I think I have found a nice drilling setup
One stupid quesetion - how does one shoot the smooth bore barrel with the scope in place ?

I have a Merkel 96K in 9.3x74R-double 12 bore and it has a custom quarter rib which incorporates an adjustable ghost ring sight with a handmade front Euro. style gold post. The rib will accept Ruger rings and I usually just use a Leupold 4x on it. This, is a meatmaking machine here in BC, where our several species of wild Grouse and Ptarmigan offer what you would call "rough shooting" and Whitetail, Mule and Blacktail Deer plus Moose and Elk are in season at the same time.

I simply look through the scope, which is pre-sighted for the shot barrel after sighting the rifle tube and let the little baztards have it. I also have a Browning-Miroku Mod 7500 O/U in .308Win-12 bore with the same scope and it is simply deadly, I have killed deer and Grouse with it and it is one of the very last of my 30+ hunting guns I would part with...just look through and make meat!

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
... how does one shoot the smooth bore barrel with the scope in place ?

Are you referring to not being able to see the open sights with the scope mounted?? If yes, Dewey is correct, you shoot the shot barrel(s) by sighting through the scope. Not nearly as fast as open shotgun sights, but great for low light huting (e.g. foxes from a stand on a winter night).

If shot is the main application of the gun (e.g. on driven hunts with the odd pig thrown in for rifle use), some people prefer to remove the scope and rely on the open sights. This is obviously better for shooting the shot barrel(s), but you'll have to be sighted in with the rifle barrel to match the open sights.

If you shoot shot with the scope, it is a good idea to pattern the shot barrels while sighting with scope - in particular if you want to use slugs.

- mike

Yes mho for a moment thought I was mad

As a shotgunner I really need to have complete cheek contact if noti don't feel right

I get the point But it really is a compromise

I really cannot see me shooting a woodcock through a scope

I suppose that is nit really built for that purpose

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
...it really is a compromise

I really cannot see me shooting a woodcock through a scope

I suppose that is nit really built for that purpose

A compromise it is, indeed. There are the sights, and then the weight of a Drilling is totally different to that of a shotgun - much more weight forward with the rifle barrel. Then there is the stock, which is rarely fit to the user (although you have a penchant towards custom stocks) but is used "as is" like a rifle stock...

- mike

With my drillings I have shot several animals with the shotgun barrels, aiming through the scope.
Turkeys, grouse, doves, quail, ducks, rabbits, squirrel, and a deer [with buckshot], none of the birds were flying,they were on the ground, in a tree or swimming in a pond or on a river, they were shot for the pot, and tasted great.

Just curious has anybody used a drilling to bag a bird in flight ?

Vintage drillings were originally designed for use without a scope. Indeed when you select the rifle barrel withe the selector lever, this raises the rear sight. Thus walk around with shot barrels loaded and on seeing a buck select the rifle barrel and shoot. A scope may be fitted in claw mounts and would be carried in a leather tube and used on a longer shot - ample time to attach the scope.

With my combo, I use it as a rifle first and foremost but have shot many rabbits and foxes with shot barrel. Just sight with scope and let fly. If I was shooting flying birds, I would remove scope and make sure rifle is unloaded so you don't send a bullet into the next county.

I have shot a lot of flying birds with my drillings.

Grouse, quail, doves, ducks, and 5 or 6 different kinds of birds in Zimbabwe, Guiena Foul, Frankolin, sand grouse, 3 or4 different kinds of ducks and a few other kinds of birds I cannot remember right now.

I did not use the scope for the flying birds.

But I always had it in my pocket, just in case.

My wifes favorite hunting gun is her Drilling, a Sauer 12x12x30/06.

She shot birds in Zimbabwe with it as well as a very good Kudu[with iron sights],and a Monster Warthog, with the scope.

Hi LH,

What have you found?

Majority of Drillings are choked quite tightly and intended for use against ground-game such as hare/rabbit. I use spreader wads which open the pattern to match a standard barrel. Flying birds not a problem.

Normal set up is to mooch with all three tubes loaded (standard shot gun) - only selecting rifle tube when required. Out to 100 in daylight and the iron sights are plenty accurate enough for any deer.

For woodland work or general walking about, the scope lives in a pocket. High-seat, low light or longer range and into the claw mounts it goes.I get return to within .5" of zero off my scope, which is more than adequate to ensure clean kills to to 200+m. The majority of my rifle opportunities are well under 100m however.

Scope is zeroed to the rifle barrel. The .22 insert barrel is located in the R. shot barrel & adjusted by shims to co-incide with the cross-hairs / iron sights. Front trigger controls both and offers a 'set' facility.

