Though this sounds like a crappy canned hunt, the return of driven boar to the UK may make larger calibers more commonplace on FCs.

Also, a bit more PR work may be needed. Bragging about dead dogs won't go very far with the British public...

Yes boggy. I saw said article on sunday as I was scanning through. I think I know where the venue is and I also thought it was a bit of a non article really. Almost as if they thought lets have some sport and wind the anti's up a bit.

Anyway interesting none the less.

Bog,
this place is just down the road from me!
Carminnows sporting its called, just north of Castle Douglas.. God I hope that the anti's dont find it and let them loose!!!
The last lot escapees took ages to find..

regards
griff

Rab,

I'm sure posting the location on the internet will help immensely with their wish to keep the venue a secret....


FB

BTW, welcome to the forum.

What's happening in britain ? More and more news are coming about people loosing their last bit of of mind... Don't they have absolutely nothing else to do to be anti something... Most mainland europa practises driven hunts and to say that this is the easy way is far from truth. Wild boar is very intelligent animal and it takes great planning to perform successful hunt. Of course it's different with canned hunts, which by my belives are not hunting at all... But that's me.

It seems the Daily Mirror had a go as well in 2001. I can see the point of organised driven hunting to reduce the population in a forestry block but breeding them and hunting them in an enclosure is typical of the 'shoot as many as fast as you can and back to the office in London for a 6 o'clock meeting' that seems to be endemic in the other driven shooting going on in the UK.

Mark

Hopefully driven hunting will get more popular as the boar population increases. I hope it doesn't become the next cause celebre for the antis.

I think the trick is to make it sound like work, rather than fun. Deer stalkers are very good at this, using words such as 'cull' and lots of silly qualifications .

So driven boar should be called a 'forced movement culling exercise' where a 'highly trained team' of beaters push animals to 'expertly trained marksmen with high powered rifles' to ensure a clean kill and achieve 'cull targets'.

I will be available to attend and certify all such events!

I prefer loads of dogs, low powered rifles and a 'polish hunting club' NZ style

Bog - Have you lost your mind! Why dont you give the antis a GPS reading! I hope you are very sure that you have got the right estate.
I thought all hunters should stick together but it is quite obvious that you are just hoping the antis will cut the guys fence & hopefully give YOU a bit of free shooting!
Absolutely disgracefull indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by rab logan:
Bog,
this place is just down the road from me!
Carminnows sporting its called, just north of Castle Douglas.. God I hope that the anti's dont find it and let them loose!!!
The last lot escapees took ages to find..

regards
griff

Hell, for that type of money they can hunt here in South Africa. And will not be bothered by any antis.

550 pound is basically 3 days daily rates here by us. And warthogs and bushpig at 150 a piece. Plus many more species.

??

I just posted the article on here, it has already been in a national newspaper, so calm down.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Carr:
Bog - Have you lost your mind!
I thought all hunters should stick together but it is quite obvious that you are just hoping the antis will cut the guys fence & hopefully give YOU a bit of free shooting!
Absolutely disgracefull indeed.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by rab logan/Griff: etc.......

Hi Pete.

Welcome to the forum. I note that it was not Boghossian who mentioned an estate by name.

Being London based, I fancy your concerns about Bog getting free stalking are also misplaced.

Am I right in guessing that this was a shoot you organized?

Rgds Ian

Ian/Bog - Sincere apologies! I see that it was not Bog but Grif that mentioned the estate by name, dissapointment still applies (directed at grif.) Not guilty on all other accounts. Regards - Peter.

Griff - Whoops! Apologies again to Griff after viewing the posts carefully I see that it was actually Rab Logan that named the estate.All of us should stand together against the bunny hugging brigade or the hunting we currently enjoy will be consigned to history sooner rather than later. Regards - Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Carr:
Bog - Have you lost your mind!
I thought all hunters should stick together but it is quite obvious that you are just hoping the antis will cut the guys fence & hopefully give YOU a bit of free shooting!
Absolutely disgracefull indeed.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by rab logan/Griff: etc.......

Hi Pete.

