Hi all,

I mean sound moderators, not our "glorious" taffy Leader...

Anyway, I was out with a mate on saturday and he had a reflex type mod on his 243 which I was reallyimpressed with. The only issue for me is that it looked quite bulky.

I've heard of different systems but to be honest don't know much about them so I thought I'd ask here. I'm looking to put the Mod either on my 243, or get a dedicated 6.5 for the purpose of foxing or deer work where a moderator would be beneficial.

What types of mods are there and what are the diffrences? I heard something about a barrel sleeving system that left the barrel the thickness of a bore barrel but I know nothing else of it.

Thanks,
FB

FB,
the best on the market without question is the JetZ! Compact,lighter and quieter than the T8 and doesn't rust!!

regards
griff

FB,
try this site: Jackson Rifles

griff

Thanks Griff,

As I understand it the T8 sits over the barrel while the Jet-Z attaches to the end?

The More I look at it the more likely I think I am to to go for a new rig, something like a 270wsm or one of the 6.5's in a stainless synthetic or laminate.

1894, I seem to remember ou set up a new rig recently that you were very happy with?

Any ideas gratefully received
FB

FB

The 270 WSM in my opinion is an excellent calibre. I am very pleased with my M70.

However if you are looking for a rifle for foxing and deer control for use in conjunction with a mod I would rule out any short mag.

Personally I would go with conventional 270 Win as you have a very versatile calibre in terms of bullet weights for foxing and deer (i know you know this already). The short mags have less percieved recoil and slightly better performance than the conventional calibres (non magnums of course) but they burn alot of powder and also magazine capacity isn't the best. My M70 is meant to hold 3 rounds but only cycles flawlessly when loading 2 in the mag. I have a Sako 85 on order in 300 WSM and I am told this cycles without fault with full mag capacity (4 rounds).

Thanks

JB

Kiri, 1894 put together a very handy looking rig with a .243 Remmington. If you search down a few pages you will find it.

I don't know if you hand load, but if I was putting togther such an outfit, I might go with the 260rem. If you don't load, 6.5x55 might be the way.

I have played quite a bit with a 270win with a T8. It is a big heavy rig. The T8 does tame the 270 substantially, however, it is still bit of a beast. The other issue is that if you shorten the barrel much - as most do to make a mod'ed rifle useable, the 270win will start to suffer under 22", and the muzzle blast will increase a lot.

I would stick to something on the 308win case.

I was reading about the 260 Rem this mng in the ST. more a rifle test than a calibre test.

The other one I like the idea of is the 7mm-08 or the 25-06. I think there would be a better range of bullet weights available in the 7mm so although I'm looking for a rifle that wil shhoot a relatively light bullet (say 120gr) I can get a 140gr bullet loaded up if I need one for some reason.

My logic (according to one days research talking to people)is for a short barrelled rifle (say 19") with one of the stainless ASE moderators, which in .30 size is only 3.5" long and narrower than the T8 while reducing noise levels more... (apparently...???)

As for the rifle itself probably a stainless synthetic/laminate T3 might fit the bill or a Sako if I can got hold of one second hand that fits the bill.

Keep the ideas coming as it's still early days.

CD, I dont load at the moment but I'm sure I will get round to it. As such the 6.5x57 may also be a possibility.

FB

Kiri, there are a couple of Sako AII's in 243win on guntrader at under £400. I'd pick one up and have it rebarreled & mod'ed to the calibre of your choice - 260 or 7/08. You can always add a McMillan to it in the future.

I wouldn't go with an '06 based round as they need a long action and a longish barrel to do their best work. You want this rifle to be as short as possible before you add the mod. For the same reason I would not do a T3 as it is a 30/06 action size.

Realistically then I could keep my sako 243 and get it rebarrelled? I think it is a Forrester.

And get a Mcmillan stock for it. Although it isn't Stainless

FB

The T3 would be a good option. The size of action is academic as it is the calibre you need to worry about but yes short action calibres would work the best if you are going to chop the barrel.

The T3 is a light rifle and is perfectly balanced when the barrel is chopped. I would also go Jet Z personally. A friend has a T3 lite in 243 with a 16 inch barrel. It is a fantastic tool and when I have shot it it is balanced perfectly. I have been looking at a similar project for some time.

i have a model 75 stainless synthetic in .243 ack with a pes mod on it and it is very handy to carry about.
I did see a second hand one on the shelves of west country guns last weekend...

FB,
it has to be one of the S/A calibres like the 7mm-08 or 308 so as not to affect the velocity to a greater degree by shortening the barrel, any of the 06 based cartridges require barrel length to be efficient,should you shorten one these then you could end up with a lot of unburnt powder in your mod and the next round will certainly wet your dress...

I belive that the 7mm-08 it the most efficient cartridge on the market, by that I mean that its powder charge to velocity is unassailable.

