medved, I followed up on your assertion about the legality of hunting with a firearm in a caliber listed as Categorie 1, to be used for hunting by a non-resident who visits France to hunt. I called the Office National de Chasse et de Faune Sauvage tel: (33) 1 44 15 17 17 as well as the Garderie de Chasse in Rambouillet, tel: (33) 1 30 41 74 94. Their answer is a firm "NON" you cannot legally hunt with a weapon chambered in any caliber on the category 1 list, even as a foreign visiting hunter. I do not know where you got your information (having done it doesn't mean it is legal, just that the customs officers and forestry officials didn't apply the law) but I will abide by what the legal documents I have obtained indicate and what the concerned authorities tell me when contacted directly. I don't think I am wrong on this, in spite of your uncle's experience.

hello,

this is France some give advices.

well this is the answer you got but the answer made again by french consulate in quebec city today is not the same ... who s right who s not ???!!! but i doubt he was able to hunt with ONF and chamois with same guide without trouble during his license dirigee and of course after crossing not only customs but police too ....


again this caliber is not legal to hunt for a french resident but legal for a non resident as it can provide it s legal in his own country especially for a UE one ...

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/fr/lvb/l14011.htm

the 30-06 and 308 in normal hunting rifle are classified into C category so the UE passport is giving the righ to go there to hunt and also tell me if a german hunter want to go in spain by the road to hunt in spain with his 30-06 how he can proceed ??? legally speaking this is possible ....

direction générale des douanes et droits indirects (bureau E/2, 23 bis rue de
l'Université 75700 PARIS 07 SP, tel: 01 44 74 46 79/80, télécopie: 01 44 74 45 85).

plus this link from US french embassy
http://www.info-france-usa.org/intheus/customs/6000.asp nothing on not the 30-06 nor 308 not allowed ??!!!

this is where (both links) the consulate sent my uncle and the same info came from Vancouver consulate where he lived before ...

anyway as usual french administrations is given as many advices as many people you ask and consult ...

report later this year if it was a go or not ...

see you

Hi
You can have a handgun for humane dispatch in the UK :~).

medved, you need to read a little more closely both of the directives you provided links for. The first link, to the EU directive, clearly states (my own freehand translation) that "it applies to all firearms, excluding armes de guerre" Under French law Category 1 is the definition of armes de guerre and the ammunition for it.

In the link you provided to the US Consulate it says basically the same thing. You can only enter the territory of France with a category 1 weapon if it is to be used in a shooting competition and with prior authorization. Here again they are specific about category 1, which by the way means 30.06 and .308 among many others. The precise language on the US Consulate link you provided is:

"YOU ARE NOT A PERMANENT RESIDENT OF FRANCE AND YOU WISH TO IMPORT DURING YOUR VISIT ARTICLES LISTED UNDER CATEGORIES I AND IV

You may only do so if you are intending to take part in a sporting event organized under the auspices of a member of a licensed Rifle Association. You will have to submit to Customs at the port of entry the official invitation to take part in the event, specifying the dates, venue, types of weapons to be used, etc."

This refers to competitive, organized shooting events, not hunting.

You would be incorrect to think that Frenchmen or residents of France cannot own category 1 weapons, I own several. But the law is clear, ownership is only allowed for "target shooting competitions" and no one, even foreigners, can hunt with them.

I have been through French customs with firearms probably more times than the average person. I get asked the caliber of a weapon about 10% of the time. So, 90% of the time my weapon goes through uninspected. The ONC and foresters are not interested in getting involved in arms inspections, it's not their job. It is very conceivable that someone could come to France and hunt with a category 1 weapon and encounter no problem whatsoever. That doesn't make it legal.

My only intention is to spare your uncle, or anyone else coming to France to hunt, the inconvenience or hassle which could arise from "thinking" it is legal because no one: impounded their weapon at customs, impounded their ammunition at customs, inspected their weapon for caliber in the field. I suppose if someone knew he was in his right he would walk up to the customs booth at the airport and declare that he has a rifle chambered for a category 1 cartridge and then argue that because he isn't French he can bring the rifle and ammunition in, to go hunting. I still haven't found a single document that permits this.

ok you re right ...

in the past it was done and as we cannot check and as a french you cant too ...

belgiums hunters came to france for hunt and they came with their 30-06 for battue ... in france armes de guerre is based on style and calibers not in UE this the confusions ??? and again this is not importation (another confusion) but sport hunting ???!!!

did you try to check with customs and police ???

each time he came he was using the references and numbers i gave to you and it was legal the french consulate of quebec and Vancouver were giving him papers with that and not as sport shooter but as hunter ... ONF checked his rifle as the customs and police in CDG airport and each time the rifle and ammo were checked ... so that means that during ten years he was illegal or ???!!!! the UE law sated not A for this califer and the french laws stated something else ...

but again someone can check with customs office in Paris this is their job ...

as usual check with the country before to come ...

in the references i gave to you nothing is written on the rules you stated ...???!!!

anyway good hunt for everybody and good sport for all.

medved, at the risk of sending the other members of AR immediately to strong drink, I will pursue this as I think it is important. Today I will present Exhibit A, a couple of pages from the booklet I just received from the Fédération Nationale des Chasseurs.

