Hello to all out there! I'm relatively new to the forms here but have read the posts with years with great wonderment and admiration for the sportmen around the world. I just ordered the book published by Sporting Classics entitled "European Hunter" to learn as much as I can about the hunting opportunities (and costs) in Europe. I am currently working on my Master's of Science in Cultural Resource Management (archaeology) in Washington, USA. That being said, I'm obviously not wealthy but I do live to hunt deer, elk, bear, waterfowl, upland birds, cougar, etc. here in the states and have made it to Southern Africa a couple times.

My question is, is there a destination (Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Macedonia, etc.) and an outfitter or hunting club that could offer a combo hunt for the above species, for only representative trophies for cheaper than the hunters who request the redcarpet treatment? Maybe cancellation hunts, or discount hunts for guys like me who will sleep in a tent rather than a house and will eat dehydrated food instead of 5-course meals. Any leads would be appreciated. I would love to hunt Europe sometime but the services that I've contacted are talking a minimum of 10K for chamois and roe deer. I wouldn't hunt a high-fence deer in America and I don't hunt introduced animals here either (except for pheasant, chukar, and partridge, which I love hunting over my springer spaniel!)

I live to do the Do-it-yourself, solo, backpack, high country hunts here in the States, so physical difficulty would not be an issue.
Thanks again guys and I love looking at your photos, reading your stories, and learning of the rich European hunting traditions.

Pm's are more than welcome as well.

Get to the UK and it really is not a problem to get onto Roe, Red, Fallow, Muntjac, Chinese Water deer in a short period of time. Possibly Sika as well. Costings can be very reasonable if you are interested in representative heads rather than trophies.

Offering swap hunting is always the best way to do things.

Good luck

Rgds Ian

What sort of budget do you have in mind - reason I ask is only to assess what lattitude there may be regarding species.

Chamois is always pretty pricey, roe buck hunting especially in the East of Germany, the Baltics or in Poland is a much less costly alternative.

The costly part here is not the lodging but the hunting itself.

My recommendation for affordable roe buck hunts in Germany would be the state forest administration. To arrange this is however not as simple as booking with an agent who takes care of everything.

PM me if you are interested in details.

Ian missed some points worth considering:
With the exchange rate of Sterling at an all time low V@V the Euro etc, The UK is probably very good value at the moment, offers an extremely wide range of huntable species and not much in the way of language problems.

But Dave - we don't speak American!!

An excellent point though, to someone dealing in USD, hunting in the UK is currently available at a 40% discount on last year!

Rgds Ian

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
But Dave - we don't speak American!!

An excellent point though, to someone dealing in USD, hunting in the UK is currently available at a 40% discount on last year!

Rgds Ian

Indeed except that the number of quality operations is limited and they are experiencing a glut of bookings from Europe and the US. Expect prices to rise accordingly.

I'm heading off to South America this fall so the earliest I would be able to afford to do any trip would be in 2010. Hunting in England doesn't really interest me do to the fact that most big game is introduced. I mean not to offend anyone, but I would rather hunt game native to the area, if given the choice. I don't know what my exact budget will be yet. I will have to take out a loan but hunting is my life passion (wife says obsession). I have no idea about foreigners obtain hunting licenses in the US but I would be willing to trade a hunt for sure. I'm an avid salmon, trout, and steehead fisherman and I specialize in mule deer hunting. Washington State is not considered a great mule deer state but I always see numerous bucks almost everyday. The other hunts that are available over the counter without drawings (as is with some species such as moose and Mt. goat)that I can assure an almost 99% shot opportunity at representative trophies are black bear, turkey, whitetail deer, and Cascade blacktail deer. Rocky Mountain elk tags are available over the counter for the westslope of the cascades, but they have to have 3 points or better per side to be legal, and finding a legal bull within the week long season is not an easy task given the temperate rainforests that they inhabit. The mule deer country I hunt is not too difficult on the private lands, but the public land mule deer hunts are extremely physical hunts, to be compared with goat and sheep hunting. Duck and upland bird hunting (3 species of grouse) are easy to arrange and I have access to vast acreage of both public and private lands across the majority of the state. (I am lucky enough to be able to be shooting ducks and pheasant within twenty minutes of getting out of class.) The seasons are all different and many overlap so if anyone out there is interested in a trade I would love to know. A combo hunt/fish trip would be easy to arrange as well.

I dream to hunt roe deer, red deer, ibex, chamois, fallow deer, boar,and mouflon sheep some day before my hunting trips are a thing of the past. I figure if I don't start researching now, it will always be just a dream.

Any other info or suggestions on a "cheaper" hunt would be appreciated. Thank you to all who have helped me already.

