I currently have a bit too much redundancy in the armoury for my needs, and I am considering ditching my moderated Howa. This would leave me with a combi gun that cannot feasibly be moderated, and a traditional bolt action rifle with open sights, that I would rather not moderate.

I am wondering then, how much not having a moderator is likely to be a problem? My current shooting arrangements mean it is not, but the next few years looks to be a time of geographical uncertainty so I can't speak for the future with certainty. I have heard tales of estates and landowners insisting on moderated rifles, and wondered how common this is in the experience of AR members? How many of you soldier on succesfully without a moderated CF rifle?

Personally I would not consider having an un-moderated rifle only for the amount of hearing damage it saves you from.

I am looking for a 2nd Howa though what calibre is yours?

I think that they are an abomination, unbalance the gun, reduce the believed velocity, incur (or legally should do) more money to the Proof Houses and quite frankly look bl**dy awful.

A result of the obsession with imported American magnum cartridges in ridiculous stupidly short barrel lengths of 22". Or of trying to get "factory" velocity in said barrels from "classic" cartridges designed around 24", 25" or 26" barrels.

If you don't like noise and blast, use a lighter load, a lesser cartridge, a longer barrel, wear modern ear protectors or take up field archery. The hearing damage argument is overdone. It is range practice that cause the damage mostly. Wear muffs!

I see it oftem on the UK "Guntrader" sight. Rifles cut down to 21" or less 18" often to accomodate a "can". I really do wonder if these rifles then are actually Deer Act legal in terms of velocity.

They also render the rifle useless for use with iron sights. No doubt it will come to everybody having to use these things...no doubt BDS will make a pronouncement...and then numbers of classic British stalking rifles will be rendered scrap or be barred from use.

I have heard rumours that the FC may start requiring all stalkers to use T8 mods including those who lease stalking from them

I believe the T8 is the only mod that has been tested and passed for use by FC Rangers on their "company rifles" and that their use is becomming manditory for the Rangers..

There manditory use by on stalkers on FC is supposedly down to liability concernes on a Health and Safety basis...Whether is will eventually come about or whether common sense will prevail, I dont know...

Whilst agreeing with all the points mentioned by ES - I would not be without a moderated option in my cabinet.

Currently, I seem to rotate through a stainless/syth 30cal where I think I may get wet or reach out a bit, a moderated low velocity .270 for my more 'sensitive' shoots or the 7mm Drilling for woodland stalking.

The .22 and .375 are specific and get taken out as needed - whilst the .308 'varmint weight' tends to be the closet queen of all my hardware.

Not too much redundancy in my case!

Mind you - ever considered that you may be considering dumping the wrong bolt action?

Rgds Ian

I have been looking into the new type of ear plugs which 'close' when there is loud noise, but allow normal conversation / hearing at other times. The ones I have seen look like some sort of smallish hearing aid / mobile phone / "Borg" implant.

I read the UK military is looking into these types of hearing protectors for Afghanistan and Iraq due to battle hearing loss versus ambush risk during patrols.

While I agree that they do indeed spoil the looks of any rifle they are an essential tool in the deer stalkers arsenal. I personally will not take on any level 2 stalking without a moderated weapon, the individual is entitled to do whatever he pleases when out stalking alone, but there are others to take into account.
There is also the environmental impact of an unsilenced rifle.
We played the H&S card for the use of these moderators when we had been refused by the FLO's
I know feel that perhaps that H&S legislation may bite us all in the backside.

regards
griff

I do agree that Mods spoil the appearance and handling of a rifle, particularly a nice timber / blued rifle.

However, there is no doubt they make a deer rifle easier to shoot for the vast majority of us. Here in N Ireland, the country areas are quite densely populated, you are rarely more than 300-400metres from someone's house. A mod is a big help in minimising disturbance.

The less impact we have on the rural environment the better as far as I am concerned.

In my first post I just said about the hearing damage it saves me from.
ES may well shoot more rounds on the range than at deer but for me one day this is not so, in just 1 day last week I shot 30 deer so to say that shooting deer doesn’t do any hearing damage is naive.

The other advantages are reduced disturbance, increased accuracy, reduced recoil meaning it is easier to see the strike, easier to hear the strike and less disturbance to nearby deer are just a few of the advantages.

