Pete, MHO

the hunt is for the first 5 days in May. Can be either Bavaria or the Czech Republic, or both. Will include Boar if seen. Mostly high seat although I have never hunted that way and I am not sure that I have the patience.

I will be the guest of a friend of mine on his clubs and I don't want to reflect poorly on him because of my dress or lack of 'Hunter code'. I'd be a lot less worried if I had purchased a hunt.

I am leaning toward Wool and poly in darker shades. A Filson oiled hat and a Camo sportcoat for dinner.

To say how the May will be, is very difficult. Last year we had nice dry and warm whether. But I also know the first week with snow.
But not really cold, except you will be in the mountains.

Czech Republic the same.

So be prepared for temperatures a bit under 0� Celsius in worst case.
In best case you may have 23� and sunshine at the day. But to let some pieces in the baggage when it is warmer than expectet is much more easier than the other way.

Best regards

Hunting in May is troublesome. You WILL freeze your butt of as you dress for daytime temperatures while the hunt will be in dusk-dawn. Take good cover-all underwear and pack an extra sweater. I expect (hope) that there will be no driven hunts that time of the year.



A few tips in order to show good manners (I don't know if these rules are valid where you will hunt, or if I've forgotten anything - hopefully others will contribute to this list):

* Carry the deer, if you shoot one, head first

* Place a twig or some grass in its mouth before taking pictures.

* No military-looking equipment. Use dark clothes.

* Only clean shots from broadside or front (and frontal shots only at very close range) - "mexican heart shots" are frowned upon.

* watch your language when talking about the game - derogatory terms are a definite no-no

* Ask your host what he thinks is a long distance in these environments and stick to that. A successful too-long shot will still be regarded as disgraceful.

* ask your host if he has any restrictions on what roe bucks (I expect only bucks are legal that part of year) can be shot and what bucks should be spared.

* If you hunt boar - SPEND SOME TIME RIGHT NOW studying the looks of the males visavi the females. You don't want to shoot a sow this time of year and they are darn difficult to distinguish.

* It's considered honorable to pass a shot you're unsure of. It's dishonorable to shoot in a bad or unknown situation.



Hunting techniques:

* If it is real p�rsch-style hunting, i.e. stalking, then consider the option of stalking as little as possible and only move in for a cleaner shot. You will see what the terrain looks like and how noisy it is.

* As already stated - soft sole boots, quiet clothing, binoculars and shooting sick is great to have.

* Since you hunt in the low light - wear a broad hat (hey - use a Stetson!! ). This will inmprove your night vision - the sky is brighter than the ground you're watching.

* camo mask is probably OK, if not then take it on when left alone. Roe deers use their eyesight in a way moose don't. But even more important are thin dark gloves - hand movements are faster than head movements and an ungloved hand can scare a roe deer from a long distance.

Very good. Just to nitpick : the "twig" part = last bite ritual is reserved for male animals.

Thank you for the advice. I will be using a borrowed rifle as we are spending additional time in Europe and I don't want to drag it around with the problems it may cause. I appreciate the part referencing the etiquitte. Other than the carry of the animal and the twig it is not much different than the way I hunt anyway.

Thanks.

Regarding May weather....I've done hunts in Poland where we got scorched away by the spring sun. In the morning you go out dressed for night temperatures and you die coming back, in the afternoon you go out *anticipating* night temperatures and you die going in. I remember short, short nights...having dinner at 10 or so, not getting to bed before midnight, and getting up at four. But the fresh greens after a long winter, and the concerts of the birds made it all worth it.

Frans

One more thing... I've heard, but never hunted in areas where this is the custom, that you may never step over a shot animal, not even when gutting it. You take a few steps around it instead it you need to work from the opposite angle. I recall this is central-european-something and it may be good to keep in mind.

Regards,
/HerrBerg

Quite sure, here's a pic scanned from a book.

It also shows the correct positioning of the shoulder twig (broken end to the front for male and the other way around for female).

Andre,

I believe the twig in the bucks mouth represents the so called "last bite" but what is the significance of the shoulder twig? Are the beasts actually laid out so they aretouching, or is that just the way it appears in the photo?

Regards,

Pete

I ezeally don't know the origin of the shoulder twig, maybe to hide the wound ? Shown animals are laying a little close together, all right, it's probably the angle it's seen from. In a formal "tableau", there's a ranking order to lay out game, according to status (see drawing):

Who does all of this? Who puts the twig in the mouth, on the shoulder etc.? What should the novice hunter do? Try to help, stay out of the weigh, by a round at the Pub?

You will always be welcome to buy a round at the pub, I believe, as long as the Yank leaves the choosing of beer to the Bavarians and the Chechzs Would be sad if you managed to go through the hunt because of all our advise and then blew it all by trying to buy that alcoholic mineral water you call beer over there



First of all, but there may be different teachings here, but I think that the one thing to be proud of is the hunt - not the trophy. You can shoot a gold buck by pure accident and you can make a magnificient hunt on a doe. The moose I am most proud of was a calf, the roe deers I am most proud of is indeed a buck but it is a small trophy and nobody but me would ever notice its greatness on my wall. I'll put a twig in a doe's mouth anytime, but of course only on animals I've shot myself. A great trophy is a sign of good game management where you hunt, not a sign of a great hunter.



The shoulder twig is hopefully placed on the shoulder

You cover the bullet wound with that one, sparing the game the humiliation of showing its wounds - but this custom has the benefit of showing everybody clearly where the shots have hit and as I said earlier - it is dishonorable to take bad shots or too shoot in overly difficult situations.



Having to place a twig on the belly will teach the hunter some manners and hopefully he will choose his shots better next time. The twig thing is of course not only for photographic sessions - it is for when the game is laid down for display or when you gather together after a session of driven hunts.



