.

When it comes to hunting in Europe, I understand and can accept trophy fees based on weight or length. I can also accept paying for official tophy measurement and records by the national / regional hunting body. I can accept the practice of tipping and I am happy to tip and do so generously for great guiding and the extra mile.

But what really irritates is when outfitters / guides charge for milage and kilometers. At present the going rate in most Easter European countries is EUR 1,- km.

Now I get it that in the old days the guides used their own cars and trucks and this was a way of getting an extra bit of cash for them. But nowadays almost all have company or estate cars and their fuel bill is invoiced to the company. So basically this is just an extra money spinner for them.

It may add up to 'only' a few hundred Euros over a 4 or 5 day hunt, but when you are paying EUR 3.000 or EUR 4.000 for a trophy plus the day fees, it sure irritates me to be nickled and dimed for kilometers and miles driven on top!

Now I will get down off my soap box.....


.

The fee per kilometer driven is one of the odd things that have developed over time in Europe.

Just as you said, it was due to the fact that guides use their own cars and get their costs covered somewhat. I am not aware of other reasons, maybe there are some.

The only areas I know where it is done today are doing it for that exact reason. It's pretty much still the norm that guides in eastern Europe (especially in hunting clubs) use their own car and get sometimes only a very small payment to guide which would hardly cover the costs of fuel and damage on cars. Because it's a cash payment the areas cannot invoice a hunter for it....

I would be irritated, just like you, if it would be a company car but have never experienced that.

Cheers,
Dennis

So 7-9 l per 100 km times 1,2 € per l so that calculates 12km for 1,2€
I’m using average SUV/SMALL pickup
Yes that is a bit excessive but I get it as Eastern Europe is a bit unreliable at times and greedy bastards to boot
Language barrier on top of it and it is a clusterfuck of epic proportions
Not all , but fair amount so good agent is a must
Oh and I forgot, they love to just take you for couple of hrs in the morning and evening because they have to work…and that drives me nuts as Red deer, sika, fallow deer, roe deer can be easily hunted during the day as well

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:
The fee per kilometer driven is one of the odd things that have developed over time in Europe.

Just as you said, it was due to the fact that guides use their own cars and get their costs covered somewhat. I am not aware of other reasons, maybe there are some.

The only areas I know where it is done today are doing it for that exact reason. It's pretty much still the norm that guides in eastern Europe (especially in hunting clubs) use their own car and get sometimes only a very small payment to guide which would hardly cover the costs of fuel and damage on cars. Because it's a cash payment the areas cannot invoice a hunter for it....

I would be irritated, just like you, if it would be a company car but have never experienced that.

Cheers,
Dennis

Some of the State Forest and Premium Privat hunting grounds PH using Company Cars but by far not all

I don't like 'nickel and dime' pricing.

Haven't hunted Europe or Argentina yet, but I plan to. When I do, I will negotiate ONE PRICE to hunt for the biggest (whatever I'm after) that we can find.

If an outfitter won't do that, I won't hunt with them. Plenty of outfitters are willing to.

quote:

Originally posted by Baker458:
I don't like 'nickel and dime' pricing.

Haven't hunted Europe or Argentina yet, but I plan to. When I do, I will negotiate ONE PRICE to hunt for the biggest (whatever I'm after) that we can find.

If an outfitter won't do that, I won't hunt with them. Plenty of outfitters are willing to.

I had done that
Some are willing and some are not
I totally hate nickel/diming and then they still expect tips…not so fast pardner

Europe being a small and crowded continent, its hunting areas do not have the size or the remoteness you will find in certain hunting areas in North America or in Asia, for example.
Its game populations are actively managed by man to prevent excessive interaction with human interests staying at healthy sustainable densities and to produce big trophies as hunting in Europe, like it or not, is more orientated towards the collection of quality trophies more than towards subsistance or meat hunting.
Then, on top of a better management, there is the fact that areas with a better genetic pool or with better environmental conditions tend to produce the better trophies.
Put this altogether and the result is that the hunting permits or the hunting leases for the better areas sell at a higher price than the rest, and the way to make it up to the owner or leaseholder of the territory is by charging a trophy fee depending on its quality.
In general terms, if you want to pay and all inclusive fee and hunt for the best animal you can find your outfitter will either charge you upfront like you will hunt a top one, or he will take you to an area where a big trophy is very, very seldom found, and it is up to you to judge the fairness of both cases.
Regarding tips, we do not have in Europe the issues that you have in North America, or they have in Africa, where tip is mandatory, and almost embarrasingly high in some cases. Except in those places, maybe, that receive a lot of hunters from the US and the system has somehow been distorted.
It is a cultural thing, another example being restaurants where, as a norm, we will not have a waiter/tress kissing you up and rubbing your back during your lunch, to then throw the bill at your fave if you do not pay him his expected 15%.
I would suggest doing like the Romans if you go to Rome, at least that is what I always do.

Well put montero

I think the issue here is paying extra for km while hunting and other little extras that arriving hunter is not aware of
Otherwise prices in Europe for big game species are very reasonable

I'd much rather pay a little extra initially than get slapped with nebulous amount of Euros at hunt's end.

Mark

By all means - if km/mi fee is to be charged it should be known upfront.

Guys, just found place where they expect you and prefer you using your own 4x4 and of course you pick your guide and drive him around
If not, it’s 0.5£ per km