What is the minimum caliber/bullet weight that you would recommend for red deer? I know that different areas have very specific regulations about this - I just want to know what you think. Thanks in advance.

Your question is a bit like asking "what"s the minimum calibre for whitetail?"
There are variations in body size/weight in different countries and regions.
It takes a lot less to kill a hind than a rutting stag. I"m going to Scotland at the end of October to shoot hinds with my .243, loaded with 100 grain Speer Grand Slam. If I was going specifically for stags, I"d be bringing my .308.
Besides of local regulations, everyone will have their favourite calibre/bullet.Mine happens to be .243, but I"m in the minority!
good shooting

Legal minimum in the UK is .243, with a 100gr minimum bullet in Scotland I think, and a minimum energy requirement in England - or the other way around.

My personal minimum would be 6.5mm. Personal favourite is 270 win a 140gr.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
.....

My personal minimum would be 6.5mm. Personal favourite is 270 win a 140gr.

I'll second that!

Any 6,5 or 270 and up.

L

500 NE, then youre sure!! ))

9.3,

Depends.....

.270 Winchester with a good 130-150 grain bullet would be my suggested minimum for the Scottish Highlands. Shots can be long-g-g-ish and wind may be a factor.

.30/06 Sprg. with premium 165-180 grain bullets for Continental Europe.

My personal preference for the Rut, Dark Forests and Drive Hunts of Continental Europe is the 9.3x62.

Well 9,3............ it depends on where one intends to hunt.

For the Scottish Highlands and the somtimes large distances, a flat shooting caliber like 270 Win. would be enough for sure, altough many gamekeeper say that a 243 with 100 grain Nosler Partition is enough.

As an All-Arounder you can't go wrong with a .30-06 generally.

Here in good old Europe, we do have a lot of different sizes of red stag, depending on the altitude and region, so to speak the red stags in Eastern Europe are by far much larger in body mass then anywhere else in Europe.

For example here in Austria some of my friends hunt red stag in the mountains and they have really enough power for them out of a 270 Win., theyr weight actually is seldom more than 140 kg (appr. 300 pounds) I hunt in the flat land, close to the Hungarian borders and we do have the really big Eastern European red stags of unbelievable body mass. My friend shot one two or three years ago which has had 220 kg (approx. 485 lbs.) gutted and without head. And this is not a one-time- issue.... even the cows are most time heavier than 100 kg (220 lbs).
Sure, for these animals a .270 is considered to be the minimum - not by law but by experience! Me, I am a fan of bigger calibers, and I use for sure a lot more gun than necessary, but I don't want to run into a fiasco and loose the animal because it crosses the border to Hungary and is so lost.....
That's why I do perfectly understand, why Gerry uses mainly the 9,3 and I am sure it fit's his demands with excellence...
So to say, I would not go smaller than a powerful .30-06 with 180 grs. for our red stags, especially in the rut when they seem to be sg. like bulletproof.... My personal favourite is a .376 Steyr for distances up to 250 m (45mm high at 100m gives me 200 m being the point of aim), or my .300 WinMag.

All that said, the most important thing is shot placement. There is no animal here in Europe that will survive a good placed bullet out of a .30-06 into the lung-heart - area....

...speaking of minimum Lorenzo put it well - tho in 6,5 class I would give an 6,5x54 MS with its looong bullet a definite benefit over lets say 6,5x57...in our places some PH did the cullings of calves and hinds with 243 W (tho illegal and from highseats - close range - neck shots) but that is out of a question for a clients - btw - I saw a wounded hind shot with 222 Rem behind the shoulder, that made just 5 m and drop dead and a client that shot a big 200 kg stag with 5,6x50R Mag.(accidently pulled the wrong trigger on his O/U 5,6x50R and 7x65R) that made just 50 m...

speaking of optimum - calibers in .30 class or even better 8 mm are hard to beat (except 9,3 ) - backing up Gerry - there is no such thing like overkill on reds...

P.S. In our places (Slovenia) the most used (80%) calibers for reds are: 7x64, 7x65R, .308 Win, 30-06 Spr and 8x57 (I use 8x68S and 9,3x62)

All the calibers that mouse93 has stated are great for Reds IMO.
ozhunter

In Sweden the red deer (buck) weighs around 200 kg and the requirements are the same as for elk (moose).

