Question for you guys who have had barrels chopped and threaded for a moderator.

After you have made the normal changes for a moderator, were your previous "best loads" still performing as expected in your rifle, or did you have to go through a fresh load development process to get best accuracy again?

I have a very accurate little .222rem which I am contemplating having chopped to 20" and threaded for a mod. I am wondering will I have to start again on load development etc once the changes have been effected?

You need to re-finetune the previos favourite load, ie use the same constituents in the same oal and seat but tinker with the powder a little. In reality I found some favourite loads stay v,close to same, some don't; which isn't very helpful.

I only ever put a moderator on a rifle previously unshot by me so I can't tell you the effect BUT I can tell you some generalities.

Do not skimp on the threading - it is the fount of all accuracy with a moderator. A really good BR style smith should be able to thread exceedingly accurately and even tailor the thread on the barrel to the moderators thread (yup not all 1/2" UNFs will be the same tightness)

It will be more expensive but worth it. Mine own smith threaded accurately enough to allow a 0.5mm clearance between the blast baffle and bullet diameter - that's 20thousandths of an inch! It cost three times as much as most others but has been worth it not least because such threading means the moderator doesn't come loose as you shoot.

As a general rule you can expect tighter groupings from the increased stiffness of the shorter barrel and the reduced muzzle flip. The shorter stiffer barrel also has the effect of making most loads print very close to each other.

If the rifle isn't stainless make sure you take the mod off for storage. Barrels are quickly ruined by storage with moderators on.

Good luck - which make are you going for?

If I do get this done, not decided 100% yet, it will be going to Steve Kershaw for a PES. Kershaw's name keeps coming up.

The rifle is a very pretty little delux grade mannlicher. I would want him to make a cover for the threads with the off-cut from the barrel, so the muzzle would look like normal when the mod is off.

Friend of mine here had a ASE CQB fitted last year, by one of the big name gunsmiths. It does a good job of reducing noise, but I am not happy that the rifle is grouping as consistently as it was before the work was done. The first shot in particular is going 2.5-3" high. He is happy with it, so I have kept my mouth shut.

I have a moderator on 3 rifles, 6.5, 243 and 222. The 222 I had threaded from new and have only ever used with the moderator, the same T8 I use on all three of them. With the other two I cannot say that I have ever noticed any fall of or increase in accuracy, but, the barrels were not chopped. As far as the loads are concerned I made no changes to them.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
If I do get this done, not decided 100% yet, it will be going to Steve Kershaw for a PES. Kershaw's name keeps coming up.

Excellent choice of smith (so I hear) and moderator. Which model are you going for?

1894, I have not decided on a model of moderator. My thoughts were to basically go for the smallest, shortest one that got the job done.

I had planned to allow myself to be advised by Steve Kershaw.

For what it is worth Brian I went with the ASE S5 as I had the opportunity to shoot a rifle with one on it and loved it.

The downsides are that you can't take it apart to clean it and it isn't a reflex type but on the positive side it is easier to fit and remove than the reflex types and it is small enough that you can take it off and put it in your pocket. It is also slightly easier to change it between rifles, assmuing you have met the licencing requirements for this, than the reflex type.

It seems well built and solid and it gives a significant reduction in sound levels and would appear to have no impact at all on accuracy.

Correct screw threading is hardly "rocket science." Despite what the gun trade would like you too believe.... get a gun shop to do this bit of basic lathe work and thay charge an arm and a leg or you get a mediocre job and 6 week wait (the proof excuse.)
Your local engineering firm almost certainly has superior facilities and machine operators for threading a barrel. Copy and print the correct spec. off Jackson rifles website and go chat with local engineer.... chances are he will sort it one evening this week for £30.

I had issues posting a answer last night but here it goes.

I belive that cans on certain rifles are prone to cause shifts in POI.

Rifles with thinner barrels, less than perfectly bedded stocks, wood stocks and delicate actions I belive are prone to show large shifts in POI between on and of mounted cans.

Short, thicker barrels, solid stocks, composite or other, properly bedded of fitted will in my novice way of seening things be less prone to show those POI shifts.

CD- your friends rifle is that a shift between a Cold Bore Shot , the first shot and the rest or is it between mounted/unmounted can.

For me it would be unacceptable with such a shift.

Best regards Chris

Steve Kershaw is supposed to be very good and quick to boot.

I don't agree with Trans Pond. I would never trust a rifle to someone if I couldn't see the quality of similar work. That thread is going to be about the single most accuracy critical part of the rifle.

Also a gunsmith will re-crown the barrel as well which I have found recently seems to be a critical part of the process. I have used Mike Norris recently and he does an excellent job including re-crown while you wait (as long as you agree a time with him first).

For what it is worth I have had T8's on both my .22-250 and .308 for the last 7/8 years and I have been very impressed with them. However, for the last 12 months I have been using an ASE Jet Z for my 7mag and 300WSM which is just superb.

Brian go to Young Guns in Castledawson, He sent my Tikka over to Steve Kershaw to have it Threaded, great job and he has rifles going over about every month so it keeps the cost of postage down. he also sells wildcat and PES and good prices

Aaron, Mervyn is the only man I do business with.