Wamuley,

I understad what you say but realistically The Roe, Red and Fallow deer are indiginous with the Fallow being the only Grey area having been introduced in Norman times.

To give you an idea though I was looking at the possibility of putting on an AR weekend in October during the Fallow Rut. The idea would be the hunt deer on Friday evening and saturday mng, and follow the morning stalk with breakfast then some driven pheasant duck and partridges. The shooting is excellent and I would expect to shoot easily 90-100 head of game.

Total cost for this would be something in the region of £350 with no trophy fees and saturdays dinner included, just a tip for the keeper required of about £20. You could tie this in with a couple of other cheap hunts and really not stretch yourself financially at all. Firearms & ammunition are easily imported and flights are not really that expensive.

I just think the UK is really worth considering if you are on a budget.

Rgds,
K

Chinese Water Deer, Reeves Muntjac and Sika were all originally escapees in the UK from Deer Parks and collections but don't run away with the idea that they are easy meat for the hunter.
They have all occupied sectors of habitat very similar to that which they originated in.

Species like Pheasants and Partridges have to be topped up and encouraged every year to provide attractive sporting densities but all of the deer species, whether you consider them wild or feral, achieved their present population levels more in spite of man than because of him.

You've got to be good to get onto them.

Hello
A combo of all these species is difficult (nearly impossible).
10k for chamois and red deer are really to much, this could be enough for maybe all together.
I can give you adresses for good hunting opportunitis all over europe. No problem.

edit: I send you a pm



regards

caracal

a STAG, ROE, MOUFFLON, CHAMOIS Combo is easily doable in Gap in the French Alps.

Here is the Adress :

ONF (National Forest Service)

René WITTMANN (Boss, a nice and capable guy)

5, rue des Silos

05007 GAP Cedex
FRANCE


Phone 334.92.53.19.82 - Fax 334.92.53.19.60



Cerf - Chevreuil - Sanglier - Mouflon - Chamois.
Bécasse - Lièvre. (Stag, roe, boar, moufflon, chamois, woodcock, hare)
Chasse en battue, au Mirador, à l’approche, devant soi et à l’arc (driven hunt, highstand, approach, upland hunting and bow hunting.

For what I have experienced :

moufflon 1.0-2.2 K $
roe < 1K
boar <<< 1K
chamois 1.5-2.5 K$
stag 2-10K $

In my opinion, a 10K$ combo is possible. Day fee 250$, lodging <50$ a day.

I can check what precisely are the 2009 trophy fees, what I mention is a gross estimation.

I second Jean's suggestion; a couple of friends went to Gap 2-3 years ago for mouflon and chamois hunting and were really pleased; one of them went there several times. Have a look:

http://www.onf.fr/activites_na...219-413416/2/files/7

Thanks again for the suggests and info. I didn't mean that I wanted to do a hunt for all the species that I listed, however I would like to hunt them all at some point in my life.

It sounds like England is the place go for the budget minded. I would love to do a fallow, roe buck, and stag hunt for the smaller sized trophies to keep the price down. Then in a few years go for the chamois and mouflon. Or whatever works out first.

I would love to host someone from Europe if anyone is interested let me know and I can email them some pictures. The great thing about it is that my family owns good hunting properties and so do my friends. I also am very good at hunting the million something acres of public lands in the State I don't mean to brag or sound arrogant, but I usually pass up a dozen or two legal mule deer bucks (3 pt. per side or better) before I take one. Last season my deer had 6 points on his left side and 9 on his right. Licenses are cheap and sold over-the-counter, meaning that there is no lottery and tags are unlimited (but only one deer per person per year). I kick myself for not taking more over the years but I'm getting better and getting the camera out more often.
If anyone could suggest some more contacts I would love to check them out.

Wamuley

Living in the UK, I am obviously biased! However, after looking at hunting costs and game availability elsewhere,, it is very apparent that the UK gives a lot of bang for your buck.

You can easily put together a hunt for Red/Roe/Fallow within a few hours drive of London. Having said that, Fallow often coincide with the Muntjac - and CWD are available within an hour of your arrival airport. Would seem a shame not to take advantage of everything that is available, especially as the smaller deer are not huntable elsewhere! These would all be free range animals as opposed to park or penned beasts.

I would be surprised if you could not arrange a truly extraordinary and memorable hunt for less than 5k excluding flights! As mentioned, doing this on a swap basis is the way to proceed. Certainly, talk to me closer to the time and it would be a simple thing to arrange.

Chamois and Mouflon are not generally 'cheap' wherever you find them. I would tend to look at that as a combo hunt for the future.