Welcome to the forum. I note that it was not Boghossian who mentioned an estate by name.

Being London based, I fancy your concerns about Bog getting free stalking are also misplaced.

Am I right in guessing that this was a shoot you organized?

Rgds Ian

Hi Peter
Don't worry about it.

Can you tell us a bit about how it went?

Unless driven shooting is marketed as the best solution for controlling boar populations, I fear it will be the next target for the antis.

Regards

Gabriel

Hi all,
please accept my apologies for not replying earlier,have just moved house and have no internet access at the moment!
first let me address Peter Carr,
Carminnows is no stranger to publicity, having had several articles printed and the recent one in the sunday times does not indicate that they wish to remain anonymous!
They also have a website advertising their wares, so don't give me this crap that i'm letting the cat out of the bag.
Its obvious that P.C is not from this area as Carminnows for one reason or another is never far from the localnews.
So just let me give you the "Facts".I stalked Carminnows for 10 years before it was sold to the current owners. so have a reasonable knowledge of the ground.My first introduction to Carminnows was two stalkers i met in my local village who had just returned from a wild boar hunt.They explained to me that they had spent all afternoon searching for a boar that had been released into an 80 acre pen, they evebtually found it asleep under a tree next to the fence, the guide then went up and kicked it and it was shot running down the fence. The second incident was a friend who booked to shoot a "large boar" turned up 2 hours early only to find it being led out of its pen loaded into the back of a quad trailer..
Now if thats what floats your boat, then so be it, but what if find extremely offensive is the statement that "we band of hunters should stick together",DO NOT include me your band of hunters if this is the kind of hunting you are condoning.I have never given this operation the thumbs up or thumbs down, but to associate this with the sport of hunting if find as I have said before OFFENSIVE.


The article in the Times clearly stated that they were shooting a large number of boar on a regular basis,given the size of Carminnows (800acres) of which boar are only a small part they must be farming them on a large scale,with that in mind they must be classed a a farm if they are breeding them in such large numbers, and be approved by the relevant authorities.
If that is the case then the boar can only be culled by licensed vets..
Thus making the whole operation illegal.

So if this is the kind of Hunting we can accept and condone then I'm going to hang up my rifle and take up knitting..

Peter Carr,

Next time you reply to thread on AR make sure that you in possesion of all the facts and don't assume that you can include everyone in your wee band of bubba's..

there might be members out there that find the idea of a canned hunt repugnant!

regards
griff

I have stayed out of this, but I agree completely with Griff on this one. Crap like this will get us all a bad name.

Feckers like Carminnows can hang on their own...

Griff,

Would you be kind enough to give me a link to their website please?