Bullet weight 9 grams (139 grains) and 2700 Joule or bullet weight 10 grams (154 grains) and 2000 Joule, both at 100 metres.

The 6.5x55 is among the ones that fits within those requirements but with a lead ban on it's way.. Well, it will end up on the wrong side.

But then, about 30-40% of about 100.000 elks that are killed each year in Sweden are shotwith the 6.5x55. Or if it is 30-40% of the hunters that use 6.5x55, don't remember really.

.243 with good 100 gr bullets would the minimum I would consider.

6.5mm with 120 gr (or heavier) would be better.

But I like my .30-06 with 150 gr Nosler Partitions.

I personaly wouldn't use below a 25-06 on Scottish reds and below 6.5x55 on woodland reds.

I spent yesterday putting up highseats in the West Country for red stags next weekend. Locations vary from a narrow woodland ride plastered with sign that is so dark I put a bale of straw down for a light background. I would love my 9.3 with it's hugely thick cross hair and 232gr bullet but 5 minutes down the road I placed one overlooking a woodland edge with boggy hollows where a 250 yard shot is likely....

I shall be taking my 30-06 and 150gr interbonds or 7x57 and 140gr accubond. The choice will be made by checking scope performance at last light which is going to make more difference than any difference in the terminal ballistics of either round I think.

I am with Sniper66, 9.3x62 is my preferred and beloved.
The 7's class is the minimum entry point, if we are speaking of stags, better if in the high power class starting from the 7x64, 7mm Rem Mag etc with heavy bullets.

However more eastern you go in Europe, more big are the stalks, and more bigger and powerfull should be the rifle. A 9.3 or .375 could be a good choice in some area where there are also big very BIG Bears and Boars.

I've had the pleasure and priviledge of stalking stags in the Scottish Highlands for several years. As others have noted, Scottish hill stags are not exceptionally large. (But they offer an incredible and unique hunting adventure!) Over these years I've used a 30-06, 7-08, 270, and 6.5x55. My personal favorite is the 6.5x55. I've taken 38 stags with these various rifles and calibers. As far as I can tell, none of the stags ever knew the difference among these calibers. One thing to note is that the shots taken on Scottish estates are almost always conservative -- shooting only at stags standing broadside. This year, I'll be taking a 7x57 because it is my newest rifle.

This week I guided three hunters for bulls in the rut:
1. Shot at around 120m with the .300Weatherby and trhe 185grs Lapua-Mega: after shot the bull was running 80m, no exit-hole!! No blood on his last way! Heavy hamatomes on the whole inside !
One sholder broken, heavy damage inside, the other side of the body without any hole!
2. Shot at around 170m with the 7mm vom Hofe and the 170grs Torpedo-Stoppringbullet, the bull runs about 200m with only little blood in the track, one shoulder broken, the outsidehole over the liver!
3. very old heavy bull: Shot at around 150m with the .308Win. and the 180grs Lapua-Naturalis, one shoulder broken, outsidehole one inch behind the other shouler, bull run 50m with a lot of blood in his track!

I have the same opion like Mousy, my personal favorites are the 8x64 S and the 8x75 RS.

Noticable is, that the bulls are much harder in the rut than in other times and I don`t like hunters with rifles under the 7x64/ .30/06-class in the rut!

Somehow , the 358 norma is a wonderfull choice for a cartridge after red deer and the Maral deer in Russia . a 250 grain NP or Swift A-Frame is a good bullet to put in on that one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:
This week I guided three hunters for bulls in the rut:
1. Shot at around 120m with the .300Weatherby and trhe 185grs Lapua-Mega: after shot the bull was running 80m, no exit-hole!! No blood on his last way! Heavy hamatomes on the whole inside !
One sholder broken, heavy damage inside, the other side of the body without any hole!
2. Shot at around 170m with the 7mm vom Hofe and the 170grs Torpedo-Stoppringbullet, the bull runs about 200m with only little blood in the track, one shoulder broken, the outsidehole over the liver!

