Hey Members,
i got an chamois hunt invitation from a good friend.
If the plan works, i will go on the beginning of September to austria for a weekend and try my luck on a chamois-buck, but hunting in the mountains is what i never have done before and a total new challenge for me.
Usually i do my hunting by treestands in a very moderate territory.. we don�t even do have hills so i think a great challenge will be the physical factor of the hunt. The altitude (guess 2000-3000meters), walking in the mountains and the low oxygen level, which won�t make it easier for me.
Because this invitation comes very surprisingly for me, i haven�t had the chance to bring me in shape, but will use the following weeks to get a better fitness. Think a little bit cardio training and power walking is what i will do.

Okay Okay, I know that a key fact for a good hunt is to be in real good shape....but due to the limitated time , i won�t have big chances to raise my fitness level enormous....

But that�s not the main part of my question!
I like to hear from you if u can give me any tips about:
-what to take with me on the hunt
-what is necessary to have always in the back pack
- what stuff is abolutely necessary and which things are better to be left at home
-maybe how a packing list should look like

To make it short, looking for any input which will help me on a chamois hunt to avoid mistakes.
So or so, i or better we will have a stalker who leads us in the mountain, tell us which chamois to shoot,...helps us ...
But I realy like to know how a good chamois could look, how i can judge them by age and if there exist a simple rule to see how good the trophy is...before shooting one.

I think i will take a 6,5*57R with factory ammo ( Hirtenberger, Nosler Partition , 8 or 9,.. gramms) to the hunt. But because on roes i not often had a immediately kill with the Nosler PT i think if it�s maybe better to shoot the chamois through both shoulders to avoid to get a chase after the shot. I don�t think that chamois are very hard regarding taking a shot, but if it�s possible i like to have an instant kill!

If i shoot on moderate distances (up to 200meters) and don�t have a big angle up- or downhill, do i have to correct the point where i�m aiming to?
Or just "normal shot placement"?
I think for an novice in hunting in the mountains -like me- you often don�t think on special things....but if u would have known it before, the hunt probably would have run a lot better...

By the way, what would you think, do the chamois will have still there summerhair or could it be that they allready have changed the hair and are in the beautifull wintercape?

Guess a good chamoisetrophy will look even nicer if u will make a shoulder mount, or?

Thx�s a lot for your kind replies and given me some info so the hunt will be an success.

cheers Konstantin

Dear Konst#1, I have a limited experience of hunting Chamois, but I doubt that you will find them at 3000 m. I have no experience with Austrian Alps but here, we find them at 1200/2200 m. so the lack of oxigen, is usually not a big problem. Since you have to shoot a buck, you will need a good spotting scope. I guess that a guide will escort you, then he will suggest you which critter you will shoot. In my humble opinion, it is a good idea to go to the range, make some training and check your rifle/scope. Shooting downhill or uphill within 45� and 200 m. will not change a lot your point of impact. Remember that you will not shoot a squirrel . A chamois buck is quite big, so don't worry too much about the point of impact; shoot it at the shoulder/chest, and you will be a happy man! If you want to know some more about shooting trajectories go to http://stevespages.com/page8b.htm and download "Loadbase 1.0". It's a VERY good ballistic software. I don't think that your buck will have a beautiful winter cape at the beginning of september. Good luck and let us know the results of your austrian hunt - Regards/Lorenzo

I believe the general rule is to aim low if the animal is at a steep angle. But the change is usually just a couple inches in all circumstances.

Thx�s for your replies!

But maybe it�s possible that i get a little bit more answers onto my questions, can�t belive that only 2 of us are able to say something about hunting chamoise.
Guess it isn�t a big difference if the hunt takes place in the US (on other mountaingame), the swiss or austria.
And i think some of you already have hunted in the mountain and so are able to give me some advices.
Or?
Would be thankfull for any comments.
Thx�s a lot

Cheers

Konstantin

Konstantino,
at the beginning of September is not easy to evaluate accurately the local weather and your clothes choice. Be consequential.

a) If you will go to sleep in a mountain hut or in a shelter you will need something for the night, maybe the sleeping bag.

If you remain there some day maybe you'll need some change.

b) Or will you start from downhill during the night having to climb for hours? It has been happe in Austria to a friend of mine....

In both situation use the "Onion dressing method" or multistatus method beeing light dressed during the climb, but having dresses to put on when you rest or if it is cold.
Better if you have some dry underwear to use if you are wet for perspiration.