Griff - Contradiction 1/ quote "The recent article in the Sunday Times does not indicate they wish to be anonymous!" - Clearly it does as reported in the times. Contradiction 2/ quote "They also have a website advertising their wares so don't give me this crap that I'm letting the cat out of the bag." - Please give me the web address because I dont belive there is one? Contradiction 3/ quote "I stalked carminnows for 10 years before it was sold to the current owners." - Then in your own words you declare that quote "Your first introduction to carminnows was two stalkers you met in the local village," come on Griff which was it? Contradiction 4/ (Probably the biggest yet!) "The second incident was a friend who booked to shoot a large boar" - If what you previously stated was true about your first introduction to carminnows (selective memory loss accepted,)then you must be SOME FREIND!
If the other incidents you allege are true, be assured that does not float my boat.
You then go on to suggest that I should be aware of the facts. Are we to belive what is printed in the tabloids as fact? I suggest it is you who is not aware of the facts. Any hunter of reasonable experience who read the said article would of seen straight through the sensationalised exaggerated croc of guano that it really was. Remember the tabliod press get a little fact then x it by a 1000 and print what they want. Tell me Griff, did you really belive it?
Or are you still upset because you lost your stalking at carminnows when the present owner bought the place? (A reasonable assumption taken from the facts you have stated.) It is also quite obvious that you hope the antis cut the fence to provide you some free shooting in the area, you are not so bothered about shooting the said animals then. My original remarks where & still are, we should not take newspaper reports at face value, that is just being nieve. Griff you have an obvious axe to grind, you must have your reasons. But as a whole we all should stand together unless concrete facts say otherwise. Every stalker/hunter has different views & exeperience. Some amature stalkers who have spent years chasing roe around bleak hills & compact spruce blocks occasioinally shooting one, claim to be experienced hunters. Do not get me wrong, evry one is entitled to an opinion but let it be after carefull consideration, lest we inadvertantly hang one of our own! Division in the ranks is the road to ruin for all of our sport.
Griff, I am also at a loss to understand who are my "wee band of brothers?" Are you anti English too? Do you refer to the Duke of Cumberlands boys who met your guys at Culloden Moor? Pray do tell. Regards - Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
Hi all,
please accept my apologies for not replying earlier,have just moved house and have no internet access at the moment!
first let me address Peter Carr,
Carminnows is no stranger to publicity, having had several articles printed and the recent one in the sunday times does not indicate that they wish to remain anonymous!
They also have a website advertising their wares, so don't give me this crap that i'm letting the cat out of the bag.
Its obvious that P.C is not from this area as Carminnows for one reason or another is never far from the localnews.
So just let me give you the "Facts".I stalked Carminnows for 10 years before it was sold to the current owners. so have a reasonable knowledge of the ground.My first introduction to Carminnows was two stalkers i met in my local village who had just returned from a wild boar hunt.They explained to me that they had spent all afternoon searching for a boar that had been released into an 80 acre pen, they evebtually found it asleep under a tree next to the fence, the guide then went up and kicked it and it was shot running down the fence. The second incident was a friend who booked to shoot a "large boar" turned up 2 hours early only to find it being led out of its pen loaded into the back of a quad trailer..
Now if thats what floats your boat, then so be it, but what if find extremely offensive is the statement that "we band of hunters should stick together",DO NOT include me your band of hunters if this is the kind of hunting you are condoning.I have never given this operation the thumbs up or thumbs down, but to associate this with the sport of hunting if find as I have said before OFFENSIVE.


The article in the Times clearly stated that they were shooting a large number of boar on a regular basis,given the size of Carminnows (800acres) of which boar are only a small part they must be farming them on a large scale,with that in mind they must be classed a a farm if they are breeding them in such large numbers, and be approved by the relevant authorities.
If that is the case then the boar can only be culled by licensed vets..
Thus making the whole operation illegal.

So if this is the kind of Hunting we can accept and condone then I'm going to hang up my rifle and take up knitting..

Peter Carr,

Next time you reply to thread on AR make sure that you in possesion of all the facts and don't assume that you can include everyone in your wee band of bubba's..

there might be members out there that find the idea of a canned hunt repugnant!

regards
griff

Erm, this is all rather unsettling for a novice like me. It was also the first bit of boar shooting I had seen advertised in the UK. All other talk i've heard seems to say that uk boar stalking is very much a closed circle.

In conclusion i'm not sure if i'm qualified, due to lack of experience, on a nother man's sport but i feel bound to say i didn't take up stalking to shoot half asleep beasts sleeping off lunch

I did a Google search for this estate, and kept coming up with many hits of them donating hunts to SCI.

Their linked website, is no longer active. And another article was seems to have been published a while back dealing with the same issues discussed here.

Relevant article

Ghubert - I also would not consider shooting a half asleep beast sleeping off its lunch - unless of course it was a maneating lion/leopard then I would very much prefer it to be in full slumber! Boar shooting in the home counties is not such a closed shop, I am sure if you search the internet you will get a result, if not buy the Sporting Rifle Magazine from WH Smith or subscribe from Blaze Publishing on 0870 468778 they have covered boar in the UK & abroad. Regards - Peter.

Saeed - A while back... 7 years. Boys club? Come on is that really belivable?
Regards - Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I did a Google search for this estate, and kept coming up with many hits of them donating hunts to SCI.

Their linked website, is no longer active. And another article was seems to have been published a while back dealing with the same issues discussed here.

Relevant article

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your pointers, i've just been to smiths and i think i've now seen your picture!

