns,
— slingshots and catapults;

(b) stunning devices — devices designed specifically to stun or immobilise, including:
— devices for shocking, such as stun guns, tasers and stun batons,
— animal stunners and animal killers,
— disabling and incapacitating chemicals, gases and sprays, such as mace, pepper sprays, capsicum sprays, tear gas,
acid sprays and animal repellent sprays;

(c) objects with a sharp point or sharp edge — objects with a sharp point or sharp edge capable of being used to cause
serious injury, including:
— items designed for chopping, such as axes, hatchets and cleavers,
— ice axes and ice picks,
— razor blades,
— box cutters,
— knives with blades of more than 6 cm,
L 55/16 EN Official Journal of the European Union 5.3.2010
— scissors with blades of more than 6 cm as measured from the fulcrum,
— martial arts equipment with a sharp point or sharp edge,
— swords and sabres;

(d) workmen’s tools — tools capable of being used either to cause serious injury or to threaten the safety of aircraft,
including:
— crowbars,
— drills and drill bits, including cordless portable power drills,
— tools with a blade or a shaft of more than 6 cm capable of use as a weapon, such as screwdrivers and chisels,
— saws, including cordless portable power saws,
— blowtorches,
— bolt guns and nail guns;

(e) blunt instruments — objects capable of being used to cause serious injury when used to hit, including:
— baseball and softball bats,
— clubs and batons, such as billy clubs, blackjacks and night sticks,
— martial arts equipment;

(f) explosives and incendiary substances and devices — explosives and incendiary substances and devices capable, or appearing
capable, of being used to cause serious injury or to pose a threat to the safety of aircraft, including:
ammunition,
— blasting caps,
— detonators and fuses,
— replica or imitation explosive devices,
— mines, grenades and other explosive military stores,
— fireworks and other pyrotechnics,
— smoke-generating canisters and smoke-generating cartridges,
— dynamite, gunpowder and plastic explosives.


the way i see it, the regulations only outlaw above mentioned objects as cabin luggage.
but i could be wrong, nothing surprises me anymore.
 
Posts: 930 | Location: Norway | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Steffen:
... nothing surprises me anymore.


+1, especially with EU idiot rules Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 1459 | Location: north-west Italy | Registered: 16 April 2002Reply With Quote
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That´s the document Steffen, but look at page 20, attachement B-5 about checked in (hold) baggage.


Arild Iversen.



 
Posts: 1881 | Location: Southern Coast of Norway. | Registered: 02 June 2000Reply With Quote
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thanks for correcting me.
maybe there is good hunting in Switzerland.
 
Posts: 930 | Location: Norway | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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It looks like pharagraph 5.4.2, a and b are taking care of the problem.
That is as long as national rules permits carriage of ammunition.

Sorry if I cried wolf, but saw the proposal on another site, and did not read all the "small print".

For a scary moment another AR weeend in England was slipping away...
Well, about time to hit the sack I guess diggin


Arild Iversen.



 
Posts: 1881 | Location: Southern Coast of Norway. | Registered: 02 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Guns and ammo should travel in separated boxes in a dedicated and separate luggage van. This is my knowledge about the already existent rules.
In Italy it is already forbidden to check in normal luggage containing ammo.


bye
Stefano
Waidmannsheil
 
Posts: 1653 | Location: Milano Italy | Registered: 04 July 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
It looks like pharagraph 5.4.2, a and b are taking care of the problem.
That is as long as national rules permits carriage of ammunition.


But from what I've heard, airlines won't be using 5.4.2.....
They largely consider ammo to be a PITA, so banning it probably seems like a good idea.
 
Posts: 74 | Location: Norway | Registered: 10 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Either way this is going to spell trouble. Given the political climate, and how "popular" hunters and shooting sportsmen in general are, what are the chances that all countries (if any) will ensure that national excemptions to this stupid EU rule are put in place??

I just saw on the German "Wild und Hund" website, that a movement is under way in Germany to ensure that a national excemption is put in place. But who is to say this is successful? Or who is to say that all countries put such excemptions in place??

Why does Brussel insist on sticking its nose in matters that is of no concern to it?? Case in point: in Switzerland (and other countries?), we used to have a fairly workable system where travelling sportsmen could bring home their harvest from abroad. All that was needed was an import license, which was easily obtainable. No sweat. Anglers happily brought home self caught salmon and halibut from Alaska. I used to bring home venison when I went hunting in the US, etc etc.

