Hi all,

Just looking at some options here as I'm on the cusp of getting a 220 Swift done on a Stiller action. However one of our members mentioned to me that perhaps a 243 shooting the 58grain V-max would be a better option as an overal versatile rifle.

I'm after a fast flat fox shooting round and the likelyhood is that I don't need it for deer etc. I was thinking that the 200swift with a 50grain BT going at 3800+fps is gonna be quite a tool in that respect. however any of the other 22CF's are open to suggestion as I don't know anything about them, so all suggestions are welcome.

Rgds,
FB

Kiri

I have had a .22-250 which has been superb for crows and foxes and is more "bog standard" than a .220 Swift although I am sure the Swift is outstanding also.

However this is an interesting point you raise as I was just considering getting a .243 again.

Fctually the .243 will outshoot any of the .22-250 and maybe the Swift too - in practical terms this I suppose doesn't make much difference. The reason the .243 was going to become a feature in my cabinet again was the versatility of the cartridge.

I will get one in time it is just a matter of time but if I had my time again and if I was in your position and considering the criteria you have spelled out above I would go .243 for definite.

Just my opinion but based on direct experience.

I was the afore mentioned member.

A 22-250 shoots a 60gr soft point at 3,600fps, a 243 a 70gr (same SD) at 3,500fps. With moderator the recoil would be nigh on identical.

All problems about mixed deer/fox etc go away as do any temptation for illegality.

Kiri,

you have a 308 win rifle right, and perhaps a 260 Rem on the way, I am unsure about that.

I think that you are entiteled to roe/muntjac/fox rifle, the 220 Swift is a great round and there are Barnes TSX bullets to load as well for roe and muntjac.

Getting a 243 Win would not be bad and there you have a choice between 62 grains partitions, and V-max bullets or other varmint bullet of choice as well as TSX or TBBC.

However I belive if you compromise you will only end up dissapointed.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Husqvarna M98:
Kiri,

I think that you are entiteled to roe/muntjac/fox rifle, the 220 Swift is a great round and there are Barnes TSX bullets to load as well for roe and muntjac.

Kiris ground has literaly no roe or muntjac so if he gets out for a fox and sees fallow (it would be hard not to see a fallow in his part of the world!) he is going to be tempted to do something illegal if he has a 22 in his hands.

Also no 22CF is legal for roe in England - muntjac and CWD only.

If he wanted a quieter gentler 22 such as a hornet or a 222rem then I would agree with you but as it is I think 243 (or 6mm rem) is the logical choice.

I had some Roe until PeteE scared them all away, but can't shoot them with the 22 anyway...

Oneshot Whitely just sent me a mail has said the same as you 1894:

quote:

Hornady show 3800 fps for the 58g V-Max .243 - 3800 fps for the 55g 220
Swift - & 3700 fps for the 55g .22-250. Now you know why the 220 doesn't
make sense!

Might be easier to just swap the 243 over, as I don't see the point in having two of them really.

Rgds,
FB

Agreed. Add in a reasonably expansive deer bullet eg 85gr BTHP sierra at 3,300fps and you have a combo that can fell a fallow deer (probabaly no exit on a shoulder shot but dead never the less) and expand on a fox with no need to worry about broadside.

The sound of one of those hitting a fox going away is impressive - no need for a neck shot on that presentation with that outfit If you are worried about ricochets etc on long flat shooting then a v max is where it's at - not a pretty sight at the other end generaly.

Regarding swapping - don't give up bargaining power unecessarily. There is no reason why a sane individual shouldn't have a 243 set up for deer and one set up for predominantly fox use. Later on a 22 CF allows the legal shooting of crows and rabbits etc (actualy this IS one reason why a 22 CF might be needed as that condition is not I think available over 22)

the 220swift is popular in the south of Ireland, but so is the 22.250, the swift is VERY loud and eats barrels.I Think the 243 would be a better tool as you have a larger choice of heads and 1 round could do both foxs and deer.If the useless excuse of a police force here in N.Ireland would allow me to have a 243 for deer and foxs thats what I would have!
But having said that, if it is just for foxs whats wrong with a 222 or 223? i've loaded my 222 with 22.5gr of reloader 7 with a 40gr Vmax and was doing 3690fps

I'm not restricted with the same considerations as you poor fellows have to give to your Firearms Licensing Authorities so I've got one of everything and sort'em out according to the following:

Roe Deer, Muntjac, Chinkies, ect. anything legal will bash 'em. .222, .223. 220 Swift, .22-250 Remington, Wildcats in all their variations. All great, super accurate, low recoiling cartridges, fun to shoot, great to reload, light triggers, high power scopes, heavy barrels, tripods, Cans (Moderators), target grade synthetic stocks, you name it.....same goes for Badgers, Foxes, Rabbits, Hares, Ravens, Squirrels, Mink and anything else in the same class. If you want a Laser Light Boomer - go for it, I love 'em, too.

but - the same load from the same Ilk will vaporize a Rabbit, Fox or Crow at 300 meters will hemorrage a Roe, Muntjac, or Chinky at point blank range and well beyond and not deliver the correct "Telling" (read: deadly shot) at larger game if it's offered on the Menu.