Here is page one, which shows the relationship between the French weapons classifications and the European classifications. As you can see 1st Category in France is the equivalent to the EU classification A, armes de guerre.



Next is the page which shows the link between the caliber and the weapon classification:



The important sentence is in the second to last paragraph, "Une munition de 1ère Catégorie entraine systématiquement l'arme en 1ère Catégorie." In other words, if the weapon shoots 1st category ammo then the weapon is automatically also classified as 1st category. Even if it is a single shot break-open rifle, there are no exceptions.

I hope to find out more about any rulings creating exceptions for foreign hunters, if they exist.

PeteE, don't you see........that attitude, I'll let them ban SOME hunting as long as we have something, is the very reason europen hunting is so overridden with rules, restricted and privledged that it has really ceased to be hunting. The blaze orange hunters you make fun of and redicule have to obey the one blaze orange rule and they can go hunting almost anywhere. Yes, you ware ties, jackets, silly hats, shorts and knee socks and you make fun of us. Hell, we pity you. Short of the gamekeepers who shoot most of the game I don't see how anyone in EU ever gets a chance to gain any experience in hunting sense its the sport of kings, dukes, earls ect. ect. And that brings me back to the first point the EU hunters have become so used to being told what do to that you are ready to bow down to every idiot gun law that is passed. How is the sharp point knife ban coming in Britan ??? Talk about being laughed at by blaze orange hunters, at least we can be trusted to have a knife, unlike you. You all cannot even be trusted with sharp knives according to your goverment. And you laugh at us ??? When you get your own house in order, and you are trusted to have firearms in your home and on your person get back to us blaze orange hunters.

Hi Beachbum
I live in the UK and I agree with everthing you say.The trouble with the UK is that they blame an inanimate object instead of the real problem the person who misuse that object.It is easier to blame the law abiding then to blame the people who misuses these objects.So we all suffer and lose more and more of our freedom.

The UK have a lot of people who thing that the only way to hunt is the way we have it now and because the people who may want to hunt with bows and specialty pistols are a small group they are not willing to let them have this freedom.

I think it is wrong to say that if a person did want to hunt with a bow or a SP then he would not take the time to practise to become competent with his equipment.

Wink,

thanks for your searches and lot of work done.

seems again that the law or UE law is again not the same and not same application ....

but maybe the french custom contact i gave just on the top will tell you some other infos ...

or maybe a note to CDG customs and police as they let him get in without hassle nor trouble as some hunters from germany to spain and belgium to france ...

seems there is the law then the UE law then interpretation ... as usual of course ... anyway there is if i remember well a good case i mean state law cant be below UE laws ....

something to work for french hunters and their lobby

just my two cents ...

see you

ps ill post later when my uncle will come again to chamois hunt and report what s going on ...

see you

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

but maybe the french custom contact i gave just on the top will tell you some other infos ...

medved, I called the headquarters of French Customs with the number you provided. Their answer is, "No, you cannot hunt in France with a weapon chambered in a Category 1 cartridge. No exceptions for foreigners, whether from an EU country or any other."

So, every official agency I contact says exactly the same thing. There is no conflicting legislation on this, only misinformation provided by individuals who have entered France and hunted with Category 1 weapons without being stopped.

As I mentioned earlier, it is not impossible to enter the country and hunt with a Category 1 weapon because searches at the border are not exhaustive. It remains illegal however. The worst way to find out would be to enter the country, go hunting and through some sort of bad luck, accidently injure or kill someone. You would then find out just how that initial indifference at the border becomes a legal nightmare because automatically you will also be charged with the illegal importation not of firearms, but of controlled war matériel. In a post 9/11 world, I cannot understand why anybody would want to take that risk.

hello Wink,

seems now clearer ...

i ll give infos to my uncle and thanks for the time taken ...

he was lucky but i think he ll never try again

see you

Thank you Wink for getting the right information for us, it is much appreciated.
Regards
Stan