Hi All,

I'm just looking for opinions on this subject that we are all hearing about here in the UK. How do you all think it will effect various forms of game shooting here?

Firstly I want to say that I am generally the last person to be swayed by the media, but this has me worried.

I run a small syndicate in Sussex and we put down a total of 1200 birds, duck and pheasant. I'm seriously concerned about the effects this would have on us bothe from the safety of wild game for consumption and also on a moral level. I don't want to have to kill a heap of birds foa no reason, but also don't want to be a contributing factor to the potential spread of this bug.

I've decided to include my concerns to the guns pre shoot talk and will increase the number of ducks we look to shoot in the first couple of days. As for the pheasants, I'm going to wait until we get some more news before I make a decision on specifically reducing the densities.

Have any other syndicates taken any measures or had any thoughts?

Speaking to freinds in Cyprus , some a considering not going shooting as they don't want to come into contact with the bird flu virus. A lot of the sport there is from duick and woodcock that are migrating birds.

In other areas like Turkey and Rumania hunters ave already culled huge numbers of migrating birds.

Like I say, I don't mean to fuel the fire but I do think this could be another major problem for the countryside.


Regards,
FB

I've heard rumors from my hunting buddies in France that many types of bird shooting, including shooting of reared birds and migratory birds might be shut down this season. This has me worried since I've a day of driven pheasant booked...

FB,

If its going to happen, its going to happen; There's really not much we can do about it..Look at the trouble they had preventing the spread of F&M..trying to contain a virus transmitted by wild birds must be virtually impossible.

I don't really see the point in banning any of the shooting sports unless there is an outbreak in a particular area, then the Government will probably order the destruction of all domestic birds and poultry within a certain radius and a enforce a movement ban over grater distance.

Remember this virus has been round several years now, and if I were going to get a foothold in the human population, I would have expected to have done so already in SE Asia and China...they live in far closer proximity to their flocks than we do...

Still, you might want to invest in some NBC suits for your beaters and pickers-up!

Regards,

Pete

I have been deliberately holding off on the ducks and geese, but am getting weaker and weaker in my resolve to do so. The trouble is that the bloody media is so into driving the news just now instead of being news driven, you never know what is fact and what is fiction. This is the BASC view as of my last check, two minutes ago.
BASC link

Hot barrels

John

The Swedish National Hunters' Association has a link on their home-page where a doctor describes the flue and the present situation and says that we can hunt and eat birds just as usual for the time being.

Regards,
Martin

As far as I am currently informed the migrating pattern of the birds head away from most of europe and down to east africa as the winter has arrived now.
If the flu H5N1 survives the next 6 months or so in east africa and hits the poultry farms there, then we in northern europe can probably expect to have some vector birds arriving with the spring when african farmers cannot buy the extremely expencive medicines needed for the birds. It is also unlikely that expencive laboratory examinations is carried out with deceased birds in these countries. Thus the infected birds might not be slaughtered as it is done in europe now.
Many birds that nest in europe migrates to africa during the winter, and returns in the spring time. Lets all hope that the virus does not mutate to be transmitted from human to human and thus reach pandemic propotions.

Sincerely
Daniel

Hi alls,

I discussed this point on Nitrox's forum.

IMHO there is no reason to be scared.

JB' opinion

I agree with everybody on this thread.

Just one point : I enjoy all what Pete is posting, anyhow I think our wise Pete is naive when he says :

quote:

then the Government will probably order the destruction of all domestic birds and poultry within a certain radius and a enforce a movement ban over greater distance.

Only the Brits and the Dutchmen have the guts to do so.

For the moment, we have to hunt as we usually do. Perhaps we have to shoot a little more for should the birds die, we'll have to wait a few before the wingshooting comes back to the actual level.
In France, no free ranging or outdoors poultry is allowed.
Concerning hunting, the use of "appelants"(callers) is forbiden. An "appelant" is a captured or raised wild bird used to call its wild congeners. Pratically, we French will shoot a bit more than the reason permits. Moreover, we are asked to survey and declare any wild bird either weirdly acting or abnormally dead.

Pete, don't change anything, I like You.

By next rearing season the UK will almost certainly have a ban on the import of continental/french gamebirds including eggs.
Any sensible shoot will be catching up and preserving its own henbirds after Christmas in an attempt to avert the huge shortfall an import ban will cause.
I would guess that the gamebird put and take industry will face some tough fences in 2006.
The avian flue threat will act as a catalyst in restructuring both pheasant and partridge farming.

Trans,

That's a very valid point. If you think that byt End of March the rearing season starts on the Game farms and hundreds of thousands of birds/eggs are brought in.

I suppose it is only a few months away and unlkely that this will blow over by then.

Rgds,
FB

If it breaks out watch out South East Asia. I have been working in these countries for years talk about living up close and personnel with some birds. Should wipe out a lot of countries over population problems. It is sad but modern travel is one of the greatest things we have ever accomplished and will be are down fall. One good nasty disease that spreads easily and has a 7 day incubation period highly fatal and we are talking some body bags people. If it isnt avian flu it will be something in a few decades.