QUOTE]

That does not take me wonder at all, Monastery Froester.... in the first case the bullet choice ist definately the wrong one. Altough der Mega is considered to be a hard bullet with a rather heavy jacket, it was designed und developped for standard velocities and for the maximum of .300 Win.Mag, which would not provide as much vel. as the 300 Weatherby for sure.... an the result of this shot speaks for itself.... altough the Mega is a wonderful bullet in std. vel. cartridges.....

7 mm S.E. vom Hofe caliber was also never designed for red stag hunting in the flat area, as far as I know, it was made for long range shots in the Alpine regions and there the critters are a lott less in body mass.....

My experience is, that one does not need a high-speed bullet for successful red stag hunting, even in the rut when they are tougher than anything else on earth....what counts is diameter and deep penetration.... You know that perfectly, you are shooting several "cervus elaphus" and "capreolus capreolus" every year, don't you? And you and your dogs are often out finding wounded game....so.... no surprise at all, hm?

A 7 mm may expand........but a 375 would never shrink.....

The Client Shot a 54 Kg (gutted, about 155 lbs. live weight) Spießer Stag (Pricket or a Spike) on Saturday evening at 19:15 hrs. Range = 75 meters, in thick forest. One perfect high-lung shot, standing broadside; in one side; out the other. The Stag staggered about 8-10 steps and keeled over. Gutted it, took a couple photos, drove to the Cool House to hang it and was sitting in a Guest House with a Schnitzel, Pommes and Beer reveiwing the digital photos by 20:30.

Cartridge, the 9.3x62, with 286 grain PMP Flat Point!

Just the way I like it; no fusss - no muss!

Following some load development I will be using my 30-06 and 165gr partition at 2,800fps. In the UK hard heavy bullets are not in vogue but if I can recover a 150gr interbond from a 28kg fallow it seems foolish to attempt to use it on a potentialy 150kg stag.....

I have tried off and on since 2000 for a West Country woodland stag - if I get to put the cross hairs on one I want to know that short of a complete front on shot I am going to get a blood trail for the dog!

I shot only 1 stag, in Romania during the rut. It was far, I could wait, but the adrenalinic excitment was so strong that I shooted at the bull. I was using a 7x64 with cartridges reloaded using 160 grains Nosler Partition bullets.

Probably more far the the about 200 meters estimated, and probably the not completely stable position I hit it at the liver. if I shooted with a water rifle I had the same effect .... nothing.
I shooted again and a third time, but it was running toward to me and the disappeared in the bush, beeing just wounded by my shots.
Another shot closed the hunt.
What could happened if I had my 9.3x62 with me that time? Simply I had waited waiting the right moment hitting and punching it harder.

Steve...... I hope you got him?

These are exactly the reasons, why I make absolutely no compromises hunting red stag in the rut. I shot two smaller ones two weeks ago within 20 seconds. They were moving broadside only about 140 m in front of me. The first shot out of my .376 Steyr knocked the first one off to the ground as Thor's hammer has hitted him, the second one was confused and ran directly in my direction. When I ejected the empty brass it took notice and ran straight away from me. I moved the red dot of my Schmidt & Bender on his neck and sent the bullet on it's way and he went down immediately. I didn't see him fall.....no surprise. So....two red stags in 20 seconds was not so bad.
What I want to say is that one is much more self confident when you know that you can rely on the chosen caliber and be pretty sure that it will not make any compromises in getting them down immediately. If I wouldn't have seen the first one being knocked off, I wouldn't have shot at the second one...

Yes, I got it.
Shortly, the Romenian Padulari (gamekeeper)made the first error of that day as he continued to tell me that I did not hit the bull, I was a little KO because I got hitted by my Schmidt&Bender on the high part of the nose and it was difficult for me to react properly.

This until he fount a (litterally) freeway of blood. He became immediately a bloodhound. And he made the second mistake of that day. Instead to stop and rest some minute, eventually stopping the blood running from the wounded nose, he easily tracked, for some minute, until he arrived near the dieing stag. Of course it got up with the last energies and runned in the wood for about 200 meters. There were more than a pot of dark blood on the ground where it was resting.

