I pulled this off another site.

Quote:
On the subject of Ryan..that's a little close to home.I was with him at the Wiltshire Shooting Centre in Devizes when he brought the AK in,he'd just bought it from Westbury guns in Westbury and got his 300 rounds of steel cased steel core commie block ammo from Dave & Andy at WSC.He didn't have any ammo for the M1 carbine as WSC had none in stock.Ironically enough he couldn't get the magazine into the AK (the tilt and turn method) and got quite arsey when we all took the ###### about it.Of all the shooters there he was always the one who bitched when we used to shoot at coke cans and fag packets on the 100 yard indoor rifle range "They aren't approved targets" etc etc and not once in the 2 years I shot at the same club did he EVER rurn up in combats ...

Had all the facts come out about the hungerford incident the new gun laws probably would never have gone through ,instead there would have been some red faces and sideways promotions in the local constabulary.

Just a few interesting facts that youmay wish to look at when people wonder why I'm cynical...

He had NO armour piercing ammo,he simply had M39 steel cored commie block stuff.Steel cores are used to promote tumblin and for reasons of cost.(this I know to be true as I still have some of the empties from that day at the club that I personally fired through his rifle)

The counter signature on his Firearms application was provided by the police officer who lived next door.

He had previously had his shotgun ticket revoked for "reasons of public safety" but it was returned after his mother made a complaint.

He was shot through the right upper jaw hinge just below the temple leaving no signs of powder burns from a gun publicly stated that was taped to his left hand.(Ryan was a lefty)

Again publicly stated he removed the magazine keeping one round in the chamber that he shot himself with(His 92F varient had been modified for target use and had a disconector sear that prevented it firing without the magazine in place)(I used that very pistol at the club 4 days before he used it in hungerford)

The impinge glass from the fatal shot to his head was on the INSIDE of the window on the floor.(If you want to see what I'm getting at fire a shot at a sheet of glass!)

There are a number of others things that don't add up about the entire incident but here isn't the place as I don't want to go off on what may appear to be an anti establishment rant.
There does need to be gun laws to protect the public and society from the most dangerous people IN society however never in legal history has penalising the honest ever had an effect on the criminal other than to make the honest easier targets.



Any thoughts?

Dan

read the sportsman"s association news in the front of gun mart magazine. there could be some serious controversy if they can get a new inquiery into Dunblane. here"s hoping.
good shooting

I've actually got that issue in front of me now (it was in my desk drawer at work!!) For those that don't know.
The Dunblane enquiry documents were put under a 100year closure order and that has now been lifted because putting them under a 100year order has now been deemed illegal.

Wonder what else they're covering up

I for one don't want to read about this sort of thing in a Big Game Hunting forum

1894mk2,

The post was aimed at the British contingent on the site, who, like myself probably don't read the political sections.
Without the support of ALL British Shooters we all run the risk of losing the sport we enjoy, whether it be target shooting, Big game hunting, Clay pidgeon or even fishing!!
Once one goes the others will follow and we can't let the happen.

You can't go big game hunting without guns can you

I dislike it as a topic and indeed as a post - that sort of conspiracy stuff has absolutely nothing to do with hunting and IMHO is weird. It contributes nothing but is pretty offensive.

Sorry if it seems rude but I think it's the internet at it's worst.

I'll second 1894. Who cares?!! Why live in the past?

Third'ed... should be moved to the political forum...

Gents,

The two incidents that this thread refers to resulted in the imposition of the draconian firearms laws we as Brits have to live with today. As such, I think they have impacted us all, no matter what type of shooting we indulge in.

As long as the subject is discussed in a civilised manner, I am happy for it to remain here as I don't consider it "off topic."

If people don't like this particular subject for what ever reason, please feel free to ignore the thread.

I very much like the fact that this particular forum virtually never needs "moderating" and I personally believe less intervention by moderators the better..

Regards,

Pete

thanks Pete! needed said.
good shooting

Excuse my ignorance but I haven't read the articles in question.

Where's the conspiracy?

FB

+1 to brass thief,


FB,

The "conspiracy" angle came from me stating
"wonder what else their covering up?"

If this is offended anyone then I am sorry.

But.... if a government is willing to illegally lock away documents for 100years that punished 57,000 pistol owners for the deeds of one individual then, in all honesty it does make me wonder what else they've covered up.
I don't want or need a reply to my opinion and I'm not looking for support for it either.
I'm just hoping to educate the Brits out there, that may, through whatever reason, not know, why we don't have pistols anymore, and why we can't fairly represent ourselves in events at an Olympic Games that we will actually be hosting in 2012.

