After a short spell of initial activity and interest. This UK Deer Dog Register appears to have ground to a dead stop.

There are a couple of AR members with their names on the UKDDR.

I'd be interested in finding out what their experience's have been since registering.

As there are at least 3 different people/groups/organisations attempting to achieve what I perceive to be exactly the same thing, and I have been standing on the touchline waiting to see who would be the best to sign up with.

Looking at the web site here it seems to have died a death.

There's a small group sprung up called south england deer trackers or some such name. Who are doing their best to attract new members and have run a couple of group training days. Their biggest obstacle to success is the one of the guys involved. I understand there are fledgling groups in E Anglia and the NE, but I don't have details of them at present.

Richard Evans off here is I understand still trying to get something off the ground. But apart for his initial training day run earlier this year has had little visible.

Personally I don't see a national register working. Local mutual assistance groups might. However the complexity of the law makes any formal arrangemnets extremely difficult.

Those countries where formal registers or groups do operate, don't have the same level of legal complexities we are faced with here in the UK.

The problem with this idea is that there are too many voices and opinions. There's no concensus
It's been discussed by those in my area and the fear is that it will only be a matter of time before its' used against us and it becomes a blanket legislation that we must have immediate access to a dog / own a dog. Then some numpty will decide to slap additional quals in with a raft of laws thinly disguised as a method of restricting our rights.
It's for this reason that i and others have chosen not to participate and will continue to work (make available to others) our dogs locally. It's a real shame as i know of at least 2 guys who are fantastic and would make great trainers.

quote:

Originally posted by ScotsGun:
The problem with this idea is that there are too many voices and opinions. There's no concensus
It's been discussed by those in my area and the fear is that it will only be a matter of time before its' used against us and it becomes a blanket legislation that we must have immediate access to a dog / own a dog. Then some numpty will decide to slap additional quals in with a raft of laws thinly disguised as a method of restricting our rights.
It's for this reason that i and others have chosen not to participate and will continue to work (make available to others) our dogs locally. It's a real shame as i know of at least 2 guys who are fantastic and would make great trainers.

I couldn't agree more. There are one or two currently pushing various options. But as we all suspect. They principally have their own vested interests at the heart of those options.

There is always the possibility that those against us will latch on to any voluntary scheme and try to use it for their own ends. DCS quals are a prime example. The continual adding of onerous prerequisites has always been their favourite ploy in securing their aims through indirect confrontation. Denmark is a classic example of where such requirements are now firmly embedded.

Local is definitely the way to go.IMO There are plenty of skilled experienced dog handlers/owners out there who given the right encouragement with some decent facilities added into the mix, can and could provide some great training for those less experienced. Fortunately for me I can call on a couple of experts if I run into problems with my deer dog training. Other than that its pretty basic stuff.

quote:

There's a small group sprung up called south england deer trackers or some such name. Who are doing their best to attract new members and have run a couple of group training days. Their biggest obstacle to success is the one of the guys involved.

Please could you elaborate as to what you are implying here as i hav no idea what you are talking about
you also say

quote:

Personally I don't see a national register working. .

Why not??
As there already is a nationwide infra-structure in place and working

quote:

Those countries where formal registers or groups do operate, don't have the same level of legal complexities we are faced with here in the UK.

so what is so different????

quote:

Please could you elaborate as to what you are implying here as i hav no idea what you are talking about

Oh! I think you know. If you don't you soon will.

quote:

Why not??
As there already is a nationwide infra-structure in place and working

For the reason alreadys stated elsewhere of which you have been a contributing party to the discussions, admittedly under differing names. The necessary " nationwide infra-structure" is not there and is not working. Those best placed to provide the necessary nationwide infra-structure have realised that, if they can't make it work then I don't know who can or will. Another reason is there are to many looking to gain from this, to make it worthwhile and feasible.

" in this world there's no such thing as a free lunch!"

quote:

so what is so different????

The law! The clue was in the wording "don't have the same level of legal complexities we are faced with here in the UK." But as above, you have been involved in that discussion else where, and I see little point in re hashing past threads from across various fora. Especially ones you have been knee deep in.

