hallo everybody
i'm new on this forum , i'm in NW of Italy and i'm planning to go hunting in the Alps mountains ; ( chamois , roe deer and wildboard most of all , maybe red deer too )
usually the shooting distance is between150 and 250 yards
(sometimes 300yds)
I 'm not able to handle the recoil of a 7mm rem mag , i can barely "dominate" a 30.06 , in a 3.3kg (6.9lbs) rifle
I must order (is a too long story why....) a CZ 550montecarlo , and I was thinking in 7x57 or 7x64 cal. . what are your suggestions ?
(any special suggestions for the calibers above keeping in mind that I reload all my cartridges and here in Italy we find basically only Vithavuory and Norma powders),
thank a lot to all
Albert

aber1911

I would go for the 7X64 Brenneke, a very versatile caliber, recoil is similar to 270 Winchester. A good 140-150 grain bullet should work.

Having access to ONLY Norma and Vithavuori powder can't be that bad

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Yeah, for mountain hunting the 7x64 rules - as good as the 7x57 is. If you are worried about the recoil (fair enough) buy a PAST recoil shield on-line, and use that when you shoot the gun on the range. Once you get used to it, you won't feel a thing in the field.

N160 is good place to start for 7x64 loads, it works well with a number of bullet weights. If you are looking for one, versatile load for everything, a 160 grs spitzer bullet is a good starting point. You don't give up much at long range to the lighter bullets, and you'll have the authority to address reds and pigs.

- mike

7x64 is a wonderful calibre. I use 160 to 175 grs bullets in mine with great results

Aleko

If you are not likeing the recoil of the .30-06, than I would definitely get a 7x57 and not even consider the 7x64. The 7x64 is more powerful, but it does have noticeably more recoil. A good shot with a less powerful round is far better than a poor shot with more power round. A

Albert.

I tested and fired an old 7 x 57 a few years back - the recoil was very soft and shooting that old english stalking rifle a really pleasant experience.

There and then, it became a calibre I have a lot of respect for.

Rgds Ian

Albert,

I have never fired a 7X64 so I can offer no opinion on that. I did however just recently have to clean up and put a sight on an old BSA 7X57. It was very user friendly with minimum recoil, I thoroughly enjoyed my time with it.

John

Have used both and the 7x64 has noticeably more recoil.
I would suggest getting a 7x57 and since you handload, you can always load faster than the anemic factory ammo. I am sure once you are familiar with your weapon, shots up to 300 yds will be doable.
Gabriel

Albert: I would recommend the 7x64 Brenneke. My experience with this cartridge is limited, but I once shot a springbuck in RSA with a CZ 550 in this caliber and its worked great on that type of animal...recoil should not be an issue with this rifle...as JOHAN indicated, the rifle and the cartridge reminded me of a Winchester M70 in .270Win, although some have said that it is closer to a .280 Rem. If recoil is still an issue, you should be able to down load bullets (using lighter bullets/less powder) that results in recoil that you can tolerate. The 7x64 seems like an extremely versatile cartridge.

As Paul H on the Alaska Forum says, you can make a big cartridge act like a smaller cartridge, but you can never make a smaller cartridge act like a bigger cartridge.

It does sound like a great problem to have to solve though (no matter what you decide you will be happy). Buy one of each and then go from there .

I would recommend the 7X64 for two reasons: 1) It is factory loaded by US munitions manufacturers (one of the few "European" cartridges loaded in the US) and that gives some good factory ammo options, and 2) you may want to hunt elsewhere in Europe (like France) where the 7X57 is considered a "military" caliber and requires special permits. As for the difference in recoil, a good recoil pad (Pachmayr Decelerator for instance) and 500 grams more rifle weight will make up for the difference.

Albert,
even if I want to buy a 7x57, I absolutely want to have one, I suggest to you a 7x64. More easy to find cartridge and components, more easy to find rifles, more easy to resell.
I have a Sabatti modified in the stock and it gives very good groups from 120grains bullets to 160grains bullets.