Going back to mods believe me the JetZ is in a league of its own, the closest mod is the T8,
I witness more than most when it comes to mods on the stalking scheme, PES, T8's,Wildcat even had a Surefire,the JetZ beats them by a country mile, so much so that if you buy one and don't like it, I will buy it off you!

regards
griff

regards
griff

FB,

Puntgunner and I saw I Remmington Mountain rifle with an over barrel moderator fitted...This mod covered the entire barrel virtually back to the chamber..It looked like an over size bull barrel..

I've not heard the rifle so can't say how it performs sound wise, but as it only added about 2" to the barrel, the whole rifle handled far better than is usual with a moderator fitted.

It also required a different stock with quite a wide fore end to have have enough material to take the channel for the moderator..

I don't recall the brand of the moderator, but it was one where it only has one outer wall..the inner wall is is in effect the outer of the barrel.

If you are going to have your .243 rebarreled, you could get a stainless barrel (in say .260Rem) as none of the barrel is visible with the moderator fitted.

I think it would be a fairly expensive compared to just fitting a T8, but the end "package" I think would be worth it..

Regards,

Pete

I think the 260 Rem might be what I'm after. I spoke to one of the dealers last week who in turn also spoke to Peter Jackson. The whole barrell system apparently is not worth looking at in comparison to the Jet-Z or ASE performance. The only reason I thought of the ASE is because it is only 3.5" and weighs nearly half of the T8.

Basically the 260Rem throws a 120 to 140gr bullet which gives me the heavier pill than the 243 that I was looking for. The only issue is getting hold of Ammo.

Are brass & heads available for home loading in this country?

I'd also be interested in what anyones expeience with carcass damage is like in this calibre. It's main job will be Fallow with the odd red and Roe thrown in.

Thanks
FB

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
The only issue is getting hold of Ammo.

Are brass & heads available for home loading in this country?

I'd also be interested in what anyones expeience with carcass damage is like in this calibre.

Thanks
FB

Kiri, brass should be easy to buy over the internet if you can't find any locally. Alternatively, use 243win brass. Heads are exactly as for a 6.5x55 so that is no problem.

On game performance should be the same as a 6.5x55 with 120-140gr heads. The 6.5x55 only really surpasses the 260rem with heavey heads in the 150-160gr range. These aren't needed for UK deer.

A carefully loaded 260rem with 129gr pills will effectively equal 270win performance with 130gr heads. That is a pretty decent place to be when it comes to shooting deer.

quote:

A carefully loaded 260rem with 129gr pills will effectively equal 270win performance with 130gr heads. That is a pretty decent place to be when it comes to shooting deer.

Brian,

I think you might just have put FB off the .260Rem!

With regards the brass, is it easier to neck up a .243win or neck down a .308win?? I've never got involved with forming cases, so i'm just curious,

Regards,

Pete

Like the 270 huh? Why isn't there a screwey up nosed emoticon when you need one?!?!?!

I'm gonna talk to Mr "one shot" Whiteley this mng about it and see what he thinks regarding building this or just buying a rifle and tweaking it.

I can feel a new toy for Africa next year coming along!!

FB

You children are too hard on the 270. It is not that bad. Realistically, it is capable of more velocity than is needed for woodland stalking, it is the perfect round for the open hill.

My point on the 260 (or 6.5x55 for that matter) is that you can get very close to 270win performance while burning a lot less powder, less recoil and less noise. This is with 129gr heads. Go to 150gr heads and you are in an entirely different ball game.

I just spoke to Rick, and he thinks it isn't such a good idea because apparently the 260Rem is the "Alfa Romeo" of rifles....

Does everthing you want until you need parts or want to sell it...

It is a 5-6 month wait for one of the Sako's from GMK as it is on the special order list, and the on the Tikka the same but also unable to get the nice McMillan stock for it....

I Still think it fills all the boxes of what I want, but I'm not too keen on throwing some money at something that will havve to be for ever... Commitment issue I know!!!

FB

I bought a remy stainless synthetic 243, had it shortened to 19", stuck a PES CUSTOM 32mm mod on it with no barrel sleeve (goes back about 7" but seals with O rings at the rear which allows the gases to bear on the barrel so increasing the volume available) I ordered a McMillan mountain stock, a set of tallies, a stainless floor plate from Williams and a Jewell trigger. The threading and bead blasting was done by Steve Bowers. The rifle all up weighs 9lbs, is the same length as a 26" barreled short action and balances 1" in front of the front action screw. The moderator is slim enough that it barely registers to my eye or the deers. It doesn't 'ting' so doesn't need a cover.

Scarily accurate, trigger to die for shoots from 55gr to 105gr. I like it so much I used it down in Cornwall for roe with the chance of a red. 105gr speer hot cores at 2,800fps under RL22 makes for minimal damage on roe and felled a 275lb (estimated) knobber from a 50yard shot through the top of both shoulders to hit high heart - the bullet exited as did the deer within 60yards.