Parkes and Thonrleys Deer: Law and Liabilities and their Fair Game The law of Country Sports and the Protection of Wildlife would be a good place to start looking for a more detailed explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Mix:


Oh! I think you know. If you don't you soon will.

why evade the question asked??
you made the statement about South of England or don't you really know ???
i wonder which it is

quote:

For the reason alreadys stated elsewhere of which you have been a contributing party to the discussions, admittedly under differing names. The necessary " nationwide infra-structure" is not there and is not working. Those best placed to provide the necessary nationwide infra-structure have realised that, if they can't make it work then I don't know who can or will

this must be your favourite joke
'What do you call a deer with no eyes'



regards

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:
why evade the question asked??
you made the statement about South of England or don't you really know ???
i wonder which it is

i'm not evading the question.
I'm simply refusing to give you an answer you already know.
lets sit and wait for the inevitable
and then we can both say "told you so"!!!!

quote:

this must be your favourite joke
'What do you call a deer with no eyes'

lets think? wouldn' be something beginning with dick would it?
suppose i could always say i have no i deer.
but then it wouldn't be true


Do you have anything to add to the discussion by why of information, advice, insight, or are you here simply for the corny jokes?

i wonder which it is

have a nice day now

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Mix:
suppose i could always say i have no i deer.
but then it wouldn't be true

you made the statement and now refusing to answer the question
So disscussion over there

quote:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion by why of information, advice, insight, or are you here simply for the corny jokes?

i wonder which it is

have a nice day now

i add info which you refused to believe and come out with this as a reply

quote:

The necessary " nationwide infra-structure" is not there and is not working. Those best placed to provide the necessary nationwide infra-structure have realised that, if they can't make it work then I don't know who can or will.

so the deer joke was quite relevant in this case


Have a nice day

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Mix:
suppose i could always say i have no i deer.
but then it wouldn't be true

you made the statement and now refusing to answer the question
So disscussion over there

quote:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion by why of information, advice, insight, or are you here simply for the corny jokes?

i wonder which it is

have a nice day now

i add info which you refused to believe and come out with this as a reply

quote:

The necessary " nationwide infra-structure" is not there and is not working. Those best placed to provide the necessary nationwide infra-structure have realised that, if they can't make it work then I don't know who can or will.

so the deer joke was quite relevant in this case


Have a nice day

Richard

Obviously you are having problems finding something relevant and informative to add to the discussion, and simply wish to continue muttering away in the back ground over irrelevancies and perceived personal slights. That is your prerogative, as it is mine to ignore you. If you care to support you claims with some sort of evidence, any evidence would do, I'd be happy to continue the discussion. The only problem I can for see is there is no evidence to support your claim. Unless that is this so called national infra-structure exists in some kind of parallel dimension as yet unknown to the rest of us.


Game, set, and match.

now then Tom
you are right
there is no point disscussing the matter any further, as you can't see what is already there

you will just hav to wait and see
but what was the real reason why you revived this thread?
let me take a wild stab in the dark
YOU GOT BANNED from the said website
Harry -mac got slashed and burned for being a Troll and not the first time is it
so you thought you would be big and brave by having a dig at the member that got you Banned
here on AR
and i get accused for perceived personal slights , which you now choose to ignore me because of your lack of knowledge on the subject
Hey ho
more like game over

There you go again Rich jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Harry mac is not a Troll but a good stalking friend of mine.

I dont agree with most of what Tom Says but he is right that most of the people trying to setup Deer Dog registers, training courses that Have to be done ot get on a register etc etc, are only doing it for fame, fortune or both.

All this talk of trolls is not good either RIch you are begining to sound like one of the paranoid sycophant SD inner circle.

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:
there is no point disscussing the matter any further, as you can't see what is already there

What is there to see? Simply repeatedly saying some thing is there does not make it so. Wishing for and actually being are two entirely different things.

quote:

but what was the real reason why you revived this thread?
let me take a wild stab in the dark
YOU GOT BANNED from the said website
Harry -mac got slashed and burned for being a Troll and not the first time is it
so you thought you would be big and brave by having a dig at the member that got you Banned
here on AR

I didn't know I had revived this thread. It was on the firstpage of the topic list and I simply added my views, It not as if I dug it out of the grave.
I got banned from what web site? If I have its news to me. Who's Harry Mac? One of your imaginary friends from Santa's grotto?

quote:

and i get accused for perceived personal slights , which you now choose to ignore me because of your lack of knowledge on the subject
Hey ho
more like game over

I don't think you can be accused of perceived personal slights. That would be a preposition. I don't choose to ignore you, I chose to ignore your question. Again they are two entirely different things. Rest assured the is no lack of knowledge on the subject where I am concerned. I have no need to comment on the lack of knowledge on the subject matter in regards to others, they make that evident with out any help from me.

It certainly does seem like game over. Shame that you've had to loose. But thats life! We all can't be winners.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
There you go again Rich jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Harry mac is not a Troll but a good stalking friend of mine.

I dont agree with most of what Tom Says but he is right that most of the people trying to setup Deer Dog registers, training courses that Have to be done ot get on a register etc etc, are only doing it for fame, fortune or both.

All this talk of trolls is not good either RIch you are begining to sound like one of the paranoid sycophant SD inner circle.