Regards,

/HerrBerg

Traditionally, the stalker/game keeper will proceed. He will also drench a twig in the blood and present it to you on the blade of his knife. After taking his hat off, he will greet you with a "Waidman's Heil !" (= a legendary mysthical hunter). You're then supposed to take off your hat, thank him by answering "Waidman's Dank !" and affix the bloodied twig in your hatband. When returning to the meeting place, the rest of the party will spot you from afar as having been successful, so be prepared to buy the drinks...

HerrBerg presented a sensible explanation regarding the "shoulder twig". I'll buy that.

Take care to affix the bloodied twig on the right side of your hat, and with the apex upside.
Only in sad occasions (hunter funeral ) you could affix it on the left side and with the cutted part upside.

waidmannsheil!

Massimo

Boy, this is getting a lot more complicated than I thought. I'm going to print all this out and read it every night before hunting. Thanks for the information though.

And if you don't follow all the rules exactly you will be shot!

I went pigeon decoying in England when I lived there. I went over to visit some of the other guys in another spot seeing there were no pigeons. I carried the shotgun ready just in case.

Later I noticed the other fellows used to slip their shotguns when leaving the hide.

I was told we are here decoying, not rough shooting. Lord Muckinboots has the rights to driven and rough shoots on this property.

One reason many of our ancestors left the "Old World". Too many bloody rules!

I do like hunting in Europe but spending years learning rules in how to lay sprigs of trees, correct hunting words for the right times etc is a bit ridiculous.

I do like the simple traditions of Waidmansheill / Waidmannsdank and the last meal sprig etc though.

I also liked the comment that a trophy does not mean the best hunter, it means the best game management. Many places it just means the deepest pockets!

Yeah, it can get a bit much - in particular if you happen into some stickler for the "letter of the law". Such persons exist. While I appreciate the need and importance of keeping traditions alive, in real life very few people actually follow all these rules to their last detail. Typically, the "last bite" (twig in mouth), "Schuetzenbruch" (twig in hat), and the offering of the Schuetzenbruch to the hunter is observed. Every last detail of how the twig is placed etc etc is for specialists only. For most of us, hunting is supposed to be an activity to enjoy in our spare time, and enjoyment would soon disappear if we had to run around observing every last traditional rule. If somebody complains about that, I personally write him off as a pedant - quite a few of those around
- mike

Just ask your host what the dress is and what the protocol is.. All thtat tradition stuff is a big deal and you show respect by adhereing to it. May get you a repeat invitation. You can say you are getting lots of information from folks off the net and arwe almost overwhelmed.. When I was in Germany, the hunters wore coat and tie with brimmed hats and such. Was kind of formal compared to what we are use to here. Then you were entitled to the "liver and lights". The land owner or the stae got the meat. All I do know it was very exensive and you are most fortunate to have this opportunity.

Indeed. Common sense will get you far and the inner part of how you hunt is more important than the paintwork. Respect the game and the rest will come naturally.

Funeral dresscode for hunters is waaaaaay beyond my leauge.

Actually what you say there is true. I know of one pheasant shoot in the UK where the full tweeds and tie is expected. If you do not wear them, you need not try to attend next year.

Is the formal laying out of game still done a lot or is this just for larger driven shoots?

My last tour in Germany was 25 yrs ago so I am not sure what has changed. I doubt that much has changed since the hunt is so tradition bound and I am reasonably sure prices have not gone down. The germans were squeezing the U. S. Forces out and raising prices by 1979. I got my 3 roe deer and a hirsch in 1965. Guide fees were a dollar a day and The Association of Rod and Gun Clubs paid the trophy fees. It was great fun. Enjoy the hunt.
Also understand that only doubles are alloweed on these hunts in UK. Matched doubles were preferred.

NitroX, mho,

seems that my poor english appeared a little rude.

It wasn't my intention to be pedant!

I only tried to explain Mickey a detail of a custom that I learned from older hunters and always forgot when, quivering hands and adrenaline pumping, I receive a brunch from the game-keeper

Nito X,

I would be suprised if someone did not turn up for a driven pheasant shoot at least wearing a tie, or a cravat at a pinch.

I think it is the norm and good manners!

Rough shooting or stand one/drive one grouse is another story - wear what is comfy.

gamsjager

I was teasing a little when I said "about all these rules".

I think it is polite to try to live within the customs of one's hosts.

A place like Australia has next to no hunting customs and traditions so actually I find all these posts interesting and informative. Please keep them coming.


"gamsjager" I presume that means chamois hunter? Or is my little German incorrect?

Deerdogs

I only had the pleasure to attend one driven pheasant shoot. Actually none of the gentlemen wore the traditional tweeds and no ties ( ).

But there was a young shooter named Lancelot.

And I was very happy to be loaned a nice double Jeffrey 12-bore.


Please keep the customs coming, I don't want to divert the purpose of Mickey's excellent thread.

NitroX,
your german is correct

chamois: beautiful game, fantastic hunt up in the mountains

waidmannsheil!

Herr Gams

A tradition I was told about. I was told when an Austrian jager takes his first chamois (gams) he wears a gold ring in his left ear (I think).

But I have never seen a German (or Austrian) hunter with an ear-ring (unless they have green or blue spiky hair!) .

Is the gold ear ring tradition correct?

Nitro,

It used to be tradition that a sailor wore a gold earing once he'd sailed round Cape Horn.
Once you get everyone wearing earings, the tradition doesn't mean much any more.

NitroX,
no holes in my ears

Actually I saw same younger hunters with ear-rings, but I suppose that is a custum related with "two legs" game hunting instead of chamois hunting!

W.H.