I can apply for a move back to Europe in July, and the move would happen sometime between October of 2015 and April of 2016.

I have lived in Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey. Have a pretty good idea how the gun laws work where I have lived before ie:

1. Italy no gun ownership for NATO Civilians
2. Spain NATO Civilians can own guns
3. Greece no guns
4. Turkey NATO civilians can own locally bought shotguns.

In Germany I have to have a jagdschein or a firearms license right? Can I return to the US and have my own personally owned firearms shipped to me in Germany and added to my license? Depending on the luck of the hiring draw the Jagdschein appears to be taught everywhere but Garmisch? How far is Garmisch from the nearest English Jagdschein course?

For the United Kingdom, what kind of ass pain is involved in getting a firearms license?

I told the War department I would apply everywhere and we could take the best offer. So we don't actually know where we are going.

This probably sounds pretty wishy washy, and I am sorry to bring this up. Just need to figure out what I am going to sell between then and now and what I am going to keep. My parents are getting old, and the days of storing firearms at their house are coming to an end.

I forgot to add the where to; in Europe it will be the United Kingdom, Germany, Spain, Greece, Turkey, Italy and then in the Asian part of Turkey.

The UK or Germany would be my first choice, then Spain. Anyplace else we lived would mean no gun ownership.

quote:

In Germany I have to have a jagdschein or a firearms license right? Can I return to the US and have my own personally owned firearms shipped to me in Germany and added to my license? Depending on the luck of the hiring draw the Jagdschein appears to be taught everywhere but Garmisch? How far is Garmisch from the nearest English Jagdschein course?

For Germany, if I'm not mistaken, or at least they used to . . . have a US Forces Hunting Course up the hill in Oberammergau. Not sure about that nowadays though with all the drawdown. Once you know where you're going you can get a Sponsor POC and ask questions. Not sure if USAG Bavaria Garmisch has MWR Outdoor Rec anymore or not. Not good if Garmisch has no more . . . you're looking at a 3 hour ride one way to either Graf or Stuttgart for next nearest US Forces hunting course.

Once you do get a Jagdschein, you can have US weapons registered on WBK and then either return to US and handcarry to Germany or have them (long guns) mailed to you.

Your other option is once you have Jagdschein, walk in any German gunshop, like over in Isny, pick out your Blaser/Mauser/Sauer of choice, plop down Jadschein and cash and take it home.

Good luck whether you are in UK or Germany, both have extensive hunting options.

Perhaps there is a US Forces hunting course in Hohenfels, that's only 2.5 hours one way

Check this link out: MWR

When I was in Australia and I thought my next job would be at the Marshall Center I called MWR in Ober and found out that wasn't the case. The lady said that they had not had enough interest to keep it going. She said the local courses were among the most expensive in Germany and only available in German.

Our kids are small it would be ideal to work in Garmisch, but I think more opportunity exist farther north in Bavaria.

I don't think there is a US Forces school in Garmisch above 7th grade.

Are barrels (like unthreaded unchambered ones) and cartridge cases and bullets controlled items?

They are not things that are shippable via the military mail system anymore. I got a way with stocks as early as two years ago. Got a nasty email telling me that a stock was gun paraphanalia from a military postal clerk in Sydney. Still got the stock though.

Cartrige cases and bullets can be mailed free in most EU countries i dont know about US to EU shipping laws. From us to sweden you need scecial permition for bullets and cases (missiles are no problem to export but hunting bullets are to dangerous)

BWW,

You could bring your guns to the UK here and hold them for up to a year on a visitors permit. You would have to put in suitable storage but it is doable, until such time as you get a UK Firearms and or shotgun certificates.

We have an open licences for the US that means we can ship your guns to the UK and you can collect on your local permit.

IN terms of the type of guns allowed to be in your possession, you may not have any side arms or semi-auto rifles, (apart from .22LR).

If you want to talk about it more then feel free to email me or if you will be at DSC or SCI we can meet up.

Gerry will be able to help you about the German processes. We had several US servicemen hunt with us this year from Germany.