Rgds Ian

did you get my pm? just send me an email.

quote:

Originally posted by wamuley:
I'm heading off to South America this fall so the earliest I would be able to afford to do any trip would be in 2010. Hunting in England doesn't really interest me do to the fact that most big game is introduced. I mean not to offend anyone, but I would rather hunt game native to the area, if given the choice. I don't know what my exact budget will be yet. I will have to take out a loan but hunting is my life passion (wife says obsession). I have no idea about foreigners obtain hunting licenses in the US but I would be willing to trade a hunt for sure. I'm an avid salmon, trout, and steehead fisherman and I specialize in mule deer hunting. Washington State is not considered a great mule deer state but I always see numerous bucks almost everyday. The other hunts that are available over the counter without drawings (as is with some species such as moose and Mt. goat)that I can assure an almost 99% shot opportunity at representative trophies are black bear, turkey, whitetail deer, and Cascade blacktail deer. Rocky Mountain elk tags are available over the counter for the westslope of the cascades, but they have to have 3 points or better per side to be legal, and finding a legal bull within the week long season is not an easy task given the temperate rainforests that they inhabit. The mule deer country I hunt is not too difficult on the private lands, but the public land mule deer hunts are extremely physical hunts, to be compared with goat and sheep hunting. Duck and upland bird hunting (3 species of grouse) are easy to arrange and I have access to vast acreage of both public and private lands across the majority of the state. (I am lucky enough to be able to be shooting ducks and pheasant within twenty minutes of getting out of class.) The seasons are all different and many overlap so if anyone out there is interested in a trade I would love to know. A combo hunt/fish trip would be easy to arrange as well.

I dream to hunt roe deer, red deer, ibex, chamois, fallow deer, boar,and mouflon sheep some day before my hunting trips are a thing of the past. I figure if I don't start researching now, it will always be just a dream.

Any other info or suggestions on a "cheaper" hunt would be appreciated. Thank you to all who have helped me already.

As others have said you possibly have the wrong impression about British hunting (we do it in Wales, Scotland and Ireland as well as England). Sure there are hunts inside enclosures, mostly for red and fallow deer, just like in the USA, but most hunting is for free ranging wild deer.

Red deer and roe deer have been wild in the British countryside for as long if not longer than your native animals have been wild in the USA. Fallow deer have only been wild for about 1,000 years and the relative newcomers are sika, muntjac and chinese water deer have only been loose for about 100 years.

Make no mistake these are very wild animals and are as hard to get close to as your wild deer. A lot of our deer hunting would be very similar to hunting whitetail deer in the farming areas of the USA.

The main differences are that 1) the average densities of deer are probably higher in the UK; 2) most hunting is on private land and so it is inherently safer; 3) for the same reason the deer are more closely managed and you will be told exactly which animal you can shoot by your guide; 4) our seasons are much longer for example the season for most male deer is seven or eight months long; and 5) given the small size of the country there are no long treks in and out of hunting country, the longest journey is in Scottish red deer stalking where you might walk for several hours and climb several thousand feet followed by a crawl through wet heather to get a shot.

On most hunts you can borrow a rifle and no licence is needed.

We also have excellent fishing for atlantic salmon, brown and rainbow trout as well as grayling and sea run browns. The UK is of course the home of dry fly fishing. Their seasons overlap with stalking for most species, at least to some extent. The best salmon and grayling fishing is about the same time as the red, sika and fallow rut,and the best brown trout fishing is during the roe buck season. Fishing costs from $20 to $300 per day depending on where you are in the country.

I think I may have had the wrong impression about hunting in England. Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess from all the magazines showing estate hunts with gentlemen in their tweed I've been jaded into thinking that England offers canned hunting for the rich. I'm glad to hear I'm wrong.

I have a feeling that not too many European hunters would be excited to hunt where there is not the numbers of game that are on estates. Like I said before, if anyone wants to do a whitetail, mule deer, or blacktail hunt that is easily combined with black bear here in Washington State, I can almost promise 100% shot opportunity on a trophy sized animals. You have to be in "sheep shape" to enjoy the high-country mule deer/ bear hunt, but I can always find easier to get bucks on private property. The drawback is that you don't get a mountain hunt and I love hunting the mountains. Hence the desire to chase chamois.

Wamuley,

do you spot any tweed?







I will let you in on a secret too, at least one on the last pic lives stateside.

The UK is a all things considered smaller island then most other places, the upside of that is that the huntable areas are closer, the downside is that, well just that.

As far as my limited experience goes, there are no trips in to the great unknown when you go stalking in the UK.

The huge upside are the great people you meet and the experiences that you share.

Best regards Chris

Wamuley,

Forgive me for taking this OT, I did not understand this clearly '' tags are unlimited (but only one deer per person per year)''. Could you please explain? Thank you.

Best-
Locksley.

No problem RobinOLocksley.

