I'll be taking a small group of university students to Africa in May and will have a one night layover in London on the return that was not originally in the plan. So, I'm looking for a CHEAP, hotel, B&B, etc. near Gatwick to stuff about 8-9 people. Any of the English contingent have suggestions/recommendations for such? Thanks!!

Kernel

Kernal

How you doing, mate?

Sounds like you have the Africa bug really bad!!

Don't know of any hotels down there, but just wanted to warn you about our laws..

If anybody has rifles with them, you need to double check all the regulations...

Basically if the firearms stay "airside" ie they are checked through to the final destination, you should have no problems..

If either the firearms or the ammo comes through customs, you need extra paperwork done in advance, or you will loose them and probably end up in court!

For example, I have heard of some folks getting caught out as they had to transfer between London airports by road and didn't get things sorted in advance..

regards,

Pete

kernel,

Try this:

http://www.gatwick-guesthouses.co.uk/

Kernel,

try the holiday Inn at Crawley or at Gatwick itself. The first is abbout £5-£10 taxi ride away and the other is on the airport area itself.

How come you are flying out of Gatwick to Africa? I didn't think they flew scheduled from there.

If you do have rifles with you give Gunrunner a call via my sign off. He will come and pick up your guns for you, store them then meet you at the airport for your departure. He'll take care of all your paperwork for you in advance.

Rgds,
FB

Thanks for the info guys! I have looked around a bit but was checking to see if the local knowledge had any other suggestions.

Pete,

Doing well on this side of the pond! Yes, I have the Africa bug pretty bad. I've been every year now since 2004. This go round I won't be hunting unfortunately, but I have worked out a plan to have my work pay for the trip so I'm happy to play photo-tourist this time. One of the students will be chasing kudu and other plains game while the rest of us are suffering with some fishing No firearms are travelling with us so I don't think that will be an issue, but thanks for the heads up as I may take this route again in the future!

Doesn't seem like it's been almost 7 years since you were gracious enough to get me cold and wet at your syndicate in Scotland! Still think fondly of that trip quite often.


Gerry,
We'll be laying over in your neck of the woods on the way to Namibia. Planning to just stick it out in the airport rather than day room or anything. The student are young and are happy as long as they can get a beer or two over the course of the day


FB,

Air Namibia flies direct to Windhoek, Namibia (with continuation to SA I think??) a couple times a week by altering their flights between Frankfurt and London.

Cheers all!
Kernel

kernel,

Long-g-g-g layover.

If you decide on a day room select the Holiday Inn - about a 10 minute Taxi ride. Mucho cheaper than the Airport Sheridan. There are some rent-a-showers in Concourse "B" as well and of course; German beer is available at every kiosk for the students!

Most US flights arrive FKT early a.m. and the South African Airways, Lufthansa & Air Namibia - Johannesburg, Capetown & Windhoeck flights depart betweeen 19:00 & 21:00; so could be a 12+ hour layover.

Send me a PM before you deaprt - I'll give you my cell phone number in case anything comes unglued or perhaps just drive down and see how you guys are doing?

Good luck on that flight. The seats on Namib Airs jet suck!

I flew that same route in 2005 on my second trip to Africa. My first was also in 2005, but it was Morocco.

Anywhoo. The flight crew down was perfect, the flight crew back was the native crew, and customer service sucked.

One good aspect, is they kind of let everyone move around. I was assigned a window seat, and the plane was empty excepting the guy sitting next to me. So I moved and wasn't questioned about it. Some Afrikaaners going to London joined me, and we had a couple good hours of BSing before it was time to zonk out.

Man Oh Man, I would NEVER go through London. I sure hope you are not wanting to hunt with your weapons! They will definately be confiscated. No ands, ifs or buts about it, you WILL NOT be able to fly through London with any weapon, and it will take much longer than your layover to sort it out and get them back.

I am an american stationed in Germany, and at our rod and gun club, EVERY single person whop ever travelled to Afrika through London ended up hunting with borrowed weapons, and several had to fly back later to retrieve them.

I also think that Air Namibia is a long site better than any of those faschist american air companies, and you don't have to have the TSA fondle your crotch and your underwear.

Please, save yourself a MAJOR HASSLE, and avoid London. Frankfurt is much better, is much cheaper to stay, and is much safer than London.

Mike,

Shipmate, if you would have read his post you would see that he isn't bringing guns!

So London works!

Why is the rod and gun club more expensive than Kettner or Frankonia?

I couldn't beleive the difference when I was up there last.