Thats the price of life boy you have to die.
Just put off making payments until the last minute.

The Government is now introducing emergency legislation to allow them to force poultry farmers to move their flocks indoors if so required.

They alternative wasn't mentioned, but I am guessing that any operation that can't do that when so ordered will have to destroy their birds??

Although aimed at the poultry trade, I wonder where shoots who rear pheasants ect will fit in?

One bit of good news is that the UK apparently had a trial of its proceedures for dealing with avian flu in birds when we had an outbreak of Newcastles Disease several months back. It seems that what ever was done contained the outbreak, although the news report did not go into any useful detail...Just how you contain a virus in a wild bird population is anyones guess?

Regards,

Pete

jbderunz has the situation nailed pretty well. I say as much in that I am currently developing a vaccine for chickens and ducks against the H5N1 virus, and initial results are very, very positive. I am co-authoring a paper to be published in a scientific journal sometime in the next 3-4 months.

My only point of contention, and granted I have to admit to having a personal interest in seeing a vaccine succeed, is that we should not simply dismiss the threat based on the low rate of human fatality for the last 3-4 years, and sit idly by and wait for the bug to reassort in a human already infected with another strain to produce something that is capable of inducing a pandemic. Why take the risk of waiting for this to happen when we can substantially diminish that risk? I can tell you for a fact that a vaccine which will not only prevent mortality in ducks and chickens, but will substantially reduce virus shedding in exposed birds, is possible. That means less possibility for a human in close contact with poultry to serve as the mixing vessel which produces that potential pandemic virus. There is only one thing that stands in the way - government regulatory authorities. Getting approval to commercialize a vaccine for poultry vaccination from not just foreign governments, but our own, is a nightmare. The political issues surrounding avian influenza are mind-boggling if for no other reason than international trade restrictions that are placed on poultry producers who have antibody positive flocks, and as vaccines make a flock antibody positive........There exists a very long history of governments not wanting vaccination and requiring depopulation. It has happened in the US, Canada, SE Asia, virtually everywhere in the world and don't kid yourself, it is a part and parcel of any effort to control spread, and it is a valid and important part of any effort to control spread. To say that governments don't have the cahunas to require same is not true. They do, and they frequently have.

As for the effects of this thing on waterfowling and pheasant hunting, it is very simple. Don't eat raw waterfowl, pheasants or chickens. End of story. And even if you did, your chances of contracting avian influenza would be far less than your chances of contracting a nasty case of Salmonella (ubiqitous in birds) or being killed in a car accident on your way to work. Relative risk folks. Go bird hunting, and enjoy a well cooked meal afterwards without concern.

jhrod,

I won't dismiss the threat, I refuse to fuel to on going dramatic art played by the govs and the media.

Vaccination of birds is a really efficient to contain the bird flu, therefore the human risk.
I agree (and complain) with You, most of the govs aren't ready to authorize vaccination. As You say there no easy mean to tell a sick bird's carcass from vacinnated bird's.
Honnestly I don't think the govs will permit to vaccinate the poultry.
For 1990, the common swine fever is hitting the wild boar here. The vaccination has been permitted only last year..........just because the Luxemburgers and Germans vaccinated the wild hogs a couple of years before.

I wish You good luck,

jhrod,

If your vaccine works, it will be interesting to see the various Governments reactions to it. In the last F&M outbreak, the British Government were loath to vacinate partly as a result of the EU politics of the situation. Seeing as their handling of F&M was pretty much a fiasco, they may well consider using vaccines in the futures and to heck with the EU...

Even if domestic birds and poultry are vacinated in the US and Europe, that won't stop the disease in wild birds? Also what about the poorer areas like parts of Asia, Africa and China...The likelyhood of them vaccinating all their poulty seems small?

Regards,

Pete

jbderunz-I agree there is too much hype out there. Hope I didn't come off as being one of those guilty of same.

Pete-Interestingly enough, what seems to be happening is that governments in Europe are considering doing what the US is in the process of, namely, creating "vaccine banks". The government would buy say, 50 million doses, and hold it in case of an emergency. If H5N1 arrives and starts killing birds, they send out the vaccine. IF not, they don't. This is a pretty big change in position from previous, which was simply no vaccination and kill any flock found antibody positive.

In Asia, there hasn't seemed to be as much interest in a vaccine bank type of situation, probably because they don't have the money to do so. I do know there are some very influential people that are telling them that vaccination has a role in a control program. Will they vaccinate all their poultry? I doubt it. Not only because of the cost, but because poultry rearing is very different there. Here in the US, large numbers of birds are held together in large houses and most places have biosecurity measures in place to limit exposure to infection. In SE Asia we're talking backyard flocks that are running everywhere, intermingling with waterfowl and anything else. But even with all that, enough sales dollars are apparently envisioned to justify my superiors to keep cracking the whip.

And you're correct, that doesn't eliminate the problem in wild birds by any means. But avian influenza is also prone to recombination/reassorting. I could see people vaccinating for a year or two, by which time the virus within the wild bird reservoir has lost virulence or been replaced by a different strain.

Best,
Jeff