Gentlemen

I was at a dinner this weekend and there was other riflenuts. We started and discussion about the most common hunting cartridges in Europe.

Is there anyone who know's the most popular camberings are, which is the most popular round in your country?.

Don't be shy
/ JOHAN

Those calibers killed most reindeer last autumn
Hunters with

243.win shot 149
6.5x55 shot 71
308win shot 65
7mmRem Mag shot 46
30 06 shot 43
270 Win shot 19
7-08 Rem shot 14
other cal 93

In England I imagine the most popular chamberings are:

243 Win (by a long way)
22 250
222 Rem
308 Win
25 06
220 Swift
6.5x55
7x57
30 06.

For Germany I would say:

30-06
8x57 rimed and rimless
7x65R
300 WM
7x57R (the rimless version is not very popular)
308
9,3x62
9,3x74R
7x64
222 Rem
22 Hornet
6,5x57R
and may be some 5,6x52R or the 5,6x50R which lose more and more due to rising number of areas with boar on which they are not legal.

Shotguns mainly 12 ga and a rising number of 20ga with 76mm chamber

Best regards

I find it interesting that 270 Winchester was not listed for England and Germany.

How are Weatherby rifles viewed in England and Europe.

Mike

My mistake Mike... the 270 should be in my list too. I used to own one!

I do not know anyone who shoots a Weatherby. The Ammo would be hard to come by, and I think that as a cultural thing there are fewer shoorter in the UK who worship at the Altar of High Velocity.

Johan, you forgot to say somthing about Sweden!

6.5x55 is still the most popular one, as it is an old Swedish military caliber.
Second and third is 30-06 and 308 Win (I do not know in which order).
9.3x62 also popular, and is getting more and more so in the areas where the boars are in increasing numbers. Many moose hunters use 9.3x57 and 8x57 JS, and also 7mm Rem Magnum and 300 Win.

A lot of people are using 222Rem for Roe deer and birds and 243Win are as I understand more and more popular for roe. 223 Rem has not been a hit amongst hunters here, despite that it is our military caliber since 15 years back. This is probably because we have our firm tradition of 222 Rem, and those looking for a new stalkning gun today want a gun legal for boar and in that case, 6.5x55 is legal minimum. This said, there is a lot of debate about how good idea it is to go for a boar with a 6.5, and most hunters here would like to have something heavier.

Johan, have I missed something?

For Denmark I would say:
308 Win
6,5 x 55
243
30-06

Greetings......S�ren

In Uruguay:
22 LR
243
25-06
308
30-06

12/70 with slugs

For any central fire rifle caliber, bigger than 6,5 mm you need a special license.

LG

Lorenzo

What do you have to do to havea licence for a calibre bigger than 6.5mm

Is just a calibre restriction or does case size come into the licence. In other words would the standard licence be OK for 6.5/378 Wby but a special needed for a 223 necked up to 270.

Mike

Mike,
Exactly, you can have a 6,5/378 with tha standard license but if you want a 223 necked uo to 270 you must have a "gun collector license".
The standard license you work it through the police, the other one you need the aouthorization of the Defense Department (militars).
Once you must obtain the authorization, you must valid it every single year during the month of march, ooops!! just remember I must visit them

Today they are not giving new "collectors licenses" and I think is not allowed to import central fire rifles anymore, BUT...they allowed importation of handguns of any caliber and you can buy and own 9mm pistols with the standard license!!!
Who understand uruguayan militars????
You can buy several 9mm pistols but not a 375 H&H rifle!! Criminals not use big bores to their activities, they prefer 9mm.
I don't understand guns regulations.

For a standard license you need to be older than 18th, work and a pshico-phisic test that is a joke.

LG

hi Lorenzo
We got the same nonsense rule here in Iceland, for anything bigger than 30. Cal we need a special permit and we are fighting it in courtrooms.
Some asshole that don�t know anything concerning guns and hunting made those rules some years ago.
We are not allowed to use shotguns to hunt reindeer, although that is usually the first gun everybody gets.
My favorite gun is a Sako 75 deluxe in 300 win.mag and I use it a lot

Lots of popular calibers here in Switzerland, the 7x64 is probably the "30-06" of Central Europe. Awful lot of those.
Other popular choices: .22LR, .22 Hornet, .222, .223, 243, 6.5x57(R), 7x65R, 308, 30-06, 8x57(R)S, 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag, 8x68S, 9.3x62
plus probably a ton I have forgotten.
- mike

[ 03-31-2003, 20:52: Message edited by: mho ]

S�lvi, didnt the current weapons law in Iceland come just after the second world war ? I agree, it�s a stupid law probably made by people that didn�t have a clue about weapons and hunting. I just bought a Tikka SS in 7mmRM which is going to be used on reindeer this autumn.

