I am planning a European hunt. I am very confused by the different scoring systems. With the price of the trophy varying so dramatically based on the size of the trophy, I am looking for some way to gauge the differences. This is very critical to budgeting and planning.

For example, being an SCI measurer, I have a very good idea what a 300 point SCI red stag looks like. But how does a 7.0kg trophy compare? What about CIC scores?

Does anyone have pictures of the same set of antlers measured under the different methods? This would be highly educational for any of us Americans interested in hunting Europe.

Thanks.

I don't have any pictures to compare, but here is a link to the CIC scoring system.

http://www.cic-wildlife.org/?id=80

Download "Red Book" to see how scores are defined, download "Blue Book" to see medal classes.

In general, I personally find a set of red stag antlers of approximately 7 kg and upwards attractive in the context of trophy hunting. A lot is determined by the antler configuration. Good crowns (tops) do a lot to make a trophy attractive. You'll need at least 3 points to truely speak of a "crown". That would normally make the antlers have a total of 12 points - a "royal" as it would be termed in Scotland. That would be an attractive collection of bone to display on your wall.

In many areas, 7 kg is a highly respectable stag, and perhaps even as good or better than what you can expect to find. Consequently, trophies a lot smaller than 7 kg, say, could be considered excellent, depending on the area. If you select your destination carefully, 7 kg should be entirely possible, though.

In this pdf file:

http://www.mistral-jagd.at/angebote/2008/k10-12.pdf

the top left picture is of a stag with antlers weighing approximately 5.8 kg (the remainder of the stags displayed would break the bank... ). This stag has a very nice configuration with decent crowns. He does not display an awful lot of mass, that is what would typically be added when you move up a notch in weight class.

Note, however, that a single figure (be it weight, width or whatever) can never describe the limitless variations you'll find in deer antlers. Even the weight will vary wildly depending on the porosity of the antler material. In general, it is therefore impossible to establish an exact picture of what a trophy of X kg will look like. It really depends on the area and the attributes of the stags in that particular area - e.g. length of main beam, number of points, crown formation, colour, typical weight etc etc etc.

- mike

AK- it´s not really all that hard, when you are plaing and ordering your trip, you will be allowed to express what size of trophy you are looking for to get.

At the place of the hunt, the ranger will set you up to see and plan the shot so that the throphy will be judged on it´s legs so to speak, I have yet to hear of a hunter that has been tricked or owershot size wise as long as he got the ok from the ranger/forester.

Boars are a totally different game, the biggest around to be found in Europe are found in Turkey a country I would not hunt for other reasons other then the hunt that is really great.

Boars are not likely to judged on there feet, however if one doesn´t shoot the biggest one in the group or a huge one, then it´s usually not all that expensive.

Can I suggest that you also ask for a chance to shoot some cull animals, that can at times allow one to go stalking as well, Highseats in all honor but a good stalk is better.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by AK Hunter:
I am planning a European hunt. I am very confused by the different scoring systems. With the price of the trophy varying so dramatically based on the size of the trophy, I am looking for some way to gauge the differences. This is very critical to budgeting and planning.

For example, being an SCI measurer, I have a very good idea what a 300 point SCI red stag looks like. But how does a 7.0kg trophy compare? What about CIC scores?

Does anyone have pictures of the same set of antlers measured under the different methods? This would be highly educational for any of us Americans interested in hunting Europe.

Thanks.

I understand that you let them now in advance what size stag you desire. And I'm sure the good guides are very good at estimating size in the field.

My problem is, I don't know what a 6kg, 7kg or 8kg stag looks like. All the stags I have seen were scored using the SCI measuring system. In other words, I needed pictures as well as corresponding weights to look at. Even better would be some with SCI scores also. That would help me make correlations between them.

I went to the Diana site and looked over their catalog as well as going to sites mho listed. There are a few pictures here to start. But other sources or pictures would help.

As Mike said - a lot of differences here and actualy impossible to see from pictures, tho here are some from our places with weight and score - IMO anything above 6kg is a keeper for a CE stag):



5,4 kg - 181,07 pts



7,4 kg - 191,29 pts



6,6 kg - 189,01 pts



6,6 kg - 195,31 pts



7,2 kg - 204,01 pts

quote:

Originally posted by AK Hunter:
My problem is, I don't know what a 6kg, 7kg or 8kg stag looks like.

