Does anyone have any experience or anything about the Merkel B3 O/U --- I have a chance to buy one chambered in .30/06 ... not with the scope shown.

It has 21 1/2" barrels, an adjustable single trigger and it has a regulation adjusment fixture (?) at the muzzle.

Think it will work for driven boar with a bit smaller scope something like the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24mm with an illuminated circle-dot reticle?

Nice gun Bill! O/U doubles are very popular for driven boar here in Europe. They are a fairly upmarket choice, as they normally lack the versatility of a bolt action, but they offer that immediate second shot, which a lot of people appreciate for driven hunting. So it is a specialized choice.

How well will it work for you?? How do you get on with the trigger, does the gun swing well for you, can you shoot it well?? Will it shoot heavy-ish bullets (min 180 grs, say) well, will it provide reasonable accuracy for a 1-2 combination?? What are the issues of barrel regulation with different ammunition, do you know what the gun shoots and can you ensure a continued supply of this ammo in the future?? In spite of its regulation feature, doubles are more complicated in terms of ammo than single barrel rifles, in particular they are not rifles you want to develop new ammo for every month...

The barrels are soldered, that means the gun will be lighter than a double with un-soldered barrels. With its double configuration it will not exactly be a mountain rifle, but heavy is good for driven hunting. The soldered barrels will likely cause changing POI from barrel heat. This is less than a problem for its intended purpose, but will mean you have to take a while longer when sighting in, etc. Absolute accuracy means fairly little in driven hunting, but it is important that the two barrels shoot to the same POI (within reason - 2-3", say) when fired in the prescribed order and within the prescibed period of time (is it 10 or 20 seconds at 60 or 70 yds?).

The low power Swaro scope you have in mind would round this gun off very well for its intended purpose. It will travel well in a take-down case.

Good luck

- mike

Bill

Thanks previously on advice about BC Grizzly. I have sorted that hunt out. WIll update.

I have some experience with double rifles setup to share with you.

Firstly the hog style stock has a lot of drop. This will make the muzzle flip quite a bit between shots. There is nothing you can do about it but bear that in mind if you are looking for top results with your second follow on shot.

A straight coomb will definitely have less muzzle flip.

My first douuble was like that with 40 +mm of drop at heel and effectively it was a single shot rifle.

By the time I recovered the game if gone.

All my doubles now have straight comb.

Trust me I shoot a lot of trap and this is a real disadvantage in a double - s/s or o/u

21.5 inches is might short for 30-06. You probably have more years of experience than us combined with this caliber. It is likely you will set fire to the Black forest .............

As for scope choice, you really cannot go wrong with what you suggested in your post but definitely not a leupold.

Most important buy it for the right price.

There is also a lot of vertical grain in the stock. If I am being ultra critical when custom ordering a rifle like this, I will discard this block. Subjective recoil as a result will be higher.

I would suggest also for you to call Merkel and check the price of a 20 bore smooth barrel. You will have to send it to be fitted at the factory. Then you will have a gentleman's hunting setup fit for any European estate.

Another point is that this gun has a single selective trigger. This will not be good for DG. Do you get much driven boar in sunny california ?

Hope this helps

Ben, since the O/U rifle is almost exclusively a Central European occurence, it will probably be hard to find one with a straight rear stock. As much as I appreciate your views of muzzle rise vs. stock drop, firearms tend to follow fashion - and in Central (Germanic) Europe that currently means hogs back stocks.

Fortunately, muzzle flip will depend a lot on weight - in particular barrel weight. The double rifle barrels will definitely cut down on flip. A lot of the (single barrel, bolt action) rifles made in Central Europe come with hogs back stocks - e.g. my first R93. I don't know of anybody who really considers them a disadvantage when it comes to driven hunting.

The good thing about rifle shooting - as opposed to shotgunning - is that it relies on sighting. Follow up shots are a lot slower than you'd experience with a shotgun. (Probably for that reason, nobody makes shotguns with hogs back stocks...).

- mike

The rifle, by itself, weighs a little more than 6 1/4 pounds and the mount and Swarovski scope would add another 2 pounds bringing it to not quite 8 1/2 pounds.

With respect to "local use", I live near Los Angeles where "drive-by" shootings aren't that uncommon, However, as far as I know there aren't any driven hunts. I

'm working on making my first driven hunt in Croatia (or anywhere) later this year and I've always been interested in double rifles so it would be a good excuse to buy one -- and if I enjoy the hunt I can see it being an annual event ---- and the price, to me, seems very reasonable.

Bill

Is the rifle you are thinking about buyiong the EXACT rifle in the picture???

If so that wood is awsome.

30-06, with @21" barrels, that will be one neat sweet hunting gun. I say go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
The rifle, by itself, weighs a little more than 6 1/4 pounds

That is surprisingly light!

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
The rifle, by itself, weighs a little more than 6 1/4 pounds

That is surprisingly light!

- mike

Probably down to the short barrels Mike. What do O/U doubles usually weigh? They are not something I have looked at much in the past.

FB

Thats exactly what I mean. I did not want to disagree with you. You have your point however this stock is not ideal for the Merkel. Its rather historical....if you know wht I mean.

I have all my doubles modified with not more than 20mm drop. When I went to my stockmaker in Brescia for a replacment stock he thought I was mad. After he finished the stock we shot the Rigby together the differnece is significant.

With Hogs back stock I would say for my capabiliy I can get back on sight picture within 03 - 04 seconds after first shot.
With a stright coomb shall we say half the time required.

Both stocks are correct just the 20mm setup works more efficiently.

That's from my limited experience.