I'll take a look in the ads at the back and see what can be done

Saeed I did a google search but it turned up the same stuff as you i'm sure a telephone number can be provided by pm, just not from the likes of me

Amir

Peter,

You seem to be taking people to task for posting what they have seen somewere else.

May be you can enlighten us on the facts instead.

Are hunts being conducted on this estate?

How big is it?

What animals are being hunted?

What number is shot every year?

I suspect I am no different than most people on these forums. We enjoy hunting, and probably look with a rather reserved attitude towards what is reported as being done at this estate -"canned" hunting for better word.

I won't do it myself, but I have no problems of others enjoying it.

Please let us have your input, i am sure it is of interest to a lot of us.

Saeed - I am not taking people to task at all. I just feel that it is unfair to cast opinions based on media hype.
I cannot give you details on cull figures or any other details as I do not have that information. The estate does provide free range stalking for roe deer, reed deer & wild goats. I belive it also has some very good duck flighting & rough shooting. Yes it does have a deer park as do many other other estates in the United Kingdom.
I just feel that this estate is getting unwarranted flack based on tabloid trash, from people who really should no better.

Regards - Peter.
Again all

Peter,

I am no fan of the media, and have personal experience where they have actually edited my replies to fit in with their own agenda - basically changing the meaning of what I ave written!!?

But, this still does not answer some questions.

has there been boar shooting as described in that article?

If not, why don't you and those in charge there take te editors to task for reporting something which is not true.

Saeed - At least we agree on one thing. I cannot answer questions on somebody elses behalf. I also have no desire to take on national newspapers on other peoples behalf either. I just did not like people giving opinions based on media hype or because they had there own axe to grind.
Best regards - Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Peter,

I am no fan of the media, and have personal experience where they have actually edited my replies to fit in with their own agenda - basically changing the meaning of what I ave written!!?

But, this still does not answer some questions.

has there been boar shooting as described in that article?

If not, why don't you and those in charge there take te editors to task for reporting something which is not true.

I wanted pretty much to stay out of this but feel compelled to chime in.

I was some years ago now not short of conned by the people who run this estate into hunting what were meant to be "wild" boar only later to see one of the farm hands feeding the so called "wild" boar from the back of a quad with cattle nuts!! I had definitely been had and a valuable lesson learnt. I felt worse because the guys running the place made a big deal about how wary the boar were and duck down this way and that and crawl around here etc etc. What a load of

I also didn't necessarily want to share my experince openly as I also find it embarrasing that I was had.

The estate in question is reknowned for canned hunts. It is not a deer park it is specifically set up for people who want a specific trophy. They did have Pere David, Fermosan Sika, American Elk etc. A better description would be to liken it to a zoo. If you are into that then fine but I honestly cannot understand the motivation or mental state of mind of those who do choose to participate in this kind of hunting. I find it utterly depressing. I can guarantee that the boar featured in the Sunday Times article will be tame to one extent or another. Again if you want to shoot a farm animal then find but I find it sickening to say the least.

Jon2,

I suspect you are right about the zoo aspect. Off hand, I can't think of another Estate in the UK with such a bad reputation for offering "canned hunts" for species like Pere David and Fermosian Sika.

Sorry you got taken for a ride, but I have heard similar stories off other stalkers...

Peter,

Would you be Peter Carr the Sporting Agent and if so, do you send clients to Carminnows?

BTW, from Griffs accent, I am pretty sure he's English, so please don't try to play the race card...

Regards,

Peter

Jon 2 - This estate is certainly not a Zoo. It does indeed have a deer park. Yes it has Pere David deer but these are not to my knowledge shot. I know of a number of other high profile estates that do shoot exotic deer on quite a big scale. I am not going to be drawn into a debate on hunting in or out of Parks. Apart from this, most established deer parks have a certain amount of animals to cull each year & often clients are brought in to assit in the cull the revenue created supports staff & the the animals in question. Where is the problem in this. I would not pay to do this but then I have been fortunate enough to have hunted a lot of game worldwide. As long as the animal is culled in a responsible manner I have no problem with it, indeed some of our most ancient deer parks in England would not be here today if it was not from the revenue created. If the client is well informed about what to expect & he makes the decision to assist in a deer park cull then thats up to him. That will have to be all I have to say now boys because I leave on a hunting trip tomorrow.