...In other words, I needed pictures as well as corresponding weights to look at. Even better would be some with SCI scores also. That would help me make correlations between them.

AKH,

It would be the exception that you find red stags scored in Europe with the SCI score system. CIC is used almost exclusively here. If I'm not much mistaken, the scores Mouse kindly listed are also CIC??

The reason I pointed you to the CIC score book, was in the (vain?) hope, it might allow you to compare the basic scoring methods SCI/CIC. I realize this may not be an easy exercise, but it was the best I could come up with - not having any examples of stags scored with SCI. If you have a set of (elk) antlers, for which you know the SCI score, try scoring them with the CIC system listed in the "Red Book". You may not be able to assign all the "extra" points for good looks, pearling etc, but it should still give you an idea of the ballpark scoring region.

That said, a score or a weight will really only tell you so much about a set of antlers. The antler configuration will be at least as important for determining whether you consider the antlers attractive. The pictures Mouse posted illustrate the differences you can find in antler configuration.

Although it scores (and weighs) less, I personally find this set of antlers



more attractive than this set:



primarily based on the crowns.

The likelihood is that the antlers in Mouse's pictures all come from the same general area. So even though they are different, chances are you'll find even more variation if you compared a set of antlers from Northern Poland to a set from Southern Hungary, say. I realize that is not terribly helpful either, but then again, it is the same dilemma hunters from outside the US face, when they try to select a good destination to take a 180 pts mule deer, say. There are just so many variations possible...

Now at least you have Mouse's pictures, and that might help you. Although the weight is an over-simplification, I still think about 7 kg (assuming good crowns) is a very respectable trophy stag. If you can afford a higher trophy fee than that, that would be the icing on the cake.

- mike

I know this is an old post, but I am trying to get a handle on what an 8kg Stag looks like. I'm trying to decide what "class" of Stag to book.

Any help with pictures of Stag with known weights? This scoring system is very awkward for Americans who are used to inches or even CIC measurements. I wouldn't have a clue what 8, 9 or 10 kg Stag would look like.

While we are on the subject, I am also looking at Fallow. What is a 3 kg or 4kg Fallow like? (I gather 4kg is big boy!)

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
...Note, however, that a single figure (be it weight, width or whatever) can never describe the limitless variations you'll find in deer antlers. Even the weight will vary wildly depending on the porosity of the antler material. In general, it is therefore impossible to establish an exact picture of what a trophy of X kg will look like. It really depends on the area and the attributes of the stags in that particular area - e.g. length of main beam, number of points, crown formation, colour, typical weight etc etc etc...

...Although the weight is an over-simplification, I still think about 7 kg (assuming good crowns) is a very respectable trophy stag. If you can afford a higher trophy fee than that, that would be the icing on the cake.

- mike

Wendell, Mike summed it up best...

Trying to find a common ground - I'd compare a 6kg to a Cape Buffalo in 38" class 8kg to 40", and 10kg 42" roughly...

Here is a post of Aziz's hunt in Bulgaria - he got a 10kg stag that "I wouldnt mind " taking if - I could afford it .

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../8321043/m/995107149

Keep your slots open - beauty is in the eye of the beholder - insist on looking over some trophies when you arive there...

IMO If you plan to come back 8kg is a great starter, if not - take the biggest possible.

P.S. And for the sake of the pictures - here is app. 8kg trophy from Danube area:

Thanks.

I have seen, in the past, 10 kg Stags and 8 kg Stags, I just didn't pay enough attention to them to remember now. I am just looking for a starting point, something to base an expectation on.

That is a hell of a nice 8kg Stag there! I'll shoot that and be very happy.

Any Fallow pics of known weights?

One of the big problems of the americans that want to hunt in Europe is the sliding scale of the trophies. A good guide is supposed to judge the weight of a red stag trophy, plus minus 0.5 kilos in 5 seconds. My advice is to clear those things with the outfitter before booking the hunt. In some areas of Romania, and I suspect it is the same all over Europe, the stags trophies are sensitive lighter than the average of the rest. If I will find how to post pictures here, I will show you 2 stags looking almost the same but with a difference of almost 3 kilos between them. So, bottom line if you are an american and you want to came in Europe for a red stag hunting, select 2,3 outfitters and ask them to send you some pictures with the AVERAGE STAGS from the area where you will hunt and with the prices of those stags.