It changes a lot if it possible to climb using a car offroad that brings near the hunting area, of course.

c) Which equipment do you already have? Climbing boots? Already broked in? Ruck Sack? (has it a waterproof area? otherwise maybe a pair of garbage bags (big model)help you to avoid to make a bloody bath when you'll go down after the hunt if you put your prey in the sack or on the sack. It is not too much traditional, but it works)? Rain coat? Victorinox (Hunter or Fireman model)? Canteen(even if is easy to find water on Alps, it is always better to have one if it is a thermos you can bring with you hot tea and it is pleasant if the air is cold)? A first Aid kit?

d) Be light, don't bring with you a lot of things, the weight will cut your stamina and will make you be out of breath during the climb, and will work on your feet and knees during the downhill.

e) If it is possible speak with your hunting host, ask him some suggestion and some info about their hunting habits, because many prefers to manage a some hunting day having a camp/shelter/hut rather than a from deep dark to deep dark hunting day, moreover if there is a very long march to do.
If you can, spend some day during this month to trek in the hunting area, you will have first hand sensations, your own hands sensations.

The caliber is ok.
Verify your rifle also at a 300 meters at the range. Long shots are not so rare, but altitude helps, (a more flat traectory). Max ten cartridges (Weight problem). Be trained.
Normally it is a meditated shot on a motioness animal.

Binoculars mandatory, spotting scope also, but is it necessary to have one for each hunter(Weight problem)? Probably your hunting host is better fitted than you and for him to bring your spotting scope it is not a problem.
A spotting scope with a angled ocular is better than a straight one, more comfortable and natural to use in mountain.

Hope that these notes can help you.

I've never hunted "Gems" when I lived in Europe, something I regret very much, but I'm in Alberta now, so I'll have to make do with bighorn sheep.

My daypack usually contains the following:

Rain gear: as light as you can get, preferably not too noisy either, I bought a camo rain suit from Cabelas, but in Austria I'd hesitate to use that, get something more in line with local traditions...not too dark, the rock is grey, not dark green.

A little axe, but since you are going with a buddy, you could leave this out and substitute for a knife. No need for a big one, just anything that will gut a buck (I've used my 7 cm folder on many ocassions.

Plenty of water...if it gets hot, three liters of water can be consumed without noticing.

Good glass...I use a Swarovski 10x42...if I had to buy again I'd probably buy the 8x30 something from the same make, much lighter.

Scope...hopefully your buddy has one, I've only recently ordered one, mainly because the line between a legal and not legal ram is such a fine one. You should rely on your host to point out the animal you shoot.

Food...I found the cereal bars very unsatifying...go for snickers, mars things like that with lots of calories. Take some salami too and pita bread.

Maps and navigation stuff...if you are being guided, maybe a small compass, but your host should take care of that, or know his way around.

Signalling devices...I carry a highway flare, and a whistle, but again I hunt alone and nobody can run to my rescue.

Medics...some anti-blister stuff, pain-killers, band aids, and such

Firestarter...I always carry some, and plenty of matches and lighters...again, for those unexpected overnighters...I don't suspect this to happen in the average hosted Austrian hunting situation.

Boots...good sturdy boots...I love the light boots during the first few miles, but I always use my big vibram soled Meindls for any mountain trip. At the end of the day, especially when carrying a chamois, you'll love the support.

Backpack...you may need to consider having to carry a chammy off the mountain, or carry your buddy's stuff while he carries the chamois...think about that when you choose. I used top have one of those traditional rucksacks that could hold an entire chamois if folded up correctly. Very uncomfortable compared to modern designs, but only when loaded to the brim.

Clothing...I always use hiking pants from some high-tech fibre, that dries very very easily. Some polyprop or similar T-shirt, cotton shirt, fleece vest. Consider taking a dry t-shirt, because often you will find yourself climbing, sweating, and then waiting for three hours in the cold mountain wind.

I always wear a sturdy baseball cap, and carry a bandana to stuff underneath, and let it hang down to cover my neck and ears. Sunburn is rapid in the mountains, I use some sunblock in the morning before I leave.

I usually have a pair of leather gloves in my pack too, in case you have top descend through steep thick brush/pine forest, and you *will* want to grab ontothings from time to time, especially when tired.

There is no training that'll prepare you for climbing mountains as actually climbing mountains. Try to switch the power walking with a climbing tred machine at a gym. Wear your boots as often as you can, find uneven terrain to train the ankles and knees, wear a heavier pack to increase the training effect, but take care not to overstress anything and ruin your hunt...