Dick has a history of jumping to the wrong conclusions.

The majority opinion does seem too be to view those intent on setting up these dog registers with a healthy level of suspicion, for the reasons you have mentioned. Fortune being the greater goal, with fame and opportunity being only slightly behind.

Aren't most inner circles/cliques sycophantic and don't they all suffer from bouts of paranoia? Its the nature of the beast, and of those who seek to be part of the circle/clique. Any of us with a strong streak of individuality have no desire for membership for those very reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Mix:

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
There you go again Rich jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Harry mac is not a Troll but a good stalking friend of mine.

I dont agree with most of what Tom Says but he is right that most of the people trying to setup Deer Dog registers, training courses that Have to be done ot get on a register etc etc, are only doing it for fame, fortune or both.

All this talk of trolls is not good either RIch you are begining to sound like one of the paranoid sycophant SD inner circle.

Dick has a history of jumping to the wrong conclusions.

A history of 3 weeks?

Don

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
There you go again Rich jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Harry mac is not a Troll but a good stalking friend of mine.

I dont agree with most of what Tom Says but he is right that most of the people trying to setup Deer Dog registers, training courses that Have to be done ot get on a register etc etc, are only doing it for fame, fortune or both.

All this talk of trolls is not good either RIch you are begining to sound like one of the paranoid sycophant SD inner circle.

David
please except my apologies and to H-mac aswell
As for trolls
yes i get fed up of constantly hav to defend any thing i do or post that is genuinely done to try and help others as i often go out of my way to do it
as for dog days and uniformity
that is why i started my dog days
as i had trouble finding any one to help me at a cost that i could afford
uniformity, with a set base guide can surely only be a natural progression of it's continuation so it does not become a free for all and fail
those that just want fame and fortune from it can carry on and spend their on time and money on it
DRG
also except my apologies

richard

i dont think don were talking to you, more so to our new troll of the week, which he quoted.

i do hope that you guy's get this off the ground as we here in denmark considered it a tremendous advantage with our schweisshound reg.
it is not free, but the cost is so low that nobody cares about it.
danish schweiss hound reg. in english

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Mix:

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
There you go again Rich jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Harry mac is not a Troll but a good stalking friend of mine.

I dont agree with most of what Tom Says but he is right that most of the people trying to setup Deer Dog registers, training courses that Have to be done ot get on a register etc etc, are only doing it for fame, fortune or both.

All this talk of trolls is not good either RIch you are begining to sound like one of the paranoid sycophant SD inner circle.

Dick has a history of jumping to the wrong conclusions.

A history of 3 weeks?

Don

Don

Unlike the US the UK is a might small place, and the hunting forum scene is rather limited. The usual suspects normally turn up on a number of fora. As is the case here with Richard E. So whilst new here the familiarity comes from that wider group of UK based fora.

Picking lot of fights? No not really. I'm simply trying as to keep it real. That way folks are as fully informed of the agenda's, as fully aware of who's who, and as fully aware of what's what as possible. That way they can make an informed judgement on the subject,and the poster.

I hope such well intentioned objectives meet with your approval?

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
There you go again Rich jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Harry mac is not a Troll but a good stalking friend of mine.

I dont agree with most of what Tom Says but he is right that most of the people trying to setup Deer Dog registers, training courses that Have to be done ot get on a register etc etc, are only doing it for fame, fortune or both.

All this talk of trolls is not good either RIch you are begining to sound like one of the paranoid sycophant SD inner circle.

David
please except my apologies and to H-mac aswell
As for trolls
yes i get fed up of constantly hav to defend any thing i do or post that is genuinely done to try and help others as i often go out of my way to do it
as for dog days and uniformity
that is why i started my dog days
as i had trouble finding any one to help me at a cost that i could afford
uniformity, with a set base guide can surely only be a natural progression of it's continuation so it does not become a free for all and fail
those that just want fame and fortune from it can carry on and spend their on time and money on it
DRG
also except my apologies

Dick

I have never criticised your efforts in trying to provide training. In fact if the day you ran hadn't clashed with other arrangement I would have liked to have attended, but business commitments decreed other wise. All I have done is disagreed with your views and unsubstantiated claims. Which you seem to have taken very personally.

Uniformity requires regulation, regulation requires pre determinable standards, pre determinable standards require qualification, qualification requires regulation. Its a vicious circle. Its like the over stuffed cupboard, what once seemed like a simple solution to clearing up, becomes a major logistical nightmare the moment you open the door wide and the true extent of the problem comes crashing down all around you.

Hence my earlier observation. "The necessary " nationwide infra-structure" is not there and is not working. Those best placed to provide the necessary nationwide infra-structure have realised that"