Dan

Dan,
Ryan is dead with the compliments of us all, but far more important is to remember what he did! yes we lost our guns but not our children, spare a thought for the families involved. Who cares who shot him?
We have moved on, they ain't comin back.
As 1894 said it is offensive! this belongs on the political forum, this is a highly emotive subject especially if you were involved with the legislation that arose from it.
Pete, this should be moved to the PF where they can rant and rave about the injustices of it all, conspiracy my arse! if he hadn't shot himself then I would of hoped that the police would of done it.
This shows a lack of respect!!

regards
Griff

It whould be nice if the dunblaine events could be re investigated and the truth be shown, but i fear i will not see this in my life time.

The "Guntrader general discussion forum" have been well ruined by this sort of posting.
I'm with 1894- keep politics out of country sports!

Agree with Transpond on this one - there are more appropriate forums on this site.

Post a link if you feel that it needs to come to the attention of another forum's members.

This way - everyone is happy!

Trans - but what does one do when Westminster comes calling?

rgds Ian

I read something interesting in a shooting magazine after the Dunblane shooting ,about a reporter talking to a politician in England at a press conference .The politician stated that ''the banning of handguns had nothing to do with the Dunblane shooting ,and that by the year 2015 or 2020 [cant remember exact year]there would be no jobs,no social security ,people would be rioting in the streets and the last thing the government wanted was civilians owning guns'',in Australia the New industrial relations laws are taking away vitually all workers rights, and the unions have done nothing about it .In France recently, their have been riots over new laws on employment .Evidently the ''powers that be '' the U.N has got a ''plan '' so unpleasant for us ,that they are doing their darndest to take our guns first [even if that means many innocent people are slaughted ]to achieve their ultimate unpleasant design for their New World Order .

this topic has generated a lot of interest and some strong views, but i think making peace is more important than making a point. i personally don"t want to see this forum degenerating into the schoolyard name calling seen on other forums, so i"m going to post a thread on the political slot, and let"s hope we can keep the European forums civil(or at least till we lose our guns!)
good shooting

So people want the forum moderated so that the topics are strictly related to "European Big Game Animals"??

So along with moving this topic, I should also move topics related to rifles to more appropriate forums such as the small medium, or large calibre forums, or maybe gunsmithing?

Scope and bino topics could be moved to the Optics forum, and of course references to fox, rabbit and pigeon shooting would also need to be moved as they are not "game"...

Lets not forget about the odd item for sale that appears here; they should quite properly go in the Classified forums and to round it out, perhaps accounts of paid stalks or hunts should maybe go in the Hunting Report Forum???

Hungerford and Dunblane were terriable, terriable events carried out by two deranged individuals. Having said that, I as a shooter had nothing to do with either event, and I am fed up with the PC stance that we shooters somehow bare "collective resposibilitiy" for the actions of these two evil individuals.

If we have a major rail crash or some other horrific incident, there are always cry's for a public enquiry to get to the truth so that we can prevent such things happening again and bring to account anybody who may be responsible.. Nobody says that is offensive??

I see the posts here as no different..None of the posts try to lessen the evil of these actions, & none set out to slur the memory of the innocent victems either...

So again I will say that if you find a particular topic not to your liking, simply don't open it!

If you *just* have to open it, consider that by replying, you are simply bumping the subject back to the top and giving it a new lease of life...

At the end of the day all I ask is that any discussion generated on these forums is in some way related to hunting or shooting in Europe and that those discussions are carried out in a gentlemanly and civil manner.

Lets show a bit of tollerance to our fellow posters and have a forum with a minimum of regulation or moderation...

Regards,

Pete

I agree with Pete completely, this forum is exactly where this thread should be. I'm a Brit myself albeit an ex-pat one...... (IMHO) it's the Brit fear of the politically correct factor in our population in the UK that has bought firearm owners and hunters to the situation as it is now. You guys need to be a lot more radical if you want to preserve your firearm freedoms. Polite bleating and marches on a sunny sunday afternoon won't achieve squat. If you want to draw the publics attention to injustice and scaprgoat seeking politicians, you need to hold the march on a Monday morning beginning before the rush hour. Bring your tractors, dogs, horses, hounds and cars into central London, park badly (they can't tow 'em all away) and go for a walk. Make the entire city grind to a halt for the entire day.......and don't do it once, do it repeatedly.

Seems to me some people are even afraid to discuss the Dunblane etc situations here for some reason..........

OK, rant over! It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular just at what I see as the ridiculous British fear of offending someone.

I rather like the style of the French farmers... they kick ass when they feel the need...... but it sure as hell works for them.