If you are concerned about looks then you can get moderators that look no different than a heavy barrel, such as the one below.

I'm pretty confident that the Howa is going Ian, as we discussed the damn things turns into a lump of rust at the slightest opportunity; despite my mob-taught tendancy to slather oil over everything in sight!

I want to keep my Interarms, as its a beautiful rifle and has some sentimental value; I am investigating the possibility of having it rechambered to 7x57 to further simplify the arsenal, and as I am increasingly impressed by that as both a versatile and nostalgic calibre. (In the short term I will download it in 7mm RemMag)

One option would be to have the foresight shifted back slightly and the muzzle screwcut ahead of the sight, and then a not-over-the-barrel mod could be attached (ASE ultra?) when needed, and a muzzle cap the rest of the time.

Just to add to the point about proximity to habitation.Where people are forcefully made aware of your activities by the noise you make, they often feel obliged to comment or even interfere.
Sometimes its better in the long run to remain discrete and avoid these issues arising for the landowner than to force them to confront them and risk the outcome.

I think they are definitely becoming the norm, at least down here in the overpopulated South.

I share land with a few other stalkers and the non-hunting farmers have often commented that 'someone' with an unmoderated rifle often wakes them with a jolt on Saturday mornings etc etc.

Sure they're ugly as sin, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me. Also, I started getting more doubles once I started using a moderator...

I am surprised they are not becoming legalised in other EU countries, where they are often seen as a poacher's tool.

quote:

i am surprised they are not becoming legalised in other EU countries, where they are often seen as a poacher's tool.

i think it is because they are used as just that.

in denmark there are no deer, that are considered vermin. All stalking is reconized as a respectable passtime, so the animals has value and hunting them is not considered a bad thing.(we dont have as many radicals here)

just think that if you have to moderate your rifles, then the next thing will be the pheasant drives, so you all have to use those gasthly pump guns with a 2 liter coke can on . on the other hand FB might have to sell me his shotgun at a very low price.

best regards

peter

p.s. i forgot you cant have pump guns, so single shots for you all with moderators on(im sure the balance will be REAL GOOD)

We can have pump guns and semi-autos too

quote:

just think that if you have to moderate your rifles, then the next thing will be the pheasant drives, so you all have to use those gasthly pump guns with a 2 liter coke can on . on the other hand FB might have to sell me his shotgun at a very low price.

There is no danger of this happening and remeber a shotgun is nowhere near as loud as a full bore rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon2:

quote:

just think that if you have to moderate your rifles, then the next thing will be the pheasant drives, so you all have to use those gasthly pump guns with a 2 liter coke can on . on the other hand FB might have to sell me his shotgun at a very low price.

There is no danger of this happening and remeber a shotgun is nowhere near as loud as a full bore rifle.

my remark was a bit tounge in cheek, but now that you mention it, i can hear the difference between a shotgun and a rifle but i dont find the rifles report louder(and i shoot pretty big rifles)
what makes you state a thing like this.

best regards

peter

It isn't travelling at as high a velocity.

i have 22's that travel faster than my shotgun's pellets. but you can hardly hear them. are you sure about your facts here ?

best regards

peter

off the top of my head 12 gauge will be traveling at circa 1200 feet and an average full bore rifle around 3000 feet.

The difference is obvious to me when out in the field without doing any research else where.

quote:

just think that if you have to moderate your rifles, then the next thing will be the pheasant drives, so you all have to use those gasthly pump guns with a 2 liter coke can on

quote:

There is no danger of this happening

They said this about lead shot, about the two shot restriction on semi-autos that came in under the 1991 Wildlife Act, about, before that, the making permanent of the ban on certain geese etc., etc.

Wait and see, wait and see. Already there are moves to have this be done at certain clay grounds.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

just think that if you have to moderate your rifles, then the next thing will be the pheasant drives, so you all have to use those gasthly pump guns with a 2 liter coke can on

quote:

There is no danger of this happening

They said this about lead shot, about the two shot restriction on semi-autos that came in under the 1991 Wildlife Act, about, before that, the making permanent of the ban on certain geese etc., etc.

Wait and see, wait and see. Already there are moves to have this be done at certain clay grounds.