The .243 Win. or similar offers so much more versitility with a much wider range of "heads" (as you call them - bullets, for us normal folk) that will suffice for all manner of game would tbe the suitable choice IMO.

Then, don't make the mistake of tricking the rifle out - just get a normal, regular weight, vanilla-flaovored hunting rifle, delevop a load with a couple of bullet (Head) weights and go shoot it at game. It'll work every time.

Aaron, at one point I had a trial batch of 222 loaded with nearly 24gr of RL7 and a 40gr BT. Pretty impressive with no signs of pressure. Couldn't get good accuracy.

Don't try this at home folks...

Then, don't make the mistake of tricking the rifle out - just get a normal, regular weight, vanilla-flaovored hunting rifle, delevop a load with a couple of bullet (Head) weights and go shoot it at game. It'll work every time.

Gerry

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't agree more.

Brian,I think you're pushing them too hard. if you back off a bit on the powder you should get tighter groups. the most accurate load I have is 23.5gr of VIt N133 and 50gr Vmax. it's not that fast (about 3121fps) but it shoots sub 1/2" groups/

Aaron, I have pretty much worked that out. My best results have been with 21gr RL7 and 50gr Sierra BK or V-max's. Fairly conservative load which kills foxes with great authority.

If the buggers would license a 243 for foxes, I would have one too.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon2:
Then, don't make the mistake of tricking the rifle out - just get a normal, regular weight, vanilla-flaovored hunting rifle, delevop a load with a couple of bullet (Head) weights and go shoot it at game. It'll work every time.

Gerry


I think you have hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't agree more.

+1!
But I don't think thats what FB has in mind!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:

quote:

Originally posted by Jon2:
Then, don't make the mistake of tricking the rifle out - just get a normal, regular weight, vanilla-flaovored hunting rifle, delevop a load with a couple of bullet (Head) weights and go shoot it at game. It'll work every time.

Gerry


I think you have hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't agree more.

+1!
But I don't think thats what FB has in mind!!!!

Nope, not really what i have in mind. What's happening is that I have an opportunity to get a rifle made with a friend at a very reasonable price. In fact the price of the custom will be about the same as an out of the box Sako here in the UK. As such I'm looking at a lot more gun for my money, (although I'll have some shipping costs but that is going to be split in half so not too painful).

The 243 looks to be the way I'm going. I briefly looked at Quick load yesterday to get a starting point but got side tracked.

Once the 260Rem arrives I'll get an idea of how it handles/shoots and use that as a starting point. My mate is bbuilding a 308 Win at the same time so you lot will be in for a lot of questions!!

Rgds,
Fb

Kiri,

Have fun putting your new .243 Boomer together!

Brian,

I actually didn't think those Ultra Light, new-fangled, plastic-tipped, itty-bitty bullets from Nosler or Hornady (haven't tried the Sierra's yet) would work as well as they do in the .222 until I tried them - VERY impressive perfomance in the .222 Remington and even more so outa the .223 Remington.

Try:

.222 Remington
Remington Nickel Plated Brass
Hornady 40 gr. V-Max
CCI 450 Magnum Small Rifle Primer
21.5 grs. of VV N130
O.A.L. 2.18"
Beta Chrony - 3486 fps out my Keppeler Heavy Barrel Target Rifle.

Puts five rounds into what will apear to be one .308" bullet hole! So much for the accuracy - you'll have to look hard to find bits & pieces of Rabbit, sorta looks like someone just shot a can of Fur Clad Red Spray Paint at Ground Zero. Foxes disapppear from your Field of View so fast you'll have wondered if they were actualy there in the first place! Gives the .222 Remington a whole new Lease on Life.

Hi Kiri
Can you tell us how you image the rest of the rifle looking like? Is it going to be a specialised night-shooting rig?

In that case there is little point looking for versatility.

Both calibers will do the business, though I would prefer a 25" bullxgreyhound thanks!

Hey Bog,

I'm thinking of something quite lightweight again, similar specs tot he 260Rem, aalthough I might go slightly longer on the barrel if it helps velocity enough. With a short barrel I don't see the point in a heavy profile as you don;t have the length that you need to couteract the whippyness. Either way it will be full stainless with laminate stock,(assuming I like this one), but it will be a rather LIVELY colour... I'm thinking something purple.