Rgds,
K

Have a look at http://www.thestalkingdirector...lice-on-Firearms-Law

Licencing is in the hands of the Police and provided you have the right to be here, and do not have a criminal record you can hold a shotgun or firearm subject to meeting certain criteria.

But in a nutshell two basic types of licences:

1) A Shotgun Certificate - a shotgun is defined as have a non-rifled barrel of at least 24" and either single or doubke barreled. If a repeating action, either semi auto, bolt, lever or pump it must not hold more than 2 cartridges in the magazine, which must be a fixed magazine. You need to demonstrate to the police that you are a responisble person of good charachter and that the shotguns will be securely held - in practice a gun cabinet. No limits with a shotgun certificate on the number of shotguns you can hold, nor do you need to give any particular reasons for their use. But sayibg that you need a shotgun for self defence would get a dimn response.

2) A Firearms Certificate - Section 1 Firearms - a single shot or manually repeating rifle, or a multishot (ie mag capacity is 3 or more cartridges) or short barreled shotgun. Here you need to demonstrate good reason for the possession of each firearm and each firearm is seperately listed on your Firearms Cerficiate along with conditions which the police deem appropriate. So for example with my .243 win I am authorised to shoot deer and vermin with it and for zeroing, but it is not conditioned for target shooting. It is a challenge to have two very similar rifles as difficult to show good reason for possessing the second - I want one doesn't count. So most people will have a 22rf, a 22 or 6mm centrefire for vermin and small deer, and a 270/7mm/.308 for big deer, and a further 308ish rifle for target shooting. If you want a heavy calibre rifle - eg 458 win for big game hunting, you can possess it, but will struggle to get permission to use it in the UK.

With rifles and deer, there are minimum muzzle energy and velocity requirements (and they differ between England and Scotland)- to be able to shoot all deer you need a min of .240 cal, 100 gn bullet and 2450 fps muzzle velocity.

Good reason is demonstrated by membership of a target shooting club and / or you can demonstrate permissions to shoot deer and vermin - this can be from bookings with estates, or having your own ground or membership of a syndicate etc.

Forget handguns and semi-automatic rifles - basically prohibited.

quote:

So most people will have a 22rf, a 22 or 6mm centrefire for vermin and small deer, and a 270/7mm/.308 for big deer, and a further 308ish rifle for target shooting.

Precisely 22LR, 243 Win and a 30-06 for big deer. Hopefully can find a reason to have a 6mm BR. Is the 6mm BR legal for any species in Britain?

Kiri,

I'll see you at Safari Club in February. We have plans to attend.

Yes 6mm BR should be legal for all deer species if you are using a 100gn bullet and can exceed 2450 fps and 1700 ft lbs of muzzle energy. For roe deer you need a 50 gn bullet 2,450 fps and 1,000 ft lbs. to justify a 243 and a 6mm BR - 243 is a light rifle with 6x42 scope set up for Roe Stalking, 6mm BR is a heavy weight rifle with big scope set up for target shooting, long range foxing and deer from high seats. 30-06 is for use on big red stags and Sika deer, cause your host Kiri, won't allow you to use something as small and weak as a 243 on his monster Red red stags. You also will want to shoot wild boat overseas and in the UK with the 30-06.

You can apply for a firearm licence in Italy.
Provided you speak, read and write Italian (with enfasis to bureaucratese) you can apply, in alternative for:
a) sporting firearm licence, allowing you to transport
(disassembled and in a case) a pistol, or a shotgun or a rifle, from your residence to a regular rifle/pistol range (managed by the TSN, sport shooting association) as well as the ammo.
b) hunting firerm licence, allowing you to carry a shotgun or a rifle during the hunting season and to transport (as above) a pistol.

Solution a) involves being a member of TSN (Tiro a Segno Nazionale). I presume you will move to Aviano or Vicenza or Livorno or Naples. Near those places there is a local TSN section. If you are not fluent in Italian it would be difficult.

Solution b) involves attending a course organised by the "provincia" (i.e. county). The teaching and test language is Italian.