The old Navy down here in Italy doesn't have the ability to own firearms.

So stay in Germany!

Mike,

Actually, transisting London with firearms is easy; just follow the rules thats all..

Its actually a lot harder for a vistor to transit the States with firearms these days..Ask any of the Canadian hunters who visit Africa on these forums..American red tape is so bad now, its virtually impossible to comply with..

regards,

Pete

Gerry,

I have done the Frankfurt route a couple times already and know it is a bit long. Means to an end I guess I will PM you soon. Thanks for the offer and the help!

K

DoooH! I guess you're right, I should have read closer to see that Kernel isn't bringing any weapons.

D99 - The reason that the rod and gun is more expensive than both Frankonia and Kettner, is because that is where they buy their items, then mark them up. We've been complaining about that for so long we just give up. It's a long sad tale that just gets uglier every year. But at least we even have a rod abd gun, and they actually do represent a building that we can teach a german hunting course in, and they also have some form of a rifle range. We jokingly call them the rod and paintball club now.

Pete E, where do we find out what the procedures are for both bringing a weapon in the the UK for hunting by invitation, or for travelling through the UK. I usually end up having to take more expensive routes to Murka, in order to avoid the Heathrow airport because I had lost (Had stolen by British Air) a rifle in the past. Do you know where to go to get this info, it would be much appreciated.

Mike

Mike,

Probably the best bet is a combination of asking here and doubling checking what your airline advises...Any info you get from your airline needs to be in writing and get the full name of the advisor who gave it you, along with a *direct* contact number.

In the past, I have found that many airline employees don't really know the rules properly so its best to check a couple of times from a couple of different sources with in the company and also maybe the airlines own website. Print off your info/emails/letters ect and take it with you when you fly as it might help smooth things if theres a problem at check-in

With regards the UK inparticular, in a nut shell, if the firearm is in transit through the airport, and does not need to come through Custom's ie it stays "airside", you don't need any additional paperwork..This is usually the case when your firearm and luggage is "checked-through" to the final destination..

Many airlines do require 48 or 72 hour notice before you turn up with a firearms..BA is one and sticks to it religiously, so get the the travel agent to note it when they book your flight *and* get them to ring up a few days before hand,..make sure it is recorded on their customer booking data base..again get a name and number for the person you spoke to..

There are two scenarios that can catch people out..The British Gov is enforcing a strict arms
embargo to Zim including sporting arms..No British Carrier is allowed to carry any firearms there...If you intend hunting there and flying with say BA or Virgin, you will need to break your journey in RSA or elsewhere, and then book a seperate ticket to Zim via a non British carrier..

Or better avoid British airlines and the UK if going to Zim..

The other scenario is if you are flying into one British airport and out of another..You will need a "bonded carrier" to transfer your firearms for you...they can also look after them if you are fitting a few days sight seeing in London..

Again, people here will give you recomendation who to use, and in truth its not much hassle, just an additional expense..

On what grounds did BA take your rifle?

Was it confiscated offically for some infringement of British law, or was it genuinely stolen/lost in transit?

BA apparently has a new tracking system for firearms in transit which is supposed to be very good..

When I transited through Heathrow a couple of years back, the airport had contracted Securicor to move firarms and other valuables around the airport..I was told that sometimes there are was delays due to the back log of work and that any transit time of less than 3 hours was "risky"

What I did was to hang back until last when boarding my flight, and asked the staff to confirm the rifle hand been put aboard..I also politely explained "for security reasons" I would not board until they confirmed my rifle was aboard..They actually contacted the Load Master who double checked and vouched the rifle was aboard.

If you refuse to board, they have to dig out your luggage, so it is then in their best interests to to ensure the rifle is also the aboard otherwise the flight will be delayed..

I also did this in RSA as well and it worked a treat and gave me additional peace of mind.

If you're visting the UK and entend hunting with somebody, its actually fairly easy..They act as your sponsor and help you apply for a vistor firearm certificate..

Ahead of time, you will need to supply details of the rifle you are bringing, plus possibly a letter from your local Police saying you don't have a criminal record..It normally takes about six weeks and cost about $40, or cheaper if it beeing done for a group..

Each Police Force has a slightly different approach/requirements, so the exact details will depend where you are hunting or where your sponsor lives..

In general, there is no handgun or bow hunting, and no semiauto (expect rimfire) or fully auto firarms..

Assuming you're interested in hunting deer, and without bogging down into the fine details of the law, if you bring a rifle in the .243win to 30-06 class you will be fine for any species or any location and the request should be routine.