These days, Switzerland has adopted EU rules for imports, which makes it is next to impossible to import such goods. Now my meat (or the angler's salmon) has to have an official certification from the country of orgin. Try finding anybody who will issue such a certificate in rural MT or AK...

Even if, by some miracle, you manage to produce the documentation necessary, now it is no longer possible for the travelling sportsman to personally take his frozen salmon through Customs. Instead, he must employ (transport) companies who are licensed to show your wares to the veterinarian. Not that the actual checks have changed, the veterinarian will probably look at the fish/meat and decide whether it is still frozen, but (as transport companies go), you can be pretty sure there will be a hefty bill of many positions... Just not worth it any longer.

It is still possible to bring in game shot outside of Switzerland, but then it has to arrive in the hide. Not very practical for transport by scheduled air flight...

Curse on the EU, and curse on redtape making life increasingly difficult for no reason!

- mike


*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
 
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Another reason to have a 30/06 and pick up ammo at the far end.....


Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you....
 
Posts: 1484 | Location: Northern Ireland | Registered: 19 February 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
Another reason to have a 30/06 and pick up ammo at the far end.....


A convert are we, all of a sudden? You 270 turncoat!!
 
Posts: 2360 | Location: London | Registered: 31 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Ah, the zeal of the convert...

I actually had a fair bit of bother to pick up 270 ammo in the Czech Rep a few years ago, had to get a friend of ours to send it from France to the outfitter in CZ.

We you live in NI, you can't take ammo through Dublin, pain in the ass.


Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you....
 
Posts: 1484 | Location: Northern Ireland | Registered: 19 February 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:

We you live in NI, you can't take ammo through Dublin, pain in the ass.


only if you're really desperate.
 
Posts: 2360 | Location: London | Registered: 31 May 2003Reply With Quote
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LOL! I'd like to see the new Xrays of that!
 
Posts: 669 | Location: Alberta Canada | Registered: 18 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Explains the questions about moly coating, though I would stay away from hollow points.
 
Posts: 2360 | Location: London | Registered: 31 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
I actually had a fair bit of bother to pick up 270 ammo in the Czech Rep a few years ago, had to get a friend of ours to send it from France to the outfitter in CZ.


Good job it was .270, and not 30-06.
 
Posts: 166 | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by wildboar:
I've always used the car instead of air transport, when travelling for hunting/stalking (unfortunately few times); I find air companies overweight fares ridiculously high and I like to bring along a lot of stuff. That EU rule (if correct) will enforce my opinion.


With you all the way in regards using the car over the plane. It also makes for a far more relaxed and enjoyable hunting trip.

A few years ago a friend and myself did a round trip of just over 5,000 miles by road to go hunt varmints over in the US. All I can say was it was fantastic, and thoroughly enjoyable.

Take as much kit as you like even the dogs, stop when you want to stop, go when and where you want to go, plenty of leg and elbow room , great food, no Neanderthal thieving baggage handlers chucking your kit around or dipping your bags, and no mean faced airline employee telling you that you can't smoke your after dinner cigar on the aircraft or anywhere else for that matter.

What's not to like?
 
Posts: 166 | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With Quote
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One can´t bloody well drive a car to Africa for a 14 days safari.
And for me driving my car 900 km to catch a ferry to Newcastle to attend a UK/Scotland stalking weekend is out of the question.
Air transport is the only option, sadly but true.


Arild Iversen.



 
Posts: 1881 | Location: Southern Coast of Norway. | Registered: 02 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of SIKA98K
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quote:
Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:


We you live in NI, you can't take ammo through Dublin, pain in the ass.

Expand on that one a bit Brian.
We [us in the South] don,t have a problem taking ammo through Dublin airport.Well no more than any other airport.The checkin staff havent a bulls notion about air transport of firearms.Usually I print off the advisories from Aer Lingus,website and show them that.
Going back 10 years I used to pack a box of 20 in a pair of socks,place them inside my boots and pack them in my rucksack.
Now we have to put the ammo in locked containers and check them in but no real grief.
 
Posts: 458 | Location: Ireland | Registered: 12 May 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
One can´t bloody well drive a car to Africa for a 14 days safari.
And for me driving my car 900 km to catch a ferry to Newcastle to attend a UK/Scotland stalking weekend is out of the question.
Air transport is the only option, sadly but true.