Talk these things through with your host, he'll know best.

Good luck,

let us know how it went!

Frans

Oh, shooting...

If you shoot at an angle, gravity works as if you had shot across the horizontal distance. For a 45o shot, this means that the horizontal distance is about 0.7 of the actual shooting distance...within 200 meters nothing to worry about.

However, if you are shooting downhill at a 45o angle, you will have to consider the trajectory the bullet travels through the chest. If you hit very low in the chest, which might be fine on a horizontal shot, you might just crease the flesh instead of getting good penetration. Similar with steep uphill shots. But I'm talking about STEEP shots here, not the average below 30o angled shots, where you should be fine just aiming for the centre of the kill zone.

Frans

Hey Steve,
thx�s a lot for your great Tips!
I already have spoken with my friend who has the contact to the local huters!
I thing the hunt will be like this:
We will drive the first day to the hunting cabin which is placed in the hunting area on the hill, and if light and time is enough and good we will stalk the first evening and see where the chamoise are. Although the guide already knows where they are, because they went last weekend in the Mountain and spotted some good bucks. But they told, that we have to climb high and shooting distances would be 200m as minimum but he bets we had to make long distance shots about 250 up to 350meters! That�s why i changed my plans with my 6,5 and will take a friends .270WSM due to the better trajectory of the WSM.
As u said, we will start our hunt in the morniung time and then stalk the hole day in the mounatin, every hunter with one guide. And the guide will have a spective, so i�m thinking about to leave my 8*56 Zeiss Bino�s at home, due to the weight.
I do have some high mountain trekking boots, but guess will take my "normal mountain shoes" (reacges to the ankles) because they are worn and fit perfectly with some thicker socks.
Gues as underdress i will get me some multi functional sport"dress" and put my pants and shirt over. Maybe some fleece and a thin loden jacket to put over when we sit and spotting the mountain for the chamoise.
And a second set of dry clothes....for change. Usualy i realy sweat a lot,..so maybe to shirts to change would be better (and a second pair of socks).
I will try to reduce the content of my backpack to a minimum, so i will have "freedom of moove" during the walks. MAybe some rainwear and something as "rifle rest", a blanket or a " kotze"...if i find one.

Hope the guide won�t feel to funny when he walks to thin and high passes in the mountain gues the fittnes of the locals are mucho mucho mucho better than my one, although i try to do some power walking and some bicycle trips and walking stairs whereever i find some

And the rest will be something like b-day,..just see how it works..how the mountainside looks and try to give my best without having to much stress or powerinput...through the "climbings" .. and walkings.
So to say i will let myself be "present/ surprised" (�berrascht)...
And maybe i get a chance for a shot on a buck and have the luck and get him

So or so i will take my digicam with me and hope that i�m able to show you some nice pic�s. Hope a chamoise will be to see there too, but u never know what mother nature will "hold in her hands for you".

cheers and a lot of greetings to italy,

Konst#1

Frans,
thank u too for al the time you have taken to write down these kind and helpfull words!

A good season to you and your customers,
and maybe we hear a nice storie from you too, when you get back with a nice sheep from one of your trips.

Love them, real beautifull animals!

Konstantin

Konst,
A 8x56 is big and heavy to bring, but try, in any way, to bring with you a bino, or you will loose the pricipal activity of this type of hunt, the optical search.
Your backpack can be a good "rest" moreover if you have something soft inside (rainwear, sweater) where the rifle rest.
In which part of Austria will you go for this hunt?

Hey Steve,
the hunt will take place in Tirol in Zillertal.

bye

konstantin

I'll go to see where it is

Don�t take an axe, you will hunt above the tree border. Shots will be 150 to 300m. Angle hardly will count, as long as, as detailed above, you make mentally a line through the game. So don�t worry about the bullet being anywhere else than shooting horizontally, but take care how the corpus of the game is crossed, so adjust your point of aim. E.g. 45 degrees down means you have to aim not at the middle of the corpus as you see it from the side, but rather to the middle as you see it from above, so the entrance hole will be near the spine on top, but if you do allright, the exit wound will be low on the body and the bullet will hit all vitals in between.

Remember the old word: "SHOOT ON HAIR NOT ON AIR"!!

At 300 m a Gams is a small animal. My personal check - depending on caliber, exhaustion, rest - is, if the reticle is steady enough on the game. if I have a good feeling I shoot!

At 300 m with a modern caliber, sighted in 4 to 5 cm high at 100 m, the bullet will be down 30 cm at 300. Rest the horizontal part of the reticle at that distance at the top line of the game, and let the bullet drop home.

There will be wind! I fear wind more than bullet drop, for I know bullet drop, if I know the range ( = your guide will tell you the range. First they are good at that, second laser rangers are not uncommon ).

As you shoot along a slope, Wind is not so much a problem. Shots over a valley will guarantee more wind!

If there is a slight wind, say from left, and the grass in between you and the game is in the same direction, aim slightly to the left. Remember the saying above! Don�t aim out of the kill zone, just to the left border of the kill zone. As the wind WILL catch the bullet, you might be dead on, as long as there is wind. If you underestimated the wind, the game will get the bullet to the right of the kill zone. If wind gets drastically weaker, the shot will be in the left area of the kill zone! If wind is extremely strong don�t shoot, wait a little bit.

ALWAYS STAY AT THE KILL ZONE!

Buy a Wetterfleck ( loden blanket ) mighty useful, sitting on it, over your Rucksack as a rest, you might even put it around you if raining.

Believe your guide, "diesche Bergler kennen sich aus"! Ask!

Drink alcohol only afterwards, and be careful about the Schnaps! You are exhausted, at altitude, you at max will take half of what you think!

Last tip: get a stepper!! Or a high building and start going up and down several times a day. Walking is not the same as stepping up!

Take a camera! If you are happy with your guide, don�t tip too low!

Have fun!

Hermann

P.S.: the Gams will be in summer dress. Younger pieces will change color beginning in October. If the guide says: an old doe ( Geiss ): it may have longer horns and better bent ( but thinner ) than a younger buck.

If you think its your only chance for a Gams, have it preparated with "Vorschlag". Let the work be done by somebody your guide recommends!

Something that comes to mind is a question regarding the right pants to take on the tour.
The choice probably would be between:

a) the classic Lodenhosen
b) Us Army BDU Pants
or
c) kind of outdoor or trekking pants, out of "newer fabrics" like microtex....in combination with a membrane liek Goretex.

Is there an advantage of c) over a) and b)?
Okay, Loden will hold the transpiration humidity , through this it won�t slip "easily" over the leg and so maybe don�t give you the freedom of movement when you have to make big steps in the mountain.Another point could be, that through this you easily will exccoriate( Wolf laufen) at the femorals. And Loden will get heavy when it�s getting wet but will spent warmth even when wet.

Is the noise level of the clothing something to look at, or not that necessary because so or so in you make noise when walking on the stoney mountains.

Does it make sense to wear sport underwear, that will "pass away" the transpiration humidity? ( i realy sweat a lot when beeing active)

What about a pair of short trousers for the way up and in the mountains? Good thing would be that it�s more comfortable to get fresh air but bad side is when you scratch some stones ;(

For outerwear i thought of taking me some normal T shirts and some long sleeve Shirts and two thin fleece jackets and maybe my old Loden Jacket with me and maybe a pullover or something that will hold me warm.And some dry clothes (Underwear and shirts) to change with me in the backpack.
Maybe a windbreaker too, if its starts raining or i have to sit a long time on one place. To reduce the noise level i thought of putting my Loden Jacket over the (nylon) Windbreaker so the noise level would be okay.

Gues i have to check the volume of my backpack ...

by for now,

Konstantin

If the weather is fine, i would use canvas trousers! Jeans type cloth, eventually lined ( gef�ttert ).

If the sun is shining you are getting to sweat a little ...

If Loden: Knickers make going easier, IMO. To hell with it: man schwitzt dann an den Unterschenkeln besser, und "niemand ist jemals an den Wadeln erfroren".

I think Stefano advised the onion method: many pieces of thin clothing, if all used, overlapping at the middle. Gooood advice, better than one heavy piece of cloth, either too hot or too heavy!

Camo is not really liked, as not necessary. Don�t worry about noise at that trip ( take care: metal on rock is to be avoided! If you get a Pirschstock with metal tip ( amateurs! ) consider to use it wood tip down! ), but if you buy anything, buy noiseless for other hunting.

Ask your guide about the Pirschstock! Its the third leg, if you are unstable - everybody is that sometimes on a steep, grass covered slope, wet, too, this is a little help, hold it not down, but to the hill side, lightly, only if unsteady lean to the hill!

Waidmannsheil! Hermann