I guess my wording doesn't really make sense. Here in Washington State, all wildlife is owned by the individual State (as opposed to the property owner or the Federal gov't) until legally taken into an individuals possession. Every state has it's own laws and a lot of people don't bother hunting because of the complexity of the laws. Many would claim that a panel of lawyers are needed to make sense of the regulations, which are changed on a yearly basis. In Washington State, any person meeting some basic requirements (i.e. age, hunter education, non-felon, etc.) may purchase a deer hunting license over-the-counter. In almost every other state, you must first be drawn from a lottery before you are able to hunt deer.
For instance: In Idaho, you have to be drawn from a lottery to hunt mule deer in some, high demand Game Management Units, in other areas, licenses are available on a first come first served basis. There might be 1000 deer permits available and when those thousand permits have been bought up, no one else is allowed to purchase a permit. In Washington, there is no cap on the number of deer permits available during the general season (which translates into crowded public hunting, as a general rule), but you may only legally harvest one deer per year per person (with exceptions of course). In states such as Arizona, an individual may have to apply for a deer license for decades hoping that one day they might be drawn, which costs a lot of money and you can never plan a trip in advance unless you are willing to spend thousands (and in some cases hundreds of thousands) of dollars for a guaranteed outfitter, landowner, or auction tag. If someone wanted to hunt with me in my state, they can just go to the store before a hunt and buy the appropriate license, without having to wait the outcome of a lottery (I think it is the only state left in the entire West that allows anyone to hunt mule deer without a drawing). General season Bear, whitetail/blacktail deer, elk, turkey, and cougar permits operate the same way in Washington. On the other hand, special elk, bear, deer permits, as well as mountain goat, moose, and bighorn sheep require a lottery drawing first (with the odds of successfully drawing being less than 1 out of 1000 in many cases) If this seems confusing to anyone, don't worry, you are not alone. I am a very dedicated hunter and know the regulations inside and out; I've even had to correct game wardens as to what is legal and what is not.

Wamuley,

Getting an idea for the type of hunting that you enjoy, you should get in touch with some of the Scottish estates, and get some info on the hind stalking.

This is about as wilderness as it gets and the "Hill" can be anything from a slight incline to a sheer face.

I think this might be right up your street,

FB

My explanation of the game laws is a gross generalization of course. Like I said, the laws are developed on a state by state basis. There are agencies that will put you in the drawings you want for about $50 a species. In other words, if I wanted to hunt Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep in the Lower 48, a service (such as huntnfool or Cabella's Tags) will research the best areas state by state and then put you in a lottery for Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, Wyoming, Arizona, etc. They front the cash for the drawing (which adds up quickly if applying for multiple states) and charge you the full cost of the tag only if you draw. Since the odds are sometimes less than 1 out of 1000, you might get drawn within 10 years of building up bonus and/or preference points. I can't afford such services, so I research the laws and the best units to apply for within an individual state on my own. Publications such as Easman's Hunting Journal help narrow the search for out-of-state hunters. I will have to front thousands of dollars to state game departments, which is refunded, minus processing fees if unsuccessful. Hope that helps a little.

Not all states are drawing-only for deer. Most whitetail tags in the East can just be bought at the store. What sucks is that in almost every state, the game departments charge ten times the amount for a non-resident license as a resident would pay.

Low budget in the UK would mean bed and breakfast accomodation and hunting does/hinds with someone.

IMHO it is not possible to hunt chamois on a limited budget unless you have great contacts. The licences and guide fees alone add up. Even a yearling chamois is quite expensive.

Hunting 2 on 1 (ie one acting as observer and porter) it was hard to get a 7 day trip with 4 days hunting, one in hand in case of blanks and a day either side for travel plus a yearling chamois and mouflon for less than £2k each. I don't know how the dollar is against the pound but that price is now 40% more expensive for me due to the devaluation of the pound against the Euro.

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Fallow being the only Grey area having been introduced in Norman times.

It's my understanding that the likely period of introduction was at the time of Roman occupation.
Though I could be wrong, I know I was earlier to day on another matter, 'cause my wife told me so.

Oldun,

I've never been much of a historian , but I think they were introduced by people with a penchant for funny head gear.... so I think you might be right!!



FB

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
but I think they were introduced by people with a penchant for funny head gear....



FB

oh you mean christians(vikings dident wear horns sorry)

on a more serius note then yes from what i read then late viking early norman period for your fallow deer.

best

peter

Why do the Danes witter on about having in their dark and distant past invaded England?

It's because the only other thing they are known for is mouldy cheese.

Rubbish!

Peter Schmeichel and emergency cornershop bacon are two great Danish exports we are grateful for.

And a few other Danish specialities that I won't go into any further..

Regards,

Amir