Rgds,
FB

yuk

Gerry,wish you'd had that 222 for the fox at Baldock,no question about the critter.Kiri,practically dont think you can tell the difference except at really long range or fierce winds-Baldock again- where the 6mm wins.if you can get a really good deal&want to play with a CF22 get a Swift or 22-250.blow any good match 52 gr out @3800&have a real ray gun for anything legal in UK.might look at Nosler Partitions or Trophy Bonded in .224.Thanks again for Baldock.BEST,kim

Hey Fallowbuck, thot I'd give you a view of a "Zebra" laminate, from Fajen. It's personal taste, I'm actually quite conservative with nice wood stocks, but I do like this one.

To muddy the waters for you, it's a Sako AII in 22-250. Doesn't get much use, but when I'm pretty sure all I'll shoot is fox, I take my 'fox medicine', Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Kirri
stop messing about get yourself a 243 ackley improoved 68 or 75 gr bullet proper fox medicain,also so godd for longgggggg range,mine prints 2 inch at 500 yards

Hi Fallow Buck. I use a 204 for fox and its a great round very fast, very light and knocks them flat. However before that I used a .243 with 55gn winchester rounds and found it be devastating combination. Its just a great all round calibre in my view.

Kim,

You're right - I don't believe I missed that Fox at that range; he even turned to us when you loaded your rifle - WTF - Over!

The Swift rules! The original Death Ray.....

Gerry,didnt you grass that CWD with Neils Swift?No problems,right?BEST,kim

I owned a Remington 700 Classic in .220 Swift back in the early 1990's. It was a standard weight rifle with the trigger adjusted.

There is something unique and special about the Swift that the .243W just doesn't have. I guess part of it is that everyone has a .243W. Both will do a good job on small pests.

I always regret trading off the Swift.....really regret it. I'm sorry, I have to go now and cry quietly to myself in the shed with a bottle of rum...

Kim,

It was using Neils Swifton the range that got me to thinking about this. A VERY nice bit of kit. However if I had access to CWD, Munties then I would perhaps be more inclined to go for the 22CF, but as 1894 says all I have is a large number of Fallow... It's a tough life!!

Gerry, we need to see a photo pf that CWD. If you want mail me the pics and I'll post them. If you did use Neils 220Swift, did it make much mess?


Rgds,
FB

Kiri,my first CF was a 220S 54yrs ago,sold it,eventually built a custom 22-250(pictured in Gun Digest 1974)now back to a Rem40X 220.i have a warm fuzzy feeling for the Swift&was going to bring to Baldock.the Swift is almost cult status now&Neil reinforced years of memories of exploding crows+neck shots on whitetail deer.243 is more practical but which of us are really.loads of fun thinking up a new gun anyways.good luck with the new project-eventually youll have a Swift!not much damage on GerrysCWD as i remember but i dont remember much.BEST,kim

What is the Swift's parent case? Or is it a one off?

CD,parent case is the 6mm Lee Navy,semi rimmed fits .473 bolt face.220S Winchester cases are now about$35/100 in US.BEST,kim

Guys,

I did use Niel's .220 Swift on the Chinky, in the area we were in he asked that I use his "Canned" Boomer due to the report.

At the shot the Deer took off like a Greyhound, direct for the Wood. I actually thought I had missed (don't know why, since the Chinky appeared to be @ the size of an Eland Bull at 220+ meters with Neil's NightForce cranked up to 24X) but the "Hair Halo" at the shot & Ground Zero indicated a solid hit.

How a Chinky went 75 meters after taking that kind of punishment "Is a Puzzlement to Me". Hit it on the point of the shoulder, the Nosler 40 gr. BT (light bullet) then took a downwards turn and took out he bottom half of the heart and had an exit wound under the heart and between both fron legs large enought to put a Soup Bowl in - amazing. Also he was all four quarts low when recovered. Not exactly my idea of a pretty piture but it put the Deer down.

In my Youth & Years of using 22 CF's on Roe Deer, I came to two conclusions. If you are going to use a 22CF on Small Deer use the right bullet, back then we had the a 55. gr. Sierra Game King HPBT, a 60 gr. Speer RN or an RWS 74 gr. Cone Point; at our disposal, today there's a better selection of Premium Botique Bulelts for such. Net, the bullet does the killing, not the cartridge. Anyway after all the consternation over a coupla hunting decades moved up a ratchet to the .243 Win. for Small Deer and that's about right where I feel comfortable - opinions vary.

guys,
Do you what to leave a murder scene or what.
dead is dead .

Take pritty pictures



All taken with (boring stuff) 70 grn SGK behind 27.4 Grains of N133.

Oh , Calibre.

6PPC . the ULTIMATE calibre

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:

Just don't ever say I said a word about anything in case it gets out!

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:

Just don't ever say I said a word about anything in case it gets out!

Actually I was going to get it inscribe that the concept and design was by your good self!!

Rgds,
FB