Rear trigger only fires the left shot barrel - which is regulated to the iron sights at 50m with slugs!

We do like this tool.

Rgds

Ian

I've got a Krieghoff drilling that I use quite a lot. It have actually more or less taken over as my hunting shotgun.
When wingshooting I always take the scope of. Like you, I need the full cheek contact to get things right.
I've tried shooting clays with the scope on and it works ok. But I do think I will mess things up out in the woods, when things happen quickly.

I love my drilling, and for wingshooting I shoot as well as with any other shotgun I've owned. And I got a rifle barrel ready and a scope in my pocket

Ok guys

I am convinced that did not understand the waylaid it is supposed to be used.

I am in the Market for one now

I m going to commission a new drilling

I am confident 20 bore for the smooth barrel

Any suggestion on the rifle barrel ?

I am gravitating towards a

222

243

6 x 62 feres

I am not too worry about ejection , second shot or large bears

However has anybody shot slugs from the smooth bore if so then I will go 12 bore and use slugs plus a 8x57 or 7x57r

Perhaps I need a pair ?

Drilling for boar is it the done thing ?

LH,

When you select your rifle calibre - bear in mind the likely usage, rather than possibilities. No point (IMHO) in having a combination that limits when you can use it in the UK.

As a keen and competent wing shot, I would suggest you steer clear of the 12 bore option. In a Drilling, it often takes the weight to a point where it lacks the grace and 'pointability' of a tool built on a smaller frame.

I have had a BBF in .243 & 12 but really wished the rifle was in a larger calibre. Hence, the current Sauer is a 7mm, a calibre that offers many options, both here and abroad.

Think leopard from a blind in the evening, followed by Sand Grouse & Francolin in the morning - all in one easily transported unit!

Woodland deer & then pigeon from a hide, with short barrels that handle so easily.

Just be very sure you want one LH, they have a habit of making other equipment obselete!

I'm sure Gerry will chime in here - but driven pigs are best engaged with something larger; hence the popularity of the 9.3 in the Fatherland.

One consideration, if you really want a small calibre option for fox/small deer etc - with the drilling you always have the option of a sub-calibre insert for the r.hand shot tube!

16 & 20 bore slugs will do the job on pigs, but are at their best at closer ranges. However, as a second (third?) shot from a Drilling, that is likely to be the case. Slugs from mine, hit point of aim at 50m - big holes!

Have fun choosing - you will be happy with the end result, of that I am sure!

Rgds

Ian

Thanks

That's easy now

It's going to be a 12 bore and 9.3x62 and I will order insert tubes from keppler

Look forward to hunting with you once I have it in my hands

All break open guns should be rimmed. Rimless cases in a drilling/combination don't handle so well, require the jaeger tilting block (as they are higher pressure) and are generally a pain (less certain extraction and generaly sprung retainer so don't fall out)

The 9.3x74R achieves 9.3x62 performance at lower pressure and is specifically designed for break opens.

5.6x50R makes a near 22-250 and is an excellent insert.

If your drilling is light you might consider 8x57R as a more forgiving number that still hits hard (but less choice of ammunition)

I totally agree and would urge you to buy a 12-12x9.3x74R drilling, particularly a handbuilt model from a custom maker in Germany or Austria and use both a peep and a detachable scope with it. I have no difficulty in obtaining a consistent .65" group of three shots at 100M with the 286 Nosler Pt. bullet and it chronos 2400 fps-mv on the nose.

This, will kill ANYTHING and RWS ammo shoots as well to the same poi. With a pair of Brenneke slugs and the NP, I get a 2" dispersal at 25M and that WILL deal with a Grizzly or whatever needs an attitude adjustment. I am a pretty solidly built and muscular guy and I do not even notice the recoil and can shoot this all day for fun. So, this is THE drilling to have, IMO, if you are only going to have one.

RWS brass is the best and is pricey, but, with care will last for several firings. I have over 400 cases/factory loads for my Merkel and it is just a real "meatmaker" and a gun I almost always take on my solo hunts in the BC mountains in the region where I was born.

If, I lived in "merrye Englande" among the ghosts of many of my ancestors, I would hie me to Germany, where many more of my ancestral ghosts abide and search the gunshops there until I found a good drilling in 9.3x74R-12 Ga. I bet you could get a fine piece for about L-3000 and it would do more for you than any other gun you own.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:

If your drilling is light you might consider 8x57R as a more forgiving number that still hits hard (but less choice of ammunition)

Having considered this a few times (usually after some prodding by Mr IanF...) I seem to also have come to the conclusion that for the most use at home and abroad the 8x57R would be a great choice. Easily licensable in the UK for deer use, also good for piggies and any of the larger plains game. I think these guns are an excellent addition to a Safari set up to get some camp meat in, hunt some birds etc.