Firearms import is a nightmare for everybody, and specially for weapons coming from Countries (e.g.:USA) without a Government controlled proof. Moreover, having a firearm without the possibility of using it legally means looking for trouble. Sooner or later you would be tempted to shoot.
If you succeed in a) or b) better you buy in Italy and resell when you move away.
Good luck!

ofbiro,

I lived in Sicily for 2 years when I was in the US Military. Had a great house over looking the bay of Catania, drank wine, ate cheese, pasta, and chased the beautiful Italian girls around the bars. I love Italy, it's probably one of the nicest places I have ever lived in my life.

I never found a way while I lived in Italy to own a gun. I searched high and low for gun shops in Sicily and never saw one. I am sure they probably exist, but not that I could find.

I hunted in Germany with borrowed guns.

We would take a job in Italy, because Italy is wonderful for families. And I wasn't married when I lived there last time, I know my wife would also enjoy it.

BWW,

I am not exhibiting in Vegas but I will be waling the aisles getting reacquainted prior to exhibiting in 2016 so drop me an email and we can meet up for a beer.

Heym, I think you can shoot stags with whatever you shoot well, but if someone needs a reason to have a bigger gun then who am I to argue... ?

As long as no-one turns up with a muzzle braked super mag I'm happy as the voices in my head are not drowned out by the ringing!!

K

As time gets closer and we have the trip figured out I'll try and get you a bit of a schedule. We are going to go to Penn and Teller and the wife wants to see Cirque du Soleil. I think she has seen them all but this one.

I was looking at the same yesterday!,

Rgds,
K

.
What a great dilemma to be in ! Where to go and live AND HUNT in Europe.

All of the above on UK and German licenses is correct. I would also add that you may be able to get a 6 or 12 month visitors license from the local Jagdbehoerde in Germany that would allow you to bring in a shotgun and rifle (but not buy any in Germany) and hunt whilst there. I know two UK game keepers that when this route rather than the 'Green Diploma / Degree' as the German Jagdschein is often referred to! Worth looking into.

But more the question what and where to hunt !

Germany has red, roe, chamois, wild boar, mufflon, ground game, heaps of tradition and Poland, Czech, Hungary are all near by and you can hunt there too !

UK has 6 deer species, superb bird shooting, loads of tradition - tweed, ties, 11'sies, Scotland and more!

Do you have a bird dog at all? We found that owning a good working dog opens up all sorts of shooting opportunities and invites in Germany!

All the best and good luck !

We don't have a dog. I am looking at one of the bloodhounds or some kind of wirehaired pointer. I also like the large Musterlander.

I have very small children or I would own a jagd terrier (or is it Jagdterrorist?). I have heard they are very hard on kids.

Maybee a wachtel or Norwegian elkhound/wachtel crossbreeding, easy with children and full hunting machines in the forest.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I never found a way while I lived in Italy to own a gun.
I searched high and low for gun shops in Sicily and never saw one. I am sure they probably exist, but not that I could find.

Two different issues:
For the first one I have to do some search, but Ofbiro answer is for sure a good starting point. TSN enrollment it is a good first step, then I'll try to have some more details.
About the second part:
So difficult for me to believe that you never found a gun shop!!!! In Italy they are called Armeria, only recently because our history and hunting traditions, they have a good choice in on rifle, otherwise shotguns (semiauto, side-by-side and over-under) were mainly commercialized. Now it is different.

We do not have gun shops in the commercial centers and so on, if you make a searche for the words Armeria in Sicilia (or gunshop in Sicily, for example) you will find a lot of them.

Welcome back in Europe

Ciao Stefano,

When I lived in Syracusa I looked everywhere for gun shops in Syracusa and Catania. Back then (in 2008 is when I left), searching for anything on the internet in Sicily was difficult. I know a few folks that said the best gun shops in Italy were up near you or farther north closer to the border. I had heard Milano had the best gun shops in Italy. I never made it up there to find out. Usually just flew directly over it to Germany (land of the amazing gunshop).

I asked several Carabanari that worked on the base in Sigonella about it, and none of them knew of any.

We are having another kid this summer, so after that kid is born and we have the appropriate passport we will be heading over.