The Padulari continued running, staying between me and the stag, and while running urged me to shoot again to finish the poor animal. He did not realized that I could hit the stag only passing thru his head, not a pleasant sensation for him

When the stag dropped again I gave to the stag the coup de grace.

Just to be precise, I hitted tha stag with all the 4 shots, 2 ( the first and the last one)were deadly, one could cause much pain but it was not dangerous, lat last one was more or less a piercing in the fold of the knee.

...speaking of the devil - just got back from tracking this young stag (100 kg) - that was shot with 7x64 with Sierra SPT 140 gr. down the slope - stag was quartering away - entry high at hind ribs bullet ended in opposite shoulder - did not went far (150 m) tho not a single blood drop on entire trail


and just for a comparison - a mature - fully grown SE Europe stag next to a young 3 y.o. stag (Scotish type) - sory - heads only tho just to get a feeling of the size:



...using bigger callibers with hard heavy bullets that will give you an exit wound can save one a lot of trouble...

close range with a 222 neck shot works well! ive heard of people shooting wapiti/elk with 222's in the neck, mature bulls.

In NZ the 303 has probably shot the largest ammount of red deer out of any calibure here.. 270s seem to be very popular with a lot opting for 7mm. dont think anyone goes above 30cal, that i have heard about anyway.

There is alot to be said for the 8*68 and the .300 Win Mag with 200 grs bullets. I would say the .270 is a good minimum, however bullet choice is paramount!!!! I use a 300 Win in my Blaser

Aleko

Well first you have to see a red stag. My jinx continues with 7 outings and not a deer of any description sighted in the most appalling weather I've yet stalked in.

I return in 2 weeks with my 06. Fingers crossed.

Hi 1894,

Which rifle are you hoping to use on the staggie when he turns up?

Is it that you see no reds when you go out or just that you don't see any that you want to shoot?

Good luck on the next trip.

FB

FB,

By the end of the weekend I would have shot a stag calf! I didn't see even a part of a roe it was so wet.

I shall be taking my 30-06 next time.

I now the feeling!!

How do you go about extracting the Stag? I've seen the Norfolk stags they they are some seriously big animals!!

I was assured by my mat e that I wouldn't get it into my car opn my own...

FB

This is a bit of an open ended question as Red Deer vary considerably in size and some can be quite large indeed, especially when crossed with Wapiti. Also hunting conditions influence caliber choice.

Reds in Scotland are generally much smaller than those down in southern England. If you are travelling all the way for a trophy hunt, as a number of others have suggested, I would start with a 270. My personal favorite is a 270 loaded with 150 Noslers. Bigger is generally better of course.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
How do you go about extracting the Stag? I've seen the Norfolk stags they they are some seriously big animals!!

I was assured by my mat e that I wouldn't get it into my car opn my own...
FB

One of the reasons I was so irritated with the blank was the amount of time, effort and money I have devoted to this question.

I've bought a second hand 4WD power barrow and had a friend make a carcass carrier for complete with hand winch to get it on. I've bought a trailor for this and for any carcassess I might (looking increasingly unlikely) get. Some areas are so steep/rough that I can't even get in with that. I have a detachable power winch that runs off the car battery/tow hitch with 30m of wire plus a coil of 200m of rope plus various strops. If all else fails I have a knife, a large rucksac and an agreement that the game dealer will buy a quartered stag....

Totting it all up I could have bought a seriously good gold medal stag in the UK - that said I should be able to use this equipment for a lifetime (providing it doesn't get nicked)

My freind in norfolk came up against the same problems as you when he first took on his ground with Stags. They seem to behave so differently to the other deer that it took a while for him to score at first. There are a couple of reasons that he sites for his initial problems. The main problem was currrent or past nght time activity that made the deer alter their natural patterns, making them difficult to get to grips with.

It'll all change in the Rut though I'm sure. I was up there last year at the start of November and it was all going off big style in the wood behind me. Had we have had access to the small peice of forestry I have no doubt that my fireplace would look very different right now!! As it was I spent a couple of hours at about 2 below freezing listening to a big guy about 100m away!!

Good luck anyway and keep us posted on how you get on. Hopefully the 30-06 will get to see some action.

Rgds,
FB