Personally I would prefer to take the shotgun in 20b for handling reasons (maybe 16b) but finding ammo when in Africa might be an issue so you would have to carry some with you. Elsewhere I don't think it would be too much of an issue.

the QD mounted scope would be a must though as I couldn't imagine shooting birds through a scope on the wing.

I believe small-bore used one in the Okavango a couple of years ago for everything from Francolin to Lechwe IIRC.


K

I would also opt for the 20 gauge shotgun. IMHO they handle much, much better.

Regarding the rifle barrell, what about the 6,5x57R, Ben?
I have one and like it a lot. Not the best for the biggest of game though.
Low recoil, accurate, a lot of bullets to choose from and works up to red deer without hazzle.

quote:

Originally posted by Anders:
I would also opt for the 20 gauge shotgun. IMHO they handle much, much better.
Regarding the rifle barrell, what about the 6,5x57R, Ben?
I have one and like it a lot. Not the best for the biggest of game though.
Low recoil, accurate, a lot of bullets to choose from and works up to red deer without hazzle.

Here is a man who knows how to sell LH another rifle!

6.5mm you say?

Re rifle calibre, I would go for something a bit bigger than .22 / 6mm. and definatly go for a rimmed cartridge. The 6.5x57R, 7x57R and 7x65R would all be well worth considering - easy shooting with 140 gn bullet and flat enough and accurate enough for Foxes / Roe out to 150yds and yet you can still shoot bigger bullets for tougher / heavier game. I think the 16 is a really good compromise - not far off a 12 in terms of thump with a slug, but a bit bigger than the 20.

More important than calibre per se, is how they handle - some I have looked at over the years, are pretty heavy and frankly cumbersome. Not so much of an issue if being used as a rifle, but they wouldn't work well as a shotgun for winged game. Others handle like a fine shotgun.

Don't discount a combination gun or Bochsbuchsflinte - ie just a single rifle and shotgun together. OK you don't have a double shotgun, but not sure that is a real disadvantage.

Re carrying all three barrels ready to go, I think this is a bit of a No No in a crowded little island like the UK. Two reasons. If you are shooting / intending to shoot flying game keep the rifle unloaded - if the rifle barrel were to fire (through operator or mechanical failure) you are sending a rifle bulet off into the air and it could come down anywhere within a few miles! Also the recoil of a shotgun is quite brisk and this could drive the bullet oout of the cartridge and into the lands - at the least giving a load of mess, at worse giving a pressure spike.

Saying that when out stalking deer, I do keep both barrels loaded - the shotgun with a heavy 16 bore load of 4 or 5s, for use on close range foxes and also for use as a close finishing shot.

As regards scope - my advice would be to go either a 3-9x36 or a straight tube 1-4 or 1-5 power, and have it mounted as low and as far forward as possible. On my combo the stock is shaped like a fine shotgun, and whilst it doesn't have a lot of recoil it does jump up and back. Mine has a 6x42 in a claw mount mounted quite a long way back and if not careful it can wack me between the eyes. I have lengthened the stock which has made a huge difference. I also use a strap on leather cheek piece to raise the comb.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Anders:
I would also opt for the 20 gauge shotgun. IMHO they handle much, much better.
Regarding the rifle barrell, what about the 6,5x57R, Ben?
I have one and like it a lot. Not the best for the biggest of game though.
Low recoil, accurate, a lot of bullets to choose from and works up to red deer without hazzle.

Here is a man who knows how to sell LH another rifle!

6.5mm you say?

Come on, mate! The 6,5 is perfect! Or is it just us scandinavian who's got a fetish for this one?

WOW All these activites just over a drilling . I am really looking forward to this commission.
I am humbled in such eminent company.

Don't worried guys I will not do anything unless I have given every options great consideration.

I personally would like a 20 bore however I am worried about ammunition availablility

I have too many 9.3 already and I hunt with all of them extensively.

Somehow I do not get good results in terms of dropping game with the 74R

It's not about placement or game size but it does not give the condidence as compared to the 62 or 64.

I hear what 1894 says about rimmed cartridges and

When I ordered my last double I reacll having many negotiations with Vincenzo Perrigini about caiber.

I did not want to go for another 74R but in the end I followed his advise and now this double is for sale after 40 shots.

Great for some people but not for me unfortunately.

I would love a 6.5mm rifle

I feel the sensible choice would be 12 bore with a 6.5 x 57R but thats too clinical.

