Hi everyone,

On some of the hunts that I've seen on video, the atmosphere seems very traditional when it comes to shooting equipment. In others, it seems that efficiency is the more rule, particularly in the Spanish videos, where I've noticed a number of magazine fed Browning BARs topped with Aimpoints or reflex sights.

What's the general feeling on the board regarding where this line is drawn? Is it enhancing the magazine capacity of a bolt action rifle? Using an autoloader? An Aimpoint? Or is it simply to each, his own?

Personally, I'm a "to each, his own". I don't mind applying technology to pigs, because, locally, they're almost totally nocturnal. Conversely, I don't feel a need to use a 7mm Ultra on deer. I don't mind that I can't shoot a deer at 450 meters, as I enjoy the hunting more than the shooting.

Without trying to stir anything up, what's the general feeling?

Generally, from what I've seen, to each his own . . . within limits and laws.

Main damper in some countries is the limit of magazine capacity on semi-autos, that gives you one chambered +2 if I remember correctly. With no limit on magazines for other actions like bolts, you have more opportunity with larger magazines with no limit, for instance the 5 and 10 rounders (Sauer comes to mind).

That, coupled generally with tradition, has led to more bolt actions than any other on drive hunts, at least from my perspective. I do see a few semi-autos, lever actions, and drillings, but the majority are bolts.

Perhaps Spain has no laws that limit magazine capacity on semi-autos?

analog,

Kinda depends. Each country and sometimes even regions & areas within countries have their own Tradition; then add the legal constraints, calibers, action types, magazine capacity, etc.

Then you gotta be able to differentiate .... mine is quite simple - if I pay for a hunt, "it's to each his own" as long as it falls within their legal realm. If it's a personal invitation to a private hunt not only legal applications but then I follow the Code of (their local) Tradition to the letter because that's what the Host expects.

Lots of nuances apply, clothing, firearms, etiquette - I find it kinda fun; and they encompass alls sorts of quirks, too many to go into here.

There was such a conflicting mix of information in the videos, that it was quite difficult to reach any distinct conclusion. The shooters garb varied in appearance from studied traditional to the most casual street clothes, and the shooting skills varied from painfully hapless to genuinely amazing, with no obvious correlation between personal appearance and shooting ability. All in all, it looked like a great deal of fun, but very little of it looked easy.

It depends on who you are hunting with. In our huntingteam we have ordinary cheap goretex like hunting clothes some teams in the south have more brittish/german inspired clothes. In the high status hunts with noblemen and directors its tweed and suits only. You can find both novice and high skilled hunters in all groups.

As mentioned above, the dress code is a rather fluid entity and one perhaps best advised on by your host. in any event, he will know the the score better than any of us.

I will note in passing that leather trousers, or ideally chaps, are very much in favour in the Germanic sphere of influence.



IanF of these forums, one of the most experienced guys around , favours the type and that is enough recommendation for me.

Actually, it's the sequence that starts at 13:40 - 16:30 that prompted my questions. It's unlike most of what I've previously seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwmwVBpvZkA

For me, anything that aids in good, clean kills is ok. For the guy in the video it doesn't seem to matter what he would use.

What Gerry said. In Germany, I experienced quite often that the invitation stated no selfloading rifles and/ or minimum calibre 7mm. It is then considered good manners to follow that. Generally you see bolt action rifles, in forestry commission hunts quite some selfloaders and with nobility the DR in 9,3x74 or 8x57 IRS has quite a following. The traditional clothing has suffered a bit because for safety reasons you are now in most hunts required to wear some kind of orange jacket. Of course it is certainly appreciated if you are skilled regarding running shots. On the bright side, there are now a number of shooting cinemas where you can practice this before the season. I cannot comment on southern EU countries but the majority of shots on a driven hunt in Germany is well below 100 meters, my own average might be 25 meters over the years.

quote:

Of course it is certainly appreciated if you are skilled regarding running shots.

That is a great summation .....

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
(snip) ... my own average might be 25 meters over the years.

What do you prefer in the way of optics? Does anyone use iron or aperture sights, or is the red dot king?

I'd also like to thank Ghubert for being kind enough to answer all of my sartorial questions. I'll be sure to give his advice the consideration it deserves.