S�ll Georg.
�g var a� sko�a pr�filinn minn og s� a� p�sturinn sem �g sendi 24. feb. er �opna�ur
kve�ja
S�lvi

Marterius

I guess you are almost right

I know that the 7X64, 280 and 270 are gaining in south of Sweden.

Two of the guests at the dinner was gun dealers, according to them the 308 and 6,5X55 were not soo popular anymore. Most of their sale was 3006, medium bore magnums and classics like the 9,3's. The bigger calibers have become more popular because of the pigs. Most people seems to but one 270/7mm/30 cal rifle and them a bigger like 338,358, 9,3 or 375.
/ JOHAN

[ 04-01-2003, 12:33: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

And in the combination guns (over-under and drillings) in Sweden the most popular chambers are 222Rem, 5.6x52R(22SavageHighpower), 6.5x55 and 7x57R. But the 222Rem and 5.6x52R are not any popular choices anymore! The 12 is the most popular gauge.

I'm surprised that the 7x57 (rimless version) is not on the list. I thought it was widely used in military Mausers. Or was it primarily a South American cartridge?

Mr. Eby, you still can get the 7x57 in CZ-550. It is the original military cartridge Mauser made. Likely as others have said, the 7x64 has been around for so long, about 1915 I believe (Carcano might know better), so therefore popularity may be diminishing. The 7x64 delivers more punch than the 7x57, being on a par with the 280 Rem. But the 7x57 should be quite close to the 7mm-08 ballistically and therefore is an interesting round to me. I myself am definitely going to acquire a weapon in the 7x57 some day.

Regards

Jamt, welcome to the forum!
Yep, I forgot the 7x57R, indeed popular in combination guns (guns which are also very popular). Interesting however that I can't remember coming across a gun in rimless 7x57.

Johan is also correct in that even if 6.5x55 is the caliber most moose hunters still use, heavier calibers are more popular when people are buying new guns.

In Germany the 7x57 rimless has never had a real popularity (unlike the 7x57R).
The 7x57 was built for the South American Mausers. The European one had mostly the 8x57. And that may be the reason. After both WW in Germany have been a lot of Mausers around with 8x57 and the market was filled with them.
And what can a 7x57 do what a 8x57 can't do? So you never got a big choice in amunition which makes it not better.
So the 7x57 rimless is known but rare here.

Best regards

The most popular rifle calibers in Finland are probably these:

.22 LR (most definitely)
.308 Win (absolutely the second)
.30-06
.222 Rem. for birds and other smaller game

9,3x62 is gaining increasing popularity among moose hunters. .45-70 is talked a lot about, but they are not as common as one would think after reading the gun magazines.

Our old curiosities 8,2x53R and 9,3x53R are also alive, though not very well anymore. 7,62x53R is, however, still in active use in moose, whitetail and bird hunting.

LD100 why is the 308Win so popular in Finland? Has it been a military round or is it used for competition (cheap practise ammo)?

And the 7.62x53R what kind of weapons is it chambered in? Sako, Tikka or rebuild military rifles?

Markus:

Well, the whole story begins at the time of our independence war in the 1917-18. After the war there were thousands of Mosin-Nagant M91s around in 7,62x53R. They were then adopted for hunting purposes and after the WW2 there was again a LOT of different versions of 7,62x53R Mosin Nagants around, which were quickly modified for hunting purposes. For moose hunting, the law in those days said that the rifle had to have a bullet diameter of 8 mm minimum, and this led to the development of our 8,2x53R and 9,3x53R, which are 7,62x53R with an expanded neck.

The Mosin-Nagants are rugged guns, which are being used even today, but they are far from perfect hunting rifles. Therefore, when Sako and Tikka began to produce their L- and M-series rifles, and the law allowed smaller than 8 mm calibers also, those guns were bought in great numbers.

The .308 Win had become very famous at the time and as it was quite cheap, accurate, had enough power for moose hunting and being also satisfactory for bird hunting, it soon became immensely popular here. In the 1970's it had become a standard, to which all other (moose) rifle cartridges were compared to. The .222 Rem became a same kind of standard in bird rifles, but since birds were getting fewer and fewer and their hunting lesser, it hasn't been able to stay so popular to this day.

The .308 Win hasn't been our military cartridge ever, whereas the 7,62x53R has been used in sniper rifles quite recently. I believe we still have Dragunovs and some Finnish-Made sniping rifles shooting that cartridge, in active military use. At least I used one when I was in the army some ten years ago.