Regards - Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon2:
I wanted pretty much to stay out of this but feel compelled to chime in.

I was some years ago now not short of conned by the people who run this estate into hunting what were meant to be "wild" boar only later to see one of the farm hands feeding the so called "wild" boar from the back of a quad with cattle nuts!! I had definitely been had and a valuable lesson learnt. I felt worse because the guys running the place made a big deal about how wary the boar were and duck down this way and that and crawl around here etc etc. What a load of

I also didn't necessarily want to share my experince openly as I also find it embarrasing that I was had.

The estate in question is reknowned for canned hunts. It is not a deer park it is specifically set up for people who want a specific trophy. They did have Pere David, Fermosan Sika, American Elk etc. A better description would be to liken it to a zoo. If you are into that then fine but I honestly cannot understand the motivation or mental state of mind of those who do choose to participate in this kind of hunting. I find it utterly depressing. I can guarantee that the boar featured in the Sunday Times article will be tame to one extent or another. Again if you want to shoot a farm animal then find but I find it sickening to say the least.

Jon/Saeed
don,t waste your time on this fool, he is not willing to accept the facts, and obviously has a connection to this estate. The Times were in Fact invited by the estate so it was not investigative journalism but a introduction to what happens there...

Jon as your o'l man would say "never argue with a fool it just brings you down to his level".

regards
griff

Bloody hell even my old man's been brought into it now

Griff this will be my last response on this as you are correct in your assumption I feel about PC.

Peter this may offend you and you have made your views crystal clear to me but you are not the kind of "hunter" I like to associate with.

And might I add the tone of this thread is not what we"re used to here either. Perhaps PC would feel more at home on some of the other more "robust" forums on this site!
good shooting
(I look forward to seeing some of you in a few weeks!)

Am I right in the assumption that you are now the new Manager of said estate Mr Peter Carr. And as it is only 800 acres, this is a postage stamp for Scotland in my book. I also believe it is fenced into 4 areas, and entirely fenced off from the outside world. Much like a zoo.

Not the type of place a good ethical hunter would visit, I shall keep an eye open in the Hunting Report. As I am sure there will be comments made in the near future.

quote:

Originally posted by Sikamalc:
Am I right in the assumption that you are now the new Manager of said estate Mr Peter Carr. And as it is only 800 acres, this is a postage stamp for Scotland in my book. I also believe it is fenced into 4 areas, and entirely fenced off from the outside world. Much like a zoo.

Not the type of place a good ethical hunter would visit, I shall keep an eye open in the Hunting Report. As I am sure there will be comments made in the near future.

The silence is deafning!

I always get a funny feeling when I get emails from people outside the forums asking me to delete a thread.

And as our policy has always been not to delete anything, unless absolutely necessasry, I thought I will just watch this thread and see.

And, sadly, my worst fears have been confirmed.

"Us hunters should stick together" means different things to different people it would seem.

I wonder why Peter has evaded all our questions?

I have to agree with the general feeling expressed here that this type of "canned" hunting is abhorrent and has nothing to do with the principles of "fair chase" which most of us adhere to. I fully accept that deer in parks and enclosures have to be culled, usually with a rifle, and who could blame an estate for taking the money from idiots that are prepared to pay handsomly for the privilege of taking the larger stags but it's not what most of us do or condone.

Hunting for boar in the UK is not a closed shop and a member of this forum who has so far remained silent did a lot to give the average bloke access to it. I stalked wild UK boar with him in Herefordshire and was fortunate enough to get two and the UK's first Gold Medal was shot on the same ground last year.

Stalking for boar is also available in Kent, Sussex and Dorset and parts of Devon and Wales will not be far behind.

I think (and hope) that it will be a long time before we see drives for wild boar in this country. The incidence of wounded animals would be too high for most sensibilities and it would be a backward step harking back to the bad old days of indiscriminate deer drives.