Hello Hermann,
I do agree that overloads are generally dangerous. And even though I've been handloading for almost 20 years now it's very rare that I find a reason to push the limit. Basically it's because I dont think that another 30-40 m/s will make any difference.

But in this case we have a cartridge that generates very low pressure levels. But the question here is why? If there is no other reason then that there are a lot of old and possibly weak guns around then I would get away with more pressure in a stronger gun.

When I was in contact with Norma they told me that there's no difference between 8x57JRS and 8x57JS cases (apart from the rim of course).

And the Merkel 141 is chambered in 30-06 and 30 R Blaser and these cartridges generates higher pressure then the pressure I aim at. What I want to do is to use published 8x57 IS data to reload my 8x57 IRS.

I am well aware about the problem with regulating a double rifle since this is not the first double gun I will load for or own. The new Merkel 141 have a regulating system similar to the one on Krieghoff classic.
And the gun will have to visit my gunsmith anyway as I need a clawmount and probably a new stock. And this kind of work might lead to a re-regulating anyway.

Best Regards

Henrik

Hello Hermann,
I'm not offended at all!
Obviously anyone who wants to push the limit when reloading should take extreme care. I have seen a couple of accidents with blown primers and such things because the reloader didn't have a clue about what he was doing.

What I want to do is to send a 196 grain bullet out of my barrels with around 780-790 m/s. The bullets I have in mind are either Norma Oryx, Woodleigh, RUAG CDP or maybe a 200 grain Partition.
Did you know that the latest Vihtavouri reloading leaflet have data for 8x57IS where they use N160 to push the bullet to 821m/s!!!!

In my experience this performance level will be just perfect for most of our scandinavian big game. At the moment I use 6.5x55, 308win, 300wsm and 9.3x62 for most of my hunting but I have used a lot of other chamberings in the past. Most of my hunting is conducted with either 308win or 9.3x62 and the way I see it a 8x57 would fit perfectly in the middle, and let me tell you that both mooses and boars have a habit of dying when using any of the cartridges above .

The gun that I have on order is a Merkel 141E and this particular gun makes it posible for the shooter to regulate the barrels, this is a system that is similar to the one that krieghoff uses on their "classic" But what really made up my mind about that gun was the overall size, weight and handling qualities of that gun(100 cm and 3 kg). Since one of the biggest advantages of a double rifle is the quick follow up shot when needed, in such a light gun you don't want a 9.3x74R or anything similar. The recovery time for the second shot will just be to long.

Best Regards

Henrik

I understand Your intentions: a chambering for a double, fitting between two proven Bolt gun rounds ( well, one rather a semi auto round, so lets say between two rimless rounds ;-))

With a double you want to shoot close.

The recoil of my 9.3x62 CZ 550 FS is extremely mild!! Rather less than a .30-06!?!

Get a 9.3x74R, use blunt nosed bullets, e.g. 286grs Norma Alaska, Lapua Mega, S & B RN or >the< bullet: the Partition! Opens up on small game, sheds weight which translates to quick kill, keeps intact so goes through!

The A Frames and so an are for the biggest and worst, but won�t kill quick if you have to shoot a roe deer doe or medium sized pig on a driven hunt! CDP�s reputation is ( but few use it ) not the best, don�t know why...

Just kiddin�, get that 8x57IRS!

Hermann

Dear Hermann (and Johan),
you know how it is when you get an idea in your head it might start out harmlessly enough, but soon it will start to grow......
At this time I'm starting to get the idea the idea that rimmed cartridges in some form will do nicely for all my hunting. At the moment there's two different projects that I've started to work on.

First there will be this medium double in 8x57 IRS for mooses, boars and deer when driven or hunted with dogs as we often do here in Sweden. With a good load and a good scope any game within 150-200m will be in serious trouble.

And as soon as I get delivery of this gun I will order a nice kiplauf with barrells in 7x65R and 5.6x50R. This will be a Blaser K-95, at the the moment I'm only waiting for a decent price for this gun from my dealer. And then I'm starting to get new ideas on how this family of rimmed cartridges and their hosting guns might start to grow....

I get really scared when I start to think about where this might lead...

BTW, Johan I know that you are sneaking around here somewhere. But be shy now I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter as I know that you are a big fan of your ZG-47's and their rimless chambering. as you know there might be a decent ZG-47 in my safe with your name written all over it

Best Regards
Henrik

Dear Hermann,

it is hard to argue with you, since you are mostly right. But what would this board be, without spirited quibbles on details ?

Quote:

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But you should also know, that the 8x65RS, with its extremely ( for a rimmed round ) high max pressure is rather ( or totally ) dead!

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Well, well: resurrexit sicut dixit....
Maybe it is a bit early for such frolicking to culminate in an alleluia (which I therefore replaced by three dots), but here is just one example.

A 7x65R break-open single shot (Kipplaufb�chse) rebored to 8x65RS. It's my very own "bread'n-butter-gunsmith" who made it (not for me however... $$$). He was extremely content with tight groups on the range and with its performance on game (he had handloaded the new Brenneke TOG bullet for this rimmed round).



Best regards,
Carcano

Dear Carcano!

Nearly ALL can be done, it might only cost money...

I said almost, not definitely.

And don�t forget: "Totgesagte leben l�nger"

:-) Hermann