So from my point of view the rifle has to be dedicated to moderator use, has to be short action, has to be stainless to allow an over barrel moderator without internal sleeve so reducing bulk, has to be threaded with BR precision to allow a much narrower opening. Barrel length should be shorter to allow a compact overall package that you want to not dread using. Somehow shooting with a moderator seems more deliberate so IMHO the rifle should have a darn good trigger.

260 and 7mm08 are fantastic candidates if a 243 will not do it but they are for handloaders only. If a 243 won't do it for you then it's 308.

As a confirmed mauser custom nut it pains me to realise how impressive this tool is.....

Fallow buck, I have a .243 with a PES moderator fitted, I use it for fox and deer. It's an excellent combination, very accurate, quiet and with virtually no felt recoil.

This whole thing has snowballed!!

Basically I have come accros a spare action through a mate of a mate, (only mine as when the missus finds out she won't be signing his Xmas card!!! You have been warned Mr F...)

We have settled on a 260Rem in stainless with a pretty short barrel, (18"-19" if powder burn rates allow). I need to get hold of a ballistics programme to see what It will give me, and to make sure I don't end up in drag as Griff said

There are 2 choices to make. Firstly does the rifle have a toploading floorplate Mag or a detachable mag?

The other option is a laminate stock versus a composite. I really like the look of the laminate but I have been warned of the weight of them. Given it will be quite a short rifle and moderated I thought the wieght from the back of the stock in laminate would help the overall balance of the gun when a moderator is fitted.

I'd want to keep the overall weight as close to 8lbs as possible so I'm interested on where I can find out hatthe weight of a laminate stock is.

By the way, this will probably take the 243 out of my cabinet, along with a beretta S/A 12g that I don't really use anymore leaving me with justthe cost of a scope for the whole thing, Otherwise i don't think I would have taken quite so drastic action!!

Rgds,
FB

19" is a good length.

The only way you will get to 8lb with a standard short action such as an M700 would be to use a McMillan edge, light weight mounts and a light scope. Personaly I would forget about weight (to a point) and concentrate on balance. If you go as light as you can and then add 5ozs or so to the butt you will have a lot better handling rifle.

A 260 with 19" should be knocking on 2,900fps with 100gr and 2,700fps from 120s and 125s without going nuts on pressure and resorting to huge amounts of slow burning powder that's going to make it louder.

I much prefer floor plates as I can't lose them. What action is it?

Agree with you on the floor plate option on a lightweight stalker.

Here is a pic of the action - rather pretty I fancy!

http://www.lawtonriflebarrels.com/


Rgds Mod

1894,

Yep that is the action. Also it is having a Lothar Walther stainless barrel. I think in either lightweight or standard sporter, (which might be fluted depending on what the effect on accuracy is)

I prefer the floorplate mag too I think, as I'm always losing my mag for my 308, and I seem to get more jams with the detachable mag than the floorplate in the 243.

Rgds,
FB

Very nice looking actions but they do seem very aligned to bench rest/competition and rather massively constructed. The bases look long range oriented and again pretty massive. Can't see any drilling or tapping to allow for standard bases. IMHO it is vital to keep to handiness if a moderated rifle is not going to become an unwieldy lump.

Is the action designed to have the same dimensions as the M700? If not installation in a McMillan becomes a lot more expensive.

If you want handiness you might do worse than a standard stainless M700 rifled action in 260rem.... complete barreled action for slightly less than the cost of this action only. This has the advantage of supplying the mag box (which a Williams floor plate requires)and allows a host of fine parts to be ordered direct from the US which will fit with little or no smithing.

If you can get my way for an evening from London I'll let you fondle and shoot my attempt. PM me you e mail and I'll send some photos.

A-Tec moderators are the best; A-tec link

...and if you want to shoot between 120-140gns buy a 260

HI 1894,

I think thew actionin the picture is actually the larger one in the range. The 7000 are apparently built on the 700 size, this being a 243 size It should be substantially slimmer.

The rails on top are optional, so there are some choices to make there, but when they arrive i will get a complete weight, work out the best estimate of the finished product and go from there.

This is the comparison of the three action sizes and I believe thatthe one I have the option on is the smallest.



To be honest I'm nt sure I'f I'm going to use McMillan for the stock. there are a couple of other options that I'm looking at.

I quite like the look of this:



Or



Each would be in the second shape with a shorter forend but just looking at the colours.



I'll drop you a PM with my email.

Rgds,
FB

Weighed my shortened 308 this morning before I went out. 17 "barrel, rem 700,hs detachable mag. t8 moderator, zeiss 6x42. Point of balances at front of bolt (under gas overflow hole.) All up 10lb.
3 yrs. on I still can't manage to post a photo!!

Hey Trans,

If you have the photo's mail them to me if you like? I'll PM you my email.

Are you out on the fallow for thew last weekend?

Rgds,
FB