Alternatively, you can borrow a rifle from the person you are hunting with and there is no paperwork at all..I did this when i started stalking and there is generally no charge, but I notice some commerical outfitters are now charging visting hunters for "rifle hire"..personally I would not pay this and would tell them so!

You don't need tags to hunt over here, but you do need permission to take game off the landowner or owner of the shooting rights.

In reality your sponsor will be sorting this side out for you ahead of time...

We have six species of deer and long seasons (8 months for some of the bucks) we also have smaller numbers of wild boar and feral goat, but they are not so commercially available to hunt..

Seasons and a bit more info can either be found at www.deer-uk.com or wwww.basc.org.uk


Regards,

Pete

Mike,

that is a very comprehensive reply by Pete and there isn't really anything to add to it.

As long as you are aware of the rules in advance then it's pretty easy to layover in the UK en route to Africa. I know a number of people that have even layed over for 2 days instead of one and taken in a days Fallow stalking close to the airport!!

I've left a message with Gunrunner on my tag today and I will ask him for an indication of costs for a one night layover to take care of a group of hunters firearms. I'll post his reply when I get it.

Hopefully if we convince you to come through london we can grab a beer when you are next in town.

Best regards,
FB

Hi Guys,

I spoke to Gunrunner today and he will be emailing me an outline of the service he provides for layovers in the UK.

Apparently , (whether we like it or not), rifles checked through during a layover have been known to go missing from customs. I thinkn this is more often a security issue due to the handling regulations rather than theft, which is then covered up.... (My thoughts not his.)

He said that he charges £95 for each airport run. (ie; two runs if you are overnighting), but in that he receives the guns and does the paperwork on arrival , and gets you checked in and the rifles through customs before leaving you to go into the departure lounge. If your layover is more than one night it doesn't drastically change the price and he also provides a transfer service into and out of London to your hotel.

Basically if you are transiting London then the money will be quite small in comparison to the cost of the safari or the cost of your wifes shopping bill... (just judging your wives by mines standards!!... )

The other thing he mentioned is that flying through London gives you many more flights from the US, meaning that you may cut out an internal connection, so overall it becomes cheaper to do things this way.

There are no prices on his website because it is a bespoke service but take a look.

Regards,
FB

quote:

I thinkn this is more often a security issue due to the handling regulations rather than theft, which is then covered up..

FB,

I'm not sure i follow what your getting at....surely if a firearm that goes missing from a supposedly secure "bonded" customs area, it is theft, plain and simple???

With regards the Gunrunner service, I suppose that $200 per airport run is not bad if its between a group of hunters, but if thats per person, I hope he has the decency to wear a three cornered hat and a mask when he turns up at the airport!

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:

quote:

I thinkn this is more often a security issue due to the handling regulations rather than theft, which is then covered up..

FB,

I'm not sure i follow what your getting at....surely if a firearm that goes missing from a supposedly secure "bonded" customs area, it is theft, plain and simple???

With regards the Gunrunner service, I suppose that $200 per airport run is not bad if its between a group of hunters, but if thats per person, I hope he has the decency to wear a three cornered hat and a mask when he turns up at the airport!

Regards,

Pete

What I mean by the first thing is that often you don't get the full story from airport staff, because in the UK they need a licence for the guns to be handled by airline staff then the same for the person themselves. What I think happens in these instances is that there is no dedicated firearms section in airports so if guns are found in baggage rooms they areseen as a security threat and dealt with as such. As a customer on the other side of the wall you will only ever get the "lost" story... Just my thoughts so probably not much cop!!

With BA/Easyjet/Cyprus Airways & Virgin I've never had a problem. With Iberia last year my guns couldn't be moved from the room adjoining the baggage hall to the baggage hall because Iberia had let their handling licence lapse. The result was that I had to wait for 2hrs to pick up my guns. I would have paid $200 to get them and be on my way if I thought it possible.

As for the cost, I actually thought it was quite cheap. You have a 100km+ round trip with time and licence/insurance ccosts. We al know what it costs to drive half way round lndon and back with todays fuelprices, not to mention the hoops a courrier has to jump through to get an RFD.

Over all for a lot of people that are going and spending £5k-£20k on a safari then the cost is not ridiculous for the peace of mind. On top of that, like I mentioned, you have many more airports in the US flying to the UK than fly to FFT or Amsterdam, so it may well be cheaper to hire a courrier and cut out a connection.

If 3 of you go to RSA and use Air200 I think it will come in at more than $400... As always the choice is the individuals.

FB