However I have to admit that I falled in love for a CZ 7x57 produced between 1950-60. And I want it.

(hallo Stefano , I agree with You ,i'm in Torino by the way)
Thanks a lot to everybody for the useful suggestions .
unfortunately I have to change caliber :-( ;
The point is that the gunshop (that owe me enough money to buy this rilfle :-( ) is giving me hard time about a 7x57 or 7x64 rifle that is not in stock and has to be ordered (it takes months ! :-( )
so i was thinking to go for a regular CZ 550 in 30.06cal. ( it is already in the shop and I want to close this "deal" soon
:-( ) and "get used tu the recoil" using maybe some "anti-recoil" pad
(beside the old classic06 is a very versatile cartridge :-) )
Any suggestions about a bullet for a long range shot , flatter trajectory ?
I heard that "ballistic tip" are good but make too much meat damage (with all the exception , of course)
thanks again to all

1. General Middle European Advice:
If you don't handload, do NOT choose the 7x64. You'll be better off with the 7x57 in most cases, as a European hunter. It's different in many parts of the USA or Africa though.

2. Specific Advice:
In your rathe special and untypical situation, the 7x64 may however be the preferable choice.

Carcano

Aber1911: you might talk to your gunshop about CZ 550s. I own a CZ 550 American in 7x57mm and I think the rifle and cartridge are a fantastic combination. My brother owns a CZ 550 Fullstock and that is in 7x57mm as well. It is a real gem. Mine shoots less than half minute of angle with 162 grain Hornady SSTs with H414 powder. I know that CZ-USA quit importing the 7x57mm into the United States, which I count as a huge mistake on the part of CZ. The CZ-UB site shows the CZ 550 in 7x57mm as still manufactured for the Euro-market, so this may be an option for you to investigate. Go with the 7x57mm. You will not be sorry. Tom Purdom

Albert: You can't go wrong with a .30-06. There are lots of bullets between 125 gr and 180gr to choose from if you reload your own bullets. The 125 and 150 grain bullets would be both fast, for longer shots, but not really too punishing when it comes to recoil.

One of my brothers shot an antelope (pronghorn) last August using a 150gr Nolser ballistic tip in a .270, and it was devestating. And it did not ruin too much meat. These are small animals (maybe 100 pounds (45Kg?) or less). You might consider one of the ballistic tip bullets. This .30-06 can be downloaded to reduce recoil.

Good luck .

Whilst a 30-06 is truly a do it all calibre it's not a 'go to' European mountain cartridge..... and cannot be used in France.

270winchester should be a standard cartridge that can be got from stock and would fulfill all your needs having less recoil (allthough not exactly 'sweet shooting') and being legal in France.

Aber1911,
Take a look also here:

Excuse me a too fasrt Carriage report
Annunci armi usate

quote:

;
Any suggestions about a bullet for a long range shot , flatter trajectory ?
I heard that "ballistic tip" are good but make too much meat damage (with all the exception , of course)
thanks again to all

Alberto,
I recentely bought a .30R in a Blaser K95 and I reloaded it with Barnes TSX 150gr. at about 930 m/s with a ballistics similar to my 270 win. and superb accuracy.


Last week-end I used it on tree roebuck in Slowenia with these results:


1)distance 160m - slope ca.15°downside- angle ca.45° - entry hole ca. 1cm trought ribs, stomach and upper heart; exit hole ca. 2,5cm trought ribs just behind the right shoulder. The buck made a classic jump and walked 10m inside a wood before die.



2)distance 100m - slope ca.30°downside- angle ca.30° - entry hole ca. 1cm trought ribs and heart; exit hole ca. 2,5cm trought ribs. No jump and a 40m. downslope run.