I can see how it might cramp your style a tad.

You'd just have to use what was there. Most PH can and will provide a suitable armoury for their paying guests. Not the same as using your own cannon I know but it gets over the airline problems, and means you can fill the luggage weight with other bits.
 
Posts: 166 | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by SIKA98K:
quote:
Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:


We you live in NI, you can't take ammo through Dublin, pain in the ass.

Expand on that one a bit Brian.
We [us in the South] don,t have a problem taking ammo through Dublin airport.Well no more than any other airport.The checkin staff havent a bulls notion about air transport of firearms.Usually I print off the advisories from Aer Lingus,website and show them that.
Going back 10 years I used to pack a box of 20 in a pair of socks,place them inside my boots and pack them in my rucksack.
Now we have to put the ammo in locked containers and check them in but no real grief.


Angus, I currently do not have a ROI FAC, let it lapse when the Donegal syndicate went pear shaped. Therefore, when travelling through Dublin I have to apply for a temporary "permit to pass through the state", this is very easy to get, the Dept of Justice in Dublin will send me one based on a phone call, they are great. The only problem is that the temporary ticket applies to the rifle only, specifically does not extend to ammo, I just cannot bring ammo with this ticket. Now, I know I could probably wing it without bother, play stupid or whatever, but I have not risked it.

I have to say that Dublin is one of the easier airports to carry firearms through, I have always found it to be quick and easy. The other best one is Frankfurt. The London airports are a total nightmare. Some of the Eastern European airports are getting to be a pain also. The check in staff at Zagreb tried to extort excess baggage fees of the guys last year, even though these had already been paid for.


Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you....
 
Posts: 1484 | Location: Northern Ireland | Registered: 19 February 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
I have to say that Dublin is one of the easier airports to carry firearms through, I have always found it to be quick and easy. The other best one is Frankfurt. The London airports are a total nightmare. Some of the Eastern European airports are getting to be a pain also. The check in staff at Zagreb tried to extort excess baggage fees of the guys last year, even though these had already been paid for.


More and more airlines are also starting to charge for transport of firearms, even when your luggage (including firearms) does NOT exceed your free limit (20 kg on most Euro flights).

It is just one thing after the next:
- yesterday: increased "security" controls if you travel with firearms,
- today: added fees for travel with firearms,
- tomorrow: no ammo in checked luggage because of new, stupid EU rule.

You'll excuse me for feeling slightly paranoid as a travelling sportsman!! One senseless restriction after the next, and where is it going to end??

- mike


*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
 
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I just talked to the Norwegian Civil Aviation Authority, and they were aware of the problem.
They were in the process of developing new national regulations, and I got optimistic. Got the distinct impression that for domestic flights things will generally be as before.
Of course Norway is not a member of the EU and only bound to them by various treaties, so its probably a little easier for us to make the exception.
He, of course, could not speak for other countries.
 
Posts: 74 | Location: Norway | Registered: 10 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of SIKA98K
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
quote:
Originally posted by SIKA98K:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:


We you live in NI, you can't take ammo through Dublin, pain in the ass.



Angus, when travelling through Dublin I have to apply for a temporary "permit to pass through the state", this is very easy to get, the Dept of Justice in Dublin will send me one based on a phone call, they are great. The only problem is that the temporary ticket applies to the rifle only, specifically does not extend to ammo, I just cannot bring ammo with this ticket.


Ah okay,I know some of the Northern trapshooters had this arrangement.I just didn,t know it only applied to the firearms and not to ammo.
Long term I suppose we will just have to ensure the same brand/bullet weight is available at the other end.
By then the thought police will have dreamt something else up.
Easy airport to travel through ? It has got to be Oslo.I went through the red channel,3 uniforms drinking coffee in an adjacent office.Hi,I,uh,have a firearm with me. Ok. Don,t you want to see my European Firearms Pass ?
No because obviously you have it and its in order.Have a good hunt
On the way out my gun was just checked in,easy peasy.
 
Posts: 458 | Location: Ireland | Registered: 12 May 2004Reply With Quote
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I've just read this:

http://www.armietiro.it/lrsquo...cardquo-le-munizioni

It states that after April 29, ammos will indeed no longer be allowed on board EU aircraft. Some euro MP will try to get some derogations in order to defend the rights of hunters and shooters.....
 
Posts: 1459 | Location: north-west Italy | Registered: 16 April 2002Reply With Quote
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