Apologies in advance if this is boderline OT!

I just got a call from the cops that my variation request for a .22LR, .17HMR and .223 is fine and I should get my FC back next week. All in all that is great and a very quick turnaround time for the Met police of 2 weeks.

BUT apparently there is an ACPO decision that .17HMR cannot be used on foxes so that condition will not be on my FC. This sounds a bit odd to me as the .17 looks like a great closer range foxing gun. Is this information correct?

Do others have the .17 down as a fox gun (would love to know which force issued your FC if you do).

Thanks in advance.

Gabriel

P.S. Please can we not have this as a discussion on the suitability or ethics of shooting foxes with rimfires!

Bog, certainly in NI there is no issue with the HMR for foxes. The police here will license it for "Vermin Control", it is left open after that, and up to the user.

Suitablility is another lemon, but it will certainly get the job done at reasonable ranges.

There is a certain amount of legal vagueness about what exactly vermin is.
Probably best left that way too.
I think, if the issue were pushed, the situation might be clarified but only in the direction of more restrictive conditions.
If one of the driving aims of APCO is to reduce the number of firearms in circulation then restricting the number of target species each can be used for will have the opposite effect to that intended.

Could be worse you could have Obama bin ladin.

Take enough gun!!

If all the gamekeepers that had shot fox with .22Lr were to be brought back to the land of the living & asked for their views on this, I dread to think of the volume of sound from them, so the .17HMR could not be found wanting, could it?

Ticket came back with just the word 'vermin' for all three calibers, so we'll see how I interpret that at 1am.

Interestingly, the three new calibers are on my ticket as a 'closed ticket' while my 3 deer calibers are 'open' which is bizzare...here goes for Boghossian vs. Met police Round III.

I don't know if it helps but I was talking to my local FLO "off the record" We were discussing how stupid it was that if I was out deerstalking with my.270 and saw a fox I couldn't shoot it but with the .243 I could.

He said that as restrictions on what each rifle could be used for were Chief Constable's conditions they were not strictly the law. He wondered who would be able to witness such an event and said that because it was technically breach of the law, the CPS were very unlikely to persue a case, even if witnesses could be found.

What he didn't say is how hard it would be to renew the FAC next time round!

Sewin basher,

ACPO guidelines now state that any calibre issued for use on deer is inherrantly practical for use on fox as a secondary target of opportunity. so although you may not go out specifically to hunt fox with it, I believe you are legally entitled to shoot one if you see it while stalking. In my mind that just means you can't goo lamping with it.

As for the .17HMR on fox, it wouldn't be my choice if I owned a .22 centerfire.
Rgds,
FB

[QUOTE] I don't know if it helps but I was talking to my local FLO "off the record" We were discussing how stupid it was that if I was out deerstalking with my.270 and saw a fox I couldn't shoot it but with the .243 I could.
[/QUOT
my mate had Sika on his fathers farm, and a few years ago when the dickhead (sorry I mean Police service of N.Ireland sargent) came out to look at the ground, he passed it for a 308 to shoot the deer but turned down a .222 for fox control and the told him " off the record" just use the 308 for the fox!!!

Kiri, have my 7mm down for fox, cannot see why the police would go to the length of writing in "you can use a stalking rifle for fox if the oppurtunity arises but you cannot use it at night", surely a fox is a fox is a fox at anytime??

They wouldn't let me have it for crows though!!!

Same old story!, The Plod seems to treat English law how they wish, As if their particular county was their own feifdom, Why should one person in Cheshire have zero difficulty using say a .223 for geese, & his buddy in the next door county be told "OOOH!, there will be now't to pick up!", the lot should be sorted out & everyone dealing with firearms licence issues should have at least the training they expect us to have undergone!

But a 22wmr is a much better choice for killing a fox where a cf is not practicable. ( Unless you live in a vacuum.)

Nightwalker,

This was not written on the conditions, but rather implied through the existing condition for deer. Upshot is that they wanted to say they would not prosecute on the basis that someone shot a fox while out deer stalking, but if you go out lamping with a 375, they might have something to say about it!!

Even still though my plod maintains I'm not allowed to shoot foxes with my 308...

FB