Ben, nothing wrong with a bit of friendly disagreement. I really believe what you say: less drop at heel will likely mean less muzzle-flip, will mean faster follow-up.

It is just not all of us who have the privilege of using custom (Brescia) gunsmiths, so we make do as best we can with factory options. If Bill is willing to have his new O/U restocked, that would be a marvellous option.

Right off the top of my head, I can't think of too many manufacturers outside Germany or Austria who make quality O/U doubles (at my own peril, I'm excluding Spanish and Italian manufacturers, who normally produce doubles based on shotgun systems). Chances are, that all of these will offer their guns with hogs back stocks.

Not all, but most German and Austrian rifles (bolt action, single shot, Blasers etc) will come with hogs back stocks these days - at least if made for Central European markets. Or if not hogs back, then perhaps Monte Carlo - which also has more drop than a straight rear stock. Tons of these rifles are used for driven boar, and their owners probably never realize how handicapped that leaves them...

Bill, Kiri, I just checked the weight of the Merkel B3, and it is indeed listed at 6.4 lbs. That is light for a double! The soldered barrels allow the manufacturer to keep the individual barrels thin. Looks nice that way.

I personally find 22" barrels about right for a .30-06. So somehow I have a hard time time considering 55cm (~21.7") really short.

- mike

Hi Mike

No problems. This forum is great to SHARE experiences and ideas.

One thing I have done before very successfully is to strip the barrel links and line the space between the 02 barrels with lead.

One can relocate the balance point of the rifle this way. Nobody even knows its there.

The nett result is shooting machine with amazing smothness and control agreesion.

I learned this trick from Danielle Perazzi himself. I must say not an easy procedure to get right the first time.

In total 400 - 500 grams of lead for a 1.5 kilogram barrel, will do the trick.

I have this modified on my competition gun and another double rifle and it really works.........

Mike are you going to Croatia ?

Might see you there then.

You can try it out.

Honestly NO FLIP at all.

If you can get this rifle for a good price I'd say go for it.
I have a simelar Merkel o/u in 8x57JRS that is older than I am and it's still going strong.
If this will be your first double rifle then great.
The O/U will regulate a little easier for you but unless you don't reload I'd stay away from that regulation adjusment untill your absolutely sure you need to make a change.

There will be some advantages and disadvantages with regards to the dementions of this rifle. MHO and Londonhunter have both made good points and both accurate in what they are saying.

Regardles of how straight the stock is on this double it will have notisable muzzel climb because of the short barrels. I'd say just live with it and realize that your follow up shot may be slightly slower than with another double that is heavyer,with longer barrels and straight comb. But? Is't the small size of this rifle one of the things that make it so attractive.
You will love it the first time you take it apart and stick it in your backpack along with your hunting knife and bino's. Packed away out of the rain and will be ready to go in seconds after you reach you hunting area.
I've taken a number of wild boar in northern California with my O/U merkel and it seems to be the perfect rifle for there. Unlike the driven boar hunts I've done in Europe where you casully walk to your stand and wait for the drive to begin. In your state pig hunting means lots of chasing dogs up one mountain then down the other side then up the next. That 6&1/2 pound Merkel will be perfect for that.

Ben, AKshooter,

I actually believe in heavier guns, so the idea of balancing the gun with some lead in the foreend is a viable one. Although not if you like them light...

Ben, I had considered coming to Croatia, but I decided I had enough driven boar shooting during this period of time, to spend another weekend away from the family (plus my bank account is bound to be dead come fall... ). I envy you guys going, though, and wish you lots of Weidmannsheil!

Maybe if Kiri sets up another AR shoot again this coming Feb/Mar in the UK, we will hook up again.

- mike

I like the B3 but think that the Heym is a nicer rifle. And the price is lower.

Cabelas has a 30-06 Blaser B97 double rifle for $6000 or 7000.

I like the Merkel, but not the wierd wood sideplates, as it is unusal for the wood to match.

Seth, not that I want to give the impression I'm cheering for the Merkel. I'm not! I basically think a double is not a bad idea for driven hunting, but ONLY if the shooter gets on with the gun in question.

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, I don't know if I think the Merkel is particularly good looking or not. Heym, on the other hand makes some of the best looking combined guns in Europe. It is seldom I see such elegant lines as in a Heym. BUT, one must admit the Merkel has a huge advantage in terms of its locking mechanism. The "Jaeger" lock (also used in the Blaser K77 or K95, say), is the absolute strongest lock-up option for a breaktop gun! For me, that would be a big plus for the Merkel.

- mike

Mike I agree on that, the old enclosed breech system is tough. I think even tougher than a clamshell made of steel.

I like the looks of Merkel's Drilling the best out of conventional ones (rifle on bottom guys), but I still like the D99 over all the rest. Just can't find a reasonable priced one anymore, they are all damn near $10,000. Too much for me, especially when used Blaser S-2 and Krieghoff double rifles are running $7500-9500 in Safari calibers. And I know where a Merkel 200 series gun is with 3 barrels sets for $10,000 (9.3x74 x 9.3x74, 16 x 6.5x57R, and 16x16).

Hard to beat the old Heym 26B for $5500! When you can't buy a newer bockdrilling or anything similar for the same money.

I know Heym made a production drilling, and I know where one is but does anyone know why they stopped and are now only making hand made drillings. They make the SR21, SR30, and B26 on a machine and the rest of their guns are handmade and have handmade prices.

This is a very handsome gun, even with that ugly Yellow ringed bastard on it.

Some times the false wood sideplates match the wood and sometimes they don't. It appears here they are ok. I don't know why they don't make a funeral grade gun with no sideplates and a black receiver. Maybe they do? Anyone know, I don't think it is in my Merkel catalog.

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