Any more suggesttions ?

quote:

Originally posted by Anders:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Anders:
I would also opt for the 20 gauge shotgun. IMHO they handle much, much better.
Regarding the rifle barrell, what about the 6,5x57R, Ben?
I have one and like it a lot. Not the best for the biggest of game though.
Low recoil, accurate, a lot of bullets to choose from and works up to red deer without hazzle.

Here is a man who knows how to sell LH another rifle!

6.5mm you say?

Come on, mate! The 6,5 is perfect! Or is it just us scandinavian who's got a fetish for this one?

Anders,

Do you really want to get into a discussion of fetish with a man that openly declares he has a hammock for his moustache to sleep in...

I mean, what do you think he gets up to that he doesn't tell us about? & to be fair he tells us a lot!!!!

K

LH,

I love the 6.5mm but I'm not sure if it is suited to what I would want to do with a drilling. Hoewver, here is a comprimise.

You should commission a 20-20 over 6.5x57R and you should also commission a 16-16 over 8x57R. You will give the latter to me and in October we will hunt ducks and Roe/Muntjac as a scientific experiment in order to make this conclusive...

Rgds,
K

I spoke to perrugini today he has 3 drillings in the White that will be ready for firing in august

Fancy a trip to Italy fallow buck ?

I can get friends to organise some shooting there ?

LH,

Let me know the dates but I think if I travel any more in the next two months I won't actually manage to get off the plane. Not to mention when I tell Elaine that I'm in Africa for four weeks instead of two weeks.... Not sure how to break that one.

what is there to shoot in August there?

K

How about a private live pigeon shoot ?

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
How about a private live pigeon shoot ?

I'm doing that on Monday and Tuesday in Kent!!!

All recon for Gerry

K

Choices choices choices, only one thing more fun that choosing a new toy is then actually using it. Nearly as much fun is helping others choose!

LH

I'm just about to get a drilling myself, just the final choice left. What to choose. There are two options:

1. A brand new Merkel 96K Jagd 20-20/76, 7x57R with a Swarowski Z6i 1,7-10x42

or 2. Used Krieghoff Trumph 20-20/76, 7x57R with a Schmidt & Bender Zenith 1,25-4x24 illuminated

I think I'll go with the krieghoff Have to decide by thursday!

What a question. Trumpf, Trumpf, Trumpf.

3 locks, classic pur.

How much is the price difference to the Merkel?

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:
What a question. Trumpf, Trumpf, Trumpf.

3 locks, classic pur.

How much is the price difference to the Merkel?

Burkhard,

Both weapons are about the same price (9100 EUR)

Merkel already has the perfect scope & offers the option of extra shotgun or double rifle barrels.........

To my eye, it looks a bit better as well.

Decisions, decisions!

Rgds

Ian

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Merkel already has the perfect scope & offers the option of extra shotgun or double rifle barrels.........

That doesn't make my choise any easier ...I tend to like the look of trumph better, but I'd rather like the swarowski with it! However, I can always change that scope later...

Here is the Krieghoff Trumph that I consider buying.

Hi Geir,

Ok, that is a pretty bit of wood!

Decisions, decisions.

Rgds

Ian

The decision is made, and I'm now the happy owner of a Krieghoff Trumpf 20-20/76, 7x57R



More pictures to be seen at my blog

Congratulation Geir, that´s a beauty.
Terrific wood, and not to mention the blue velvet

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
Congratulation Geir, that´s a beauty.
Terrific wood, and not to mention the blue velvet

Thanks Arild! It sure is

A Krieghoff Trumpf, with such wood, for that price - which I were you.

I have used the shotgun of my rifle/shotgun to kill pests using the scope. They died immediately. Some combination guns have tunnels under the sights and so you can still use the original open sights with scope still in place. These are a lot less practical.

Modern Drillings mostly have high "hogsback" stocks to better allow "stock-weld" when using telescopes for rifle shots, but older Drillings had shotgun stocks more suitable for wing-shooting. So yes, a Drilling is a compromise.

Most Drillings tend to walk their POI for multiple shots as the rifle barrel is soldered to the shotgun barrels and cannot expand evenly. Some have thermally stable features to eliminate this.

To avoid them being heavy and less responsive in the hands, I only use 16 gauge barrels, not 12. However, for some uses, this might not be ideal. For instance, I'd use buckshot in a 16 gauge on a deer drive, but not on dangerous game. Peter Turnball-Kemp, author of The Leopard rated the Drilling as the idea leopard gun, but a 12 gauge packs a lot more punch tha a 16 if there's a charge. There are also better factory 12 ga., loads available; plated, buffered, etc.

The great thing about a Drilling is that you can break it down into a small package for travelling and yet still have a rifle and a shotgun available for use at your destination.