Does any one in the UK stalk with a .444 Marlin?
I've aquired a .44mag barrel and I'm thinking about getting it rechambered to .444 Marlin.
Does anyone have any experience of this round?

DW

Might not be legal based on muzzle velocity requirements.

What are the ballistics of the Marlin?

Dan Webster
I think you will find that the .444 marlin is slightly less than the .45-70. You should see with good h/loads about 2100fps with 300g and 2250fps with 240`s if you are using cast bullets you can expect to get complete penetration end to end on ANY deer should you be able to get the nod from your lisc officer which unfortunatly you will not.
IMO the caliber thing is all wrong, why is it that you can go out stalking with your .223 loaded with some 50g TNT`s or B-tip which are varmint bullets and this be legal but you cannot go out with your 45-70 and 400g cast bullets that have killed millions of bison and the cops turn around and say its "not enough gun" to kill a roe or red! what a joke

Im going to stop now coz i`m almost on my soap box.

P.s i think if you can get your hands on some 200`s you might just make it,,,,,,,,, just! just like the 6ppc does!!!

good luck B

I've got a copy of police FLO guidelines (from a link on this site )and it says that the .444 marlin is suitable for deer, feral goat, and boar. And that it will deliver 2500-3000ftlb.
Who am I to argue??

Does anyone have opinion as to whether it would be a good idea to present copies of these documents with any variation applications?

Or would just p*** them off?

There is only one way to find out, but, I would sugest a phone call to your FLO first, just to make sure they do not get pi##ed off.

John

quote:

IMO the caliber thing is all wrong, why is it that you can go out stalking with your .223 loaded with some 50g TNT`s or B-tip which are varmint bullets and this be legal but you cannot go out with your 45-70 and 400g cast bullets that have killed millions of bison and the cops turn around and say its "not enough gun" to kill a roe or red! what a joke

This is just a question???

Without trying to sound to disrespectful to our noble and wise FLO's , if they stop you, whilst stalking & you have the correct paperwork and calibre firearm for the job, how are they going to check or even know whether you have the correct loads without a Chrono and a ballistics program, which I don't believe is standard patrol car issue?

The last time I had to explain myself, I found myself explaining the layout of an FAC, pointing out the calibre and weapon on my FAC, then showing the calibre marking on the barrel and then pointing out the "writing" on the bottom of the cartridge.

To which the responce was a smile and the phrase "I bet that makes a big hole"

Dan
I would give them a call and depending on your relationship with them i would work out before hand any difficult questions they may ask you, or if it were me i would invite him around for a coffee and a chat with all relevant paper work to hand,remember its not a comp to see who knows more than the other but i would absolutly have my "good reason" memorised, for curiosity what is your good reason?.

regards B

Bumscratcher,
My initial good reasons are always for target shooting, then once on ticket my FLO just asks for proof of permission to shoot over 'said' land.

But the main reason is to keep costs down, I want a .308 as well, and maybe a 6mmBR. But I've already got the .44.
I picked up my new buckmark .22 pistol last friday and I've got slots on my ticket for a ruger old army and a moderated .22, think I'm going to need another safe!!! and maybe a new wife, this one keeps tuting

What I don't fully understand is how I go about getting a calibre change done on my ticket to a firearm already on it?
What I plan to do is have a chat with my FLO and subject to the thumbs-up I'd send the gun off to be re-chambered at the same time my FAC goes for it's veriation?

Dan
You mention about "caliber change" i think what you are refuring?? to is chambering change? if you have a slot for a .44 ( remember caliber is the size of the hole in the barrel) you are set to go on any chambering that meets regs for stalking should that be what you wish to use it for.
as for your .308 and Br, just get your self a 6.5 swede and enjoy the walk in the woods!!!!!!!!!!!! single shot of course!
regards B

B,
The reason I question it, is because on my ticket the barrel is down as a .44mag??? I'll ring the guy with the re-chambering tools and see what he says.

DW

Dan,
my understanding of the current English legislation for shooting deer is:
min calibre 240, 1750ftlbs energy,2450fps muzzle velocity. This is why my 30/30 was not legal for deer in England..
They told me that they would not accept, that I could achieve that with reloads!
They would only accept factory data..
One other problem might be getting land approved for that calibre!

regards

griff

Dan,I've read a bit about the numerous restictions that you folks have across the pond,but have'nt actually spoken with anyone from the U.K. concerning them.Do you need to state a reason for a specific calibre aquisition or alteration?I recently purchased a 470 Nitro Express double rifle just because I wanted it.I already have a 416 Rigby + 375 H+H so I guess I need the 470 like a hog needs a sidesaddle but it seemed like the thing to do at the time.Incedentaly,I do have a 444 Marlin also but my son has pretty much decided it's his.Anyway,I much prefer the English calibres.Your people really had an excellant understanding of what was required for the most possitive results.If you require any additional loading data for your 444,please let me know,I'd be happy to go through my manuals + relay whats worked best for me.

what size deer in the UK do yall shoot that a .30-30 would not be enough gun? untold millions of whitetail have fallen to this round in the past 110 yrs. thanx. Kurt.

Norman Conquest
we have to apply for each calibre inturn and a reason for each must be given, anything above 30 cal has been deemed not neccesary by ACPO and can only be used for shooting paper,in certain cases this rule has been relaxed.

Kurt,
the people who put forward these regulations don't know which is the dangerous end of a firearm.
regards
griff

Why make life difficult for yourself? Just get any standard high velocity cartridge in an off the shelf rifle and 'scope combo you like the look of and get on with it.

I'll second Griff that you'll do well to get ground passed for anything much over .30 cal let alone .44.

Tim1
People are people, you may like "standard " and thats fine but some of us want differant and thats equally fine. Some days a like nothing more than tiptoeing through the woods with an old lever action, others it could be sat up a seat with my superwiz bang game getter and a moon scope looking for that 500y neck shot, thats why to be able to do these things is more important to me than what i have in my hands.

The ground issue.
If you can prove to the cops that you want heavy slow moving caliber because of some potental saffety issues and you have prepared yourself correctly thay would have a very hard time to turn you down, these safty issues could be the close proxcimitry to roads or buildings
or you only have small lots of land and you do not need high velocity rounds for such.
If these chamberings are on the approved list then we should try to us as many as we can.
B

Ps sorry about the spelling its been one of those days!!

In my experience, it doesn't matter how good a case you present to your local constabulary. It tends to be a case of whatever the Home Office Guidelines say goes. Although I've found the Guidlines incorrect or lacking clarity on several occasions it simply isn't worth the time effort and frustration arguing the point unless you're being particularly hard done by.

Regards,

When my FLO mentioned that I should get .223 for foxing and a .308 for deer I took it as a passing comment, but, thinking about it, that is probably all that he's willing to give me???

He did also mention that if I'm serious about foxing I should invest in a .17 rimfire as they are really popular at the moment

Bumscratcher,
I wouldn't approach this on the safety issue!! As for a slow moving bullet, Far more dangerous than a high velocity bullet!!
regards
griff

Griff
I know that and you know that but they dont!.
some years back i was chatting with my FLO and his main concern was how far would that bullet travel, his theary being that the slower bullet has a steeper curve on it so their fore will not travel as far! Their are so many variables as to make this statement very flimsy.

Just my experiance and 2p`s worth
B