ES dont tell me you have uneathed some dastardly plot by the BDS to make it so

I doubt it!

But what is of concern is that many of these things then gain an impetus all of their own.

The same as the attempts to mandate that any person stalking has one of the BDS Certificates.

One tries to be "too clever" with our Game Laws, using them to advance another agenda etc., at one's peril.

They are not BDS certificates but then you knew that anyway

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
They are not BDS certificates but then you knew that anyway

Yes. I had meant to type DSC but was thinking of something else.

It is possibe to make up a moderated rifle that balances well and carries nicely. Give it a really good trigger and you'll be wanting it in your hands when the shooting gets truly challenging.

BUT moderated rifles are not quiet enough to avoid damaging hearing.

I use the aforementioned electronic ear plugs with my moderated rifles and electronic muffs with my unmoderated rifles. After 10years of using those digital ear plugs I have found that despite the fact I have normal hearing (I get an annual test) I get a lot of tinnitus if I use them with unmoderated rifles now)

I tend to use moderated rifles in woodland etc where there will be fleeting opportunities and no time to mess around. In spot and stalk territory it is very little inconvenience to spot a deer, don your electronic ear muffs and stalk in.

Funny you should mention that 1894, I too use EMTEC plugs with my moderated rifles = no ringing. I still get hearing damage with unmoderated rifles and plugs though.

That is why I thought more EU hunters would want moderators legalised, rather than to appease neighbours.

quote:

Originally posted by 63:
I'm pretty confident that the Howa is going Ian, as we discussed the damn things turns into a lump of rust at the slightest opportunity; despite my mob-taught tendancy to slather oil over everything in sight!

I want to keep my Interarms, as its a beautiful rifle and has some sentimental value; I am investigating the possibility of having it rechambered to 7x57 to further simplify the arsenal, and as I am increasingly impressed by that as both a versatile and nostalgic calibre. (In the short term I will download it in 7mm RemMag)

One option would be to have the foresight shifted back slightly and the muzzle screwcut ahead of the sight, and then a not-over-the-barrel mod could be attached (ASE ultra?) when needed, and a muzzle cap the rest of the time.

I have a Howa stain less 7mm it took about five minutes to go rusty everywhere, my Sako blue on wood has zero rust, they both get the same weather.

My sako used to be like that but now goes rusty if it see a weather focast for rain.

I am thinking about having it Duracoated.

Stainless steel is not rustless steel because it is...well...steel. Nor is a refrigerator a magic device that suspends time so that food keeps for ever. As I used to remind my wife, mother, girlfriend at regular intervals.

Two sad facts of life. Indeed "blue" because it is in fact a controlled form of rusting is probably more resistant to rust especially as it is on a polished surface. If you want a better rustless stainless steel? Polish it.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Stainless steel is not rustless steel because it is...well...steel. Nor is a refrigerator a magic device that suspends time so that food keeps for ever. As I used to remind my wife, mother, girlfriend at regular intervals.

Two sad facts of life. Indeed "blue" because it is in fact a controlled form of rusting is probably more resistant to rust especially as it is on a polished surface. If you want a better rustless stainless steel? Polish it.

As I wrote in my post "stain less" in fact means it's supposed to stain less rather than be stainless, Howa is probably ferritic stain less or maybe martensitic with additions of molybdenum / vanadium

DJM,
you didn't think I was going to bite on the Duracoat remark did you!!

regards
griff

No why,

Is there something I should know.

I am Persona non grata at certain places these days

I nearly rang you this morning to see if I could pick up some wipe out on the way back down from the North but as it was we came passed at about 05.30 so would not have been welcome.

Plus I dont want Man Flu

Now PM me if you want but I really need to know if it is worth getting the action Duracoated?

DJM,
The duracoat thread on SD got quite heated so Admin locked it, and threatened everyone with expulsion.No change there then!
6.5x55 was adamant that Duracoat from the States was the same as duracoat from Homebase, when we tried to point out that there was no way in hell it was the same, admin blocked the whole thread.
Thought you might of being referring to the thread.
jon2 had some rings duracoated from a firm in Huddersfield, looked very good, time will tell the durability of the finish..
regards
griff

I first thought, you wanted to gey rid of Pete E !!!!