I have two Sako 75's with moderators fitted. They were both very accurate out of the box but I have found that since I had the can's fitted they shoot about 8" high when I take the mods off. Not a problem for me as I never shoot them without them. But I have found that off of a bipod at 100yds I can get 5/8" groups with a 5 shot string. I have no problem with zero shift at all even when I strip the rifles and thoroughly clean them they are always bang on afterwards. I aggree with transpond about the threading, any engineer worth his salt will be able to thread the barrel to with in plus or minus 0.001". Being a toolmaker by trade I realise how easy it is, and used to do jobs to tighter tolerances every day.

Hi gents!
On my moderated .375 I have seen no changes in POI whatsoever, regardless of bullet weight. The gun shoots to the same point as it did before. I have not had to adjust the scope.

Sincerely
/Daniel

Somewhat as an aside to this I saw a Blaser barrel today to which a reflex moderator had been fitted. The user had clearly left the moderator on the barrel after using it and the surface of the barrel was in a mess, it appeared to be rusting and the coating had been completely removed from the barrel over the area covered by the moderator.

I'm given to believe that the "weatherproof" coating applied to the Blaser barrels is pretty good but it certainly didn't stand up to the reflex moderator. I guess that the combination of the heat retained under the moderator plus the condensation caused the problem. With that in mind be sure to take a reflex moderator off your rifle when not using it. I've no idea how long it took for the Blaser barrel to get into that state but clearly it is not something you want to see on your own rifle.

Hi Guys .... Just a brief word in support of anyone thinking of sending work to Steve Kershaw in Yorkshire. He has supplied and fitted several moderators for me in amazing short turn-around times to a very high standard. One heavy barrelled Sako .222 required the barrel machined down for about the last 8" to allow a slim 38mm PES to fit. Nothing is a bother to Steve and his prices are very reasonable, give him a bell on 01430 430553 or mobile 07725 987295.

Ok guys, update.

I left the Mannlicher .222rem with my dealer on Friday past. It has been sent to Steve Kershaw today.

Just spent 20 minutes on the phone with Steve Kershaw - who would have talked to me all afternoon if necessary.

The barrel is to be cut back to 21" - as short as the longish fore-end will allow, and threaded to 1/2"unf. Cap to be made to match the end of the barrel. Threading is to be matched up to a PES T12 Scout. The Scout has the twelve baffles up front, with 115mm in front of the muzzle but only 165mm back along the barrel, OAL 280mm, 38mm diameter.

The finished product is due back before the weekend.

I will report again when I get the rifle back and shoot a few groups.

Brilliant choice - you will have a wonderful tool. So much so you'll be looking at your other rifles..........

Good luck with the 222 Brian, I will be posting a horror story, but thankfully with a happy ending when I get some time to do some pictures, about barrel shortening and moderator fitting.

But Brian surely this time tinkering with this rifle will get in the way of the fishing???

Regards NW

Richard, no horror stories please. My baby is in the hands of a man with cutting tools, I am on tenter hooks.

The only thing getting in the way of the fishing just now is the fish. Washed out on Lough Erne at the weekend. Off to Gayway for 4 days at the Mayfly in the middle of next week.

Brian,

I was talking to Steve the other day about my gun and indeed he is very happy to talk to you, which ids very comforting. I have also decided on the PES althoug it will be the 32mm diameter mod with no inner tube. We are going to leave the barrel polished so it can act as the inner tube would which is OK given it is stainless.


Rgds,
FB

quote:

Originally posted by 308mate:
Brian go to Young Guns in Castledawson, He sent my Tikka over to Steve Kershaw to have it Threaded, great job and he has rifles going over about every month so it keeps the cost of postage down. he also sells wildcat and PES and good prices

Do you have a contact number for Young Guns?

Regards..

...Titan

A while back I was using an AI that shot tighter groups with the moderator on than it did without.

Nice rifle, pity the army wouldn't let me take it home...

Young Guns 02879 468375 open from 7.00 to 10.00pm mon to fri

quote:

Originally posted by 308mate:
Young Guns 02879 468375 open from 7.00 to 10.00pm mon to fri

Thank you..

...Titan

Ok guys, got the rifle back about ten days ago. It was out of the country for a total of 4 days including shipping time.

I have not really had time to wring the rifle out on a bench rest. I was away on holiday all last week.

The rifle was re-assembled and re-zeroed last week. Re-zeroing took a total of 5 shots, 2 to acheive zero, and 3 for a verifying group.

After being stripped down, sent to Steve Kershaw in England for cutting and threading, shipping back to Ireland and re-assembled, it was about 1.5" off zero. Groups look to be as reliable as always, but I still need to do some work.

The shortened muzzle with the cap:



The wide view with the can on:



Balance has obviously moved forward somewhat, to about .75" in front of the front action screw. Overall length is less than 50mm longer than before. If anything, the handling has actually improved.

In all, damn tasty work by Steve Kershaw.

Wide view sans can. I should say noise reduction is excellent, sounds about like a .22lr shooting stingers: