Right you 'orrible lot seeing as these are The Accurate Reloading forums I thought I would pose a reloading question.
Have any of you any experience (favourable or otherwise) with any of the lesser used European powders? Particularly interested in RWS/Rottweill, Norma and Vectan.
My interest has been piqued by some discussions with a friend over some monstrous metric calibres and am wondering if the above powders will be useful to me in my projects. He certainly laments the loss of some of the Norma powders.
There is also the issue of cost as Viht is now ridiculously expensive over here and certainly the German powders would be cheaper.
All suggestions, loads, experience and abuse/ridicule gratefully received.

Your humble servant

Zaitsev

Now, I don't know where "over here" is for you, but here in Sweden Vithavouri and Norma are almost all that is available, and I think it is more or less the same all over Scandinavia. Here in Sweden, Norma is the standard (well, Norma is a Swedish company and so is Bofors who makes the powder for them ). They have a new Reloading Manual in Englisn and a good web-site at http://www.norma.cc with a lot of information for the handloader. So the only advice I can give you is to start with the web-site, but I guess you been there already?

As to your question about experience... since I almost only use Norma (and some Vihtavouri) and never really have compared, I don't have much to come with...

RWS/Rottweil is available in Germany and some use it. For me it is way too expensive to even experiement with. There are those who consider these very fine powders though.

Norma was one of the best but has become very difficult to obtain and when you do the sticker tells it all.

Vectan - absolutley no experience and have never seen any for sale - in Germany.

I use VV almost exclusively because that is what is on the store shelves here. I've become frustrated with developing good loads and not being able to reproduce them due to lack of availability, so for me at the moment VV is the ticket. You could do alot worse though, as they are excellent powders.

Occaisionally I can obtain Hogdgon's. Their powder range, price and performance is very good as well.

A lot of the "European" powders - some RWS and Norma powders spring to mind - actually come from the same production line: Norma (or Bofors, according to Martin) in Sweden. There are also some of the Alliant "Reloader" powders, which share the same equivalence - i.e. expect to be able to use the same data, but work up from below.

Alliant RL15 ~ Norma N203 ~ RWS N903
Alliant RL19 ~ Norma N204 ~ RWS N904
Alliant RL22 ~ Norma MRP ~ RWS N905

I have used almost all of the above - in one form or the other. I still do from time to time.

I use a lot of VV pwders these days, largely because they work out cheaper per lbs here in Central Europe. I have used and still use VV N130, N133, N135, N160, N560. I'll most likely start using N550 before the year has ended (I can see in it the stars... )

I guess you'll have to be more specific about what calibers and powders you are considering, for us to be able to supply more specific input.

- mike

Also on the VV powders, yes they are expensive but remember you are purchasing a 1Kg bottle, not the average 400-500 gram bottles & cans offered by many other suppliers.

Like Mike has said already this means the actual price of the powder; for us in Western Europe, VV definately has the economy edge, so we are getting more bang for the buck.

Here in Czech, about all the powder you can get is Accurate Arms. Almost the whole line is available to us since they make it here and at a reasonable price too I must add.

Well 'over here' for me (at present) is jolly old Blighty. I have learned a little about some of the questions I posed so:
Norma is not available here as it comes in tin containers and the powers that be will not approve it for use hence no imports.
Probably the same situation (i.e. no ce mark) with RWS. I did not know AA was made in Czech but have had good results with it and it is relatively cheap, certainly less expensive than Hogdon.Will be reloading for 6mm Rem AI initially.
Just want to see what other options I have as a powder can make all the difference and choice is excellent
Thanks for all your inputs so far

I use Vectan here in Spain as its the easiest to get, from France, Andorra or Portugal, although i also buy it from UK.

I find it very lean burning, and its the cheapest i can find too :-)

I reload:

9mm pb with Ba9, Ba10 or A1
45ACP with A1
303 brit, 308 win with Tubal 3000
30-06 with tubal 5000 or 7000
338 WM with tubal 7000
338 lapua magnum with tubal 8000

you can find tables here for rifle:

http://www.peterlawman.co.uk/downloads/vectan_rifle_loads.pdf

and here for pistol:

http://www.peterlawman.co.uk/downloads/vectan_pistol_loads.pdf

hope this helps.

regards from sunny Spain :-)

I have almost exclusively used RWS powders over the last years.
No problems.
The RWS reloading manual is very good.

Fuhrmann

Hi
The norma's newest powder URP. you can reach light magnum velocity in a 3006 within standard pressure. WWW:NORMA.CC
regards
yes

Echoing a few previous posts, I use VV N160 alot in my 25-06 and 6.5 cals, it is cheaper pro-rata than Hodgens and gives very good consistancy /accuracy. However, I also use RL 22, H4831SC, H4350, VV140 ect, ect,.......

Not a cheap hobby

Andy, you are right of course its not a cheap hobby. However this thread was primarily to establish why we haven't got a better selection of powders available to us over here (partially established) how good unfamiliar powders like vectan and rws are and whether theres any possibility of using em. Theres always the possibility of that magic combination just around the corner.
Interesting to see what powders are common in other parts of the EU too (and hence most widely used)

Thanks to all contributing this is a most enlightening thread.

Z

I have a lot of experience with Vectan powders. Here is a link to the Vectan reloading tables for rifle cartridges:

http://www.nobelsport.fr/nobelsport/fr/schedules/armes_epaule.pdf

I just tried the link as posted by it doesn't seem to work from these posts. You probably need the latest version of Adobe Accrobat reader in French or something.

Vectan powders are quite good by the way and I suspect that some US powders are just Vectan powders in different packaging. I use Tubal 5000 in my .375 H&H with very good results. I use Tubal 7000 in my .300 WinMag and Tubal 8000 in my .416 Rigby; the last is an extremely slow powder requiring almost 103 grains to get 2400 fps in that particular case. All are single base extruded powders.

What is it you need to know specifically?

Gerry, ive got Kemira and Rottweil listed in one of my dealer lists, Rottweil, Vihtavuori,Alliant Vectan, and Accurate in another list. I've also been meaning to visit a local commercial explosives depot to see what they can provide me with, apparently they are the place to procure powder.
If you let me know what kinds you require i'd be glad to gather you some up.
and i';ts time we met up again for a jar,,
best regards Pete

Pete: Kemira powder = Vihtavuori powder, if I'm not totally mistaken. Kemira is the big company and Vihtavuori powders are one of their products. Kemira also makes fertilizers and other chemicals.

Thanks JTH, you could be right, i just went through the list in my dealers catalogue, ive seen packaging saying Kemira on them and also with Vit. looks to be same package.
Pete

I love vithavouri powders and europe!