.308 is nowadays used in all kind of rifles, for hunting as well as sport shooting. 7,62x53R rifles have been almost exclusively either different variations of the Mosin Nagant M91, or Winchester 1895's dating back from 1917. Today, there are quite new Baikal and Valmet/Tikka combos with the rifle barrel in 7,62x53R and they are also gaining popularity in some extent.

The funniest 7,62x53R that I've shot was a pistol with a Mosin-Nagant M91 action and a home-made Remington XP100-style stock. Kicked pretty bad!

[ 04-02-2003, 00:42: Message edited by: LD100 ]

In Spain, the list could be something like
30.06
7 Rem Mag
300 Win Mag
270WCF
243WCF
I have suddenly realized I must be some sort of alien since I do not shoot any of those
montero

montero

I thought you had a 300 win mag? Am I correct?

It sems like you are fond of German calibers. What are your current calibers, Don't be shy

How popular is the 7X64 in Spain?

/ JOHAN

Before 1980in this year our military made revolution and collected all rifled guns)
- 8x57JS (in old military models)
- 8x56Rmm (in M95 mannlichers)

After 1980:
- .308 Winchester (Becouse it is our military cartridge in H&K G3)
- .30-06
- 8x57JS
- And some 7mm. Rem. 8x68S Magnums

hola, Johan.

I've had not one, but several 300 win mag's in my life.

my gunrack has been reduced to a custom rifle, based on a mauser argentino action, and chambered in a wildcat which is a 9,3x64 brenneke necked down to 8mmS that you can see in http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/8-9,3x64S-Brenneke-Mazon.htm, and a k95 model exklusiv blaser single shot in 6,5x57R.

with age I am becoming more responsible, caring more for tradition and moving out of stainless and kevlar

regards,

montero

Carcano91: I haven't shot any game with the 9,3x53R myself, but my friends have shot numerous moose with it and have found it to be quite efficient cartridge for that purpose. With light bullets(15g Norma Oryx and alike) it achieves almost the ballistics of the 9,3x62, but the heavyweight bullets(16-19,4g) may be a bit too heavy for it.

Are you sure that the 9x53R is the same cartridge? I've also heard of that one but I've thought that it is a cartridge with a 9 mm bullet diameter. Although the 9,3 mm diameter would make very much sense.

Sako is probably the only factory loading the 9,3x53R cartridge (I don't know about Russia) and their bullet in that load is the Sako Gamehead, which is regrettably a very poor bullet. If you buy one, I suggest you reload and choose a better bullet, like the Norma Oryx. Lapua Mega is also pretty good at the speeds that the 9,3x53R produces.

About the gun...If it is a Mosin-Nagant action, take a good look at its condition. Old and very much used ones may actually fire when you remove the safety!! That is due to weariness in some parts that I don't know english name for. In my opinion, the best use for the 9,3x53R cartridge would be in combos (kipplaufsbuchse ), but they are very rare even here in Finland.

On the other hand, if it is a Mosin-Nagant, it probably won't cost much so I advise you take it, since every gun is worth owning for

BTW, you can make 9,3x53R brass from 7,62x53R brass quite easily and if you need loading data, I can help you with some recipes for Vihtavuori powders.

[ 04-03-2003, 13:29: Message edited by: LD100 ]

Hola montero

Sorry, but the link is not working. Does Dieter Horneber make brass for this caliber. It would be most tempting to make a 7X64 Mazon too.

I agree with you and uderstand you fully. I have actually became a bigger mauser fan when I passed 27 birthday

No I have a stack of mauser and more to come. I have two ZG-47 that soon will be mine. I will most likely only have one or two high tech guns. Did you sell the 6,5X65R ??

Who is this fellow designing all these rounds?

/ JOHAN

Johan:
try
http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/
then go to jagdpatronen and the to 8-9,3x64
I designed the cartridge and Diete Horneber made me a run of case with my headstamp.
I sold the 6,5x65R to a good friend of mine as I ordered my 6,5x57R.
hope the link works.
montero

In Poland No 1 is 30-06 and next 7x64, 7x57, 8x57 JS and for the rimmed cal. 7x 57R, 8x57 JRS 7,62x 53R. Now 243 Win 222 Rem and 7 Rem M are catching up.

Proof that Poland is really part of Western Europe ;-). (And has, of course, been so for a long time)
The German choice and sequence of cartridges is almost exactly the same. .30-06 rules by far.

Best regards,
Carcano

I have read somewhere that 30-06 and 308win covers about 80% of the big game rifle market in Norway.And that is probably true.Perhaps there are slightly more 30-06's than 308win's, i'am not sure.
As nr 3 i will put 6.5x55 Mauser, which is far more popular in Sweden than here.

And the most popular bullet? Probably Hornady 180grs SP Interlock.Loaded by Norma this bullet/cartridge is called Norma Elite.