3)distance 70m - slope ca.15°upside- broadside - entry hole ca. 2cm trought ribs, the bullet touched lightley the spine, hit the scapula and exit trought a ca. 5cm hole trought ribs. I couldn't see the reaction because the blast (it was almost dark)but the buck die on the spot.

Last year I used 130gr .277 TSX in a Sako 270win with outstanding results on chamois, roedeer and red calves at distance between 30 and 360m.

This type of bullets don't lose petals and weight at short distance/fast velocity and expand reably at long distance without vaste meat.

Instead of normal X Barnes, copper fouling is a little %, pressure is lower and velocity highter.

I think that you could reload this bullet in 30.06 at about 890/900 m/s.

Zeroing at 200m the drop at 300m will be around 22cm.

Where do you hunt, CATO2?

In bocca al lupo!

g.j.

P.s.: If you are still interested in a 7x57, I could give you my custom Piscetta m98 mauser.

P.P.s: If you want I also have a Sabatti in 7x64. I won it in a hunters competition and I used it only once at the range (0,5 moa with 140gr ballistic tip)

After using my new K95 I don't see future for my other medium bore rifle

Welocme to the forums, Gamsjager.

In spite of my name, stalking gämse is my favourite!

Montero

and another try...

quote:

In spite of my name, stalking gämse is my favourite!
Montero

Weidmannsheil, Montero!

Very impressive trophy

Some details? Location, C.i.c. points?

g.j.

Waidmanns danke!

Shot at 200m with my 6,5x57R kipplauf.

110.96 CIC points.

In the Alps, but please allow me to keep the place secret

thanks again
i've already got the 30.06 , the main reason is because the 7x57 is disappearing and is difficult to find 7x57 ammo (in Italy) , reloading is still permitted ,for now, but with the new gun's law in progress ....who know
beside the 06 was already in the shop that owe mw money and order a CZ rifle in 7x57 takes +o- 2months
by the way , the 06 is still in the shop due to a problem with the scope mount

"when something start bad , end worst !"

thanks a lot indeed to all
all the best
Alberto

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
aber1911

I would go for the 7X64 Brenneke, a very versatile caliber, recoil is similar to 270 Winchester. A good 140-150 grain bullet should work.

Having access to ONLY Norma and Vithavuori powder can't be that bad

Cheers
/ JOHAN

I agree!

If you use a gun with at least 60cm barrel and if you reload there is no doubt the brenneke is your choice!

But if you have shorter barrels go with the 7x57.

Gamsjager,
Great photographs, tell me what breed of dog is that in your photograph.

Weidmannsheil.

oldun
The dog on Gamsjagers pictures is a REAL dog. Sort of like a jewel in a coal heap...

It's a schweisshund - a specialist used for wounded game. Looks like a Bayerischer Gebirgsschweisshund (Bavarian Mountain Hound) and almost like a twinn of mine.

Cheers
K9

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
Gamsjager,
Great photographs, tell me what breed of dog is that in your photograph.

Weidmannsheil.

Odun,
as said K9, she is a Bayerischer Gebirgsschweisshund (Bavarian Mountain Blood Hound).

Her name is Bela (white, in slowenien).

The day I made those photographs was her 10th birthday .

A good day for both: I shooted tree roebuck and she eated tree roe gut

Here same other pictures

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=301358&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Bela and his owner Stanko on the first buck

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=301352&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Bela eating the first gut (only exophagus. Heart, liver and kidneys are for veterinary ispection)

[IMG][url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=301349&c=500&z=1"] [/url][/IMG]

Bela near a salt dispenser



weidmannsheil

g.j.

Gamsjager,
Great photographs!
Thank you for sharing them with us.
Weidmannsheil.

Hi,

I'd recommend the 7X57, I use a Heym SR20 in this calibre with 123gr. cone point bullets. this combo has almost no recoil, shoots quite flat and is just lovely! I've used this on red, fallow, muntjac, roe and various plains game in Africa without problems.

Regards,
Eric