I personally prefer in most circumstances a low powered scope, my current favourite is a S&B Zenith 1,5-6x42 Reticle FD7 and on my 9,3 x74 double I have the small Swaro Z6 for a more traditional look. If I am really looking at short distances I take the scopes off. However, a lot of people use microdot sights with the Docter Optic and Aimpoint maybe the most popular.

analog-p,

As far as optics go I use a Mauser & Blaser R93 rifles both in 9.3x62 and since the Mauser has EAW mounts and the Blaser their Saddle Mounts I can switch scopes in seconds. I have two for each rifle; a regular vanilla-flavored Millet 30mm Red Dot & a 1.25-4.5x26 illuminated w/Red Dot.

If I get stuck in the thick stuff and have to concern myself with shoe-string length charges I use the Red Dot.

If I'm lucky enough to be in an open area where longer shots may present themselves I use the variable illuminated.

My personal drive hunting rifles :


- fair weather : FN-Browning CCS25 in 9,3x74R + Swaro 1,25-4x24 scope ("battue" circle-dot reticle) in Sühler claw mounts.



- foul weather : Blaser R93 OffRoad Mag-Na-Port in 9,3x62 + Swaro 1,25-4x24 scope (illuminated reticle).

In France there are some changes: in the past the DR were the most used in the "noble" hunts (9,3x74R & 8x57jrs)and the self loading (Bar, Remington in 300WM and 280 Rem) and also bolt rifles for the "popular"hunts (300WM, 7x64, 9,3x62) but now the Blaser R93 and R8 are more and more common everywhere in cal. 300WM, 9,3x62, 7RM, 7x64 and also 270WSM scoped with low power scopes (called "battue") or red points.
My personal choices are R8 in 9,3x62 with previously Swarovski 1,25-4x24 and now the new Kahles Helia 5 (1-5x24)both with IR and also R8 in 338WM scoped with Swarovski Z6 1,7-10x42 IR depending on the conditions (what I use for stalking too)

quote:

Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
Actually, it's the sequence that starts at 13:40 - 16:30 that prompted my questions. It's unlike most of what I've previously seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwmwVBpvZkA

Pretty bad piece of Video.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Pretty bad piece of Video.

To be perfectly fair, there's better shooting in that video. Other monteria videos on the same YouTube channel (there are a bunch), have displays of shooting ranging from the barely adequate to the superb. The prevalence of BARs and the common usage of dot/reflex sights was a surprise to me. I own a Short-trac in 7mm WSM, and I own two UltraDots, one currently on my 10 ga BPS turkey gun (which is getting used this weekend), so I'm not a Luddite. I like most things that go bang, old and new, large and small. Of course, when it comes to high end gear, it's all too easy to enjoy nice things.

On a personal note, I have imperfections in my cornea and it can be difficult for me to use excessively bright red dot sights, due to multiple images. I have far less problems with conventional crosshairs. This last weekend I took my Steyr .375 to the range and shot centerfire with iron sights for the first time in a long time; it's been at least 10 years. Much to my surprise, I was able to hold 2.5" groups at 50 yards, which I credit almost entirely to the superb irons on the Steyr.

a_p:

You cannot do much wrong with conventional scopes. I used the old Swaro with the circle dot reticle very successfully- and very often without the batteries. The most important thing is to be trained and swift in your shooting.

analog

I was ONLY referring to the piece of video you highlighted - "the sequence that starts at 13:40 - 16:30 that prompted my questions."

ie - the bit where the deer is shot at and wounded multiple times including a swinging broken leg.

I agree some good shooting exists in the video,
that doesn't excuse the bit you and I focussed on.

quote:

(snip) ...
that doesn't excuse the bit you and I focussed on.

I was trying to be polite, but I agree with you completely. It was a miserable piece of film.

In Bulgaria, we are using mainly rifles both semi-auto and bolt-action with red dot sights or riflescope with miminum magnification for quick target aquisition. In the dense forest there are hunters that prefer using guns just with open sights. My personal choices are Blaser R93 .30-06 and Sako75 7mm rem mag both with aimpoint red dot sights.