Post on another forum.

This is in addition to the SxS Holland and Holland that another friend in the UK wanted to take on a trip there.

Sad state of affairs! And one wonders what good these senseless rules are supposed to do?? It just goes to show, when you first get a stupid and useless rule on your books, you can almost never get rid of it again.

Btw, it IS actually possible to own military caliber guns in France. But I believe it is associated with some redtape to get the permission - I imagine one starts by applying at the "prefecture".

Wink and JB should be able to fill you in with more information here...

- mike

Yeah the calibre restrictions are a pain. They were essentially passed to control the large ammount of military "surplus" that was arround after the world wars. But the reality is just as those other posters suggest, that there are tons of old Lebel, enfield, springfield, mauser, etc. rifles and ammunition in France that remains hidden. I've several friends who clean out "granpas" or "uncle Pierre's" atic when they pass away and discover some old rifle. They go down to the local gunshop to find out what it is and buy some ammo for it and then they find out that is a Lebel, or Enfield, etc. that its been illegal for decades for their familly to have it...

Same in Belgium where you can buy a Enfield nr. 1 Mk III (not a nr. 4 !) as a freely sold wallhanger. .303 ammo is not free though and subjected to a licence to possess a military rifle. So, firing your relic is illegal unless you apply for said licence.

Not for sure you can not own a .303 in France , maybe you need to buy with a buy permit from the prefecture ( Police ) but I read French magazines and you can own it , with the right permit military calibres as .5.56x45 .308 winchester are OK , as you can see adds for Sig 550 or M14 , Colt 45 acp or 9x19 maybe pain in the as* do the paper work and red tape but you can own a military rifles/ Pistols , maybe you can go to the following sites:
http://www.tirmilitaria.com/forum/
http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/index.php

Saludos

daniel

All weapons and the cartridges they fire which were adopted by almost any army in the world are classified as "war material" under French law, which is known as "1st Categorie". So, whether they be rifles, pistols, machine guns, submachine guns, whatever, they can only be owned by private individuals who obtain an authorization from the "Prefecture". I've got 6 (or is it seven?) of these authorizations and they are not too difficult to obtain. Every legally owned handgun in France means the owner has one of these authorizations and there are thousands. The short method to know if your weapon is 1st categorie is to know the answer to the question, "Was this weapon, or this cartridge, ever a military issue somewhere in the world?". If yes then it is probably 1st catégorie.

To obtain the authorization you need to be a member of a gun club for at least six months and the club applies, on your behalf, to their national organization which delivers a "favorable recommendation" for the firearm you want ot obtain and you send this with an application form to the Prefecture. You wait a couple of months and you get your "authorization". The authorizations have to be renewed every three years. It is very easy to obtain but it takes awhile.

Importing "war materiel" is a real pain in the ass. I know, I have done it. There the red tape is complicated by the "Catch 22" requirement that you need an export license from the country of origin but sometimes to obtain that you need the "import license" from the other. It can be done from the USA as that is what I did.

To buy a rifle in a non-military caliber in France you now have to be a member of a gun club or possess a valid hunting licence. However, if you have one of these two documents it is an over the counter sale and you walk out of the store with the rifle or shotgun. No two week waiting period. Let's put this into perspective: most buyers of firearms in France are either hunters or shooters who belong to a gun club. They just walk into a store and buy their rifle or shotgun and walk out. Easier than in the USA where you wait a couple of weeks.

Wink,

Waiting periods differ from state to state - they usually are two working days, not weeks. For a pre 1898 gun like the William and Moore that my friend is talking about, no permit would have been neccessary in most states in the USA - it could be delivered to your door.

There are anomalies in gun laws everywhere, but a restriction on a 303 Lee Speed sporter in this case or a Holland and Holland double in another case because of the calibre, the old and obsolescent 303 just because it was once a military chambering are silly, however you try to explain them. The formalities of joining clubs etc are only more red tape. These are not destructive devices that we are talking about.

Hi Wink

Thank you for the answer this clarifies the French Laws , as usually a Spanish hunter goes to France bought a shotgun and come to register to the Guardia Civil , and they can't believe he bought the shotgun without any problem or questions , as in Spain all the guns are 1st categorie no matter caliber or type .

Thak s

Daniel

Mehul, I certainly don't want to give the impression that I think French gun control laws are "just as good" or "not worse than" gun laws in other countries, nor are they rational in my opinion. I just point out that gun laws are pretty irrational in most places, but local politics and history are more important than reason and effectiveness. In California a weapon which looks like "an assault weapon" is banned. And if you buy a single shot shotgun there you will wait for two weeks before you can take delivery. And for a handgun you have to provide proof of having taken a safety training course and I don't know how many other rules they have. Since in France almost all public and private ranges are managed by "clubs" just about everyone who shoots signs up for a very moderate membership fee with free access for one year. In that context, buying most rifles and shotguns is in fact less bureaucratic and time consuming than buying a firearm in California. I certainly won't deny that rendering a little more difficult the purchase of weapons chambered for former military calibers doesn't make sense but that's the way it is here, just like waiting two weeks in California is the way it is there, the logic only seems pertinent in the particular context in which it exists. I forgot to add that black powder weapons require no membership in anything, nor does buying black powder, lead bullets or caps. In France weapons before 1895 (I'm not sure about the exact date) are also classified as "collectibles" and they do not require any special documentation either, if my memory is correct. Perhaps Edmond will chime in with correct facts on this aspect as I don't own and have never purchased weapons in that category.