the brightness is based on the size of the exit pupil, so a 6x42 and 8x56 should appear equally bright (assuming same glass, etc, etc.). However, the 8x56 should present you with a better image in low light because more light can enter the objective lens before being stopped down to 7mm or less exit pupil. It would be hard to beat a zeiss 8x56 T* but actually an illuminated reticle will help alot in placing the shot so try the Swarovski 8x56. However, 1894mk2 is correct that being able to crank up the power in low light will enable you to see more detail - this is where the twilight factor in the scope/bins specs comes in. In this case, you could not beat a 2.5-15x56 Z6i.... sorry!

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
If you look at Swarvoski web site light transmission of z4 is higher than z6 for some reason

I spoke to Swarvoski and they think it is a misprint !"

I don't think so. The light transmission figure of glass will vary over the the whole spectrum. I think that I am correct that the figure quoted is (I think) the point on the spectrum where transmission is highest. Therefore, while the transmission figure quoted for the z4 may be higher, the HD glass of the z6 probably gives better transmission over a greater range of the spectrum and gives better colour balance as a result. The point is that its important not to focus on one single specification, but recognise that the end product is a compromise of many aspects to give the best overall package.
Here's an illustration

Guess what jalihunter

I have got 2 Sw scopes here
5-30x50
1.7-10x42 and
Z5 will arrive Monday

I will try them all for a few nights and decide for myself

No point quoting things from the Internet

Thanks

This is not stalking directory here

It is not a missprint - the Z4i has 2 optical elements less then the Z6 - so it has a greater light transmission as each elemnt costs light transmission - that was one of the reasons,. Swarovski put HD lenses into the hig magnifition Z6 scopes - and you could see that they are much more brilliant - just another aspect of "image quality" - so light transmission is just one aspect, comparable is the exit pupil if you want to make a decission within same optical quality, but there are more aspects in quality as well, such as HD lenses compared to non-HD- lenses...

so testing yourself is the best way!

I made my decission and now on my lightweight gun there is the Z6i 2,5-15x44 BT SR sitting on the mount now - waiting for the range...

Knowing myself I probably keep all three

That's part of the fun

I have the Z6i 1.7 - 10 x 42 and its awesome in low-light and quite light, well worth it for me, have made shots that long with it.

Just my 2 pence

I use a S&B 8X56 and shoot a lot in forestry at last light - usually up to about 45 minutes after sunset at which point my feeling is that it has got to the stage where I might not be able to find an animal that runs on. At this point I can usually still see well enough through the scope to accurately place a killing shot.

Legal shooting ends an hour after sunset so either way the scope works for at least as long as I'm willing or allowed to shoot and I can't ask for more than that.

I have compared the 8X56 Swaro side by side with my S&B and to my eyes there was no actual difference in low light performance in terms of the detail that could actually be seen. However, the sight picture of the swaro "felt" better and I suspect this was down to a wider field of view. The swaro is also a lot lighter to carry.

I have shot deer with the 8X56 from 20 yards to 220 yards and have never felt the need for more or less mag and I don't want messing around with a scope that has 176 different knobs and buttons in the dark.

quote:

Originally posted by Dugongberbulu:
I have the Z6i 1.7 - 10 x 42 and its awesome in low-light and quite light, well worth it for me, have made shots that long with it.

Just my 2 pence

I have been looking hard at one of these for my custom Dakota 76 in .338WM. ; this is the lightest of my six rifles so chambered and shoots "lights out" with 250NPs and damn near anything else I load to test.

These scopes are all very heavy for a BC light mountain rifle as much of our "stalking" takes place at much higher elevations than exist in the UK and the terrain is far harsher, plus, you are hunting in remote wilderness by horse and foot. but, the optics are superb and I have been drooling over one here for some months. Lotsa money, but, you do get what you pay for in hunting optics, IME.

@Caorach: Usualy when visibility ends the game is walking... Best results on pig hunting (allowed all time for pigs and foxes) I had always in nearly darkness: the city light´s reflection on the clouds is enough light for my Swarovski 3-12x50 to make a shot over bait (distance usualy 40-60m), but I also made a good placed shot on the meadows with 145m of distance in the middle of the night...
Come on, sit 2-3 hours longer and check what You could see then... - your eyes will start dealing with very low light as well (this effect needs about 1 hour! - but be aware from any light source as it will push you back on the very start of night adaption!)

Klaus

You make lots of valid points Klaus but unfortunately we can't legally shoot deer beyond and hour after sunset.

It is also the case that I shoot sika deer in forestry and they are known for running no matter how good the shot. With a heart/lung shot they will certainly not run less than 50 yards. I don't have a dog, nor access to one, and so find that once we get to about 45 minutes after sunset I'm no longer comfortable taking the shot. I can't fully explain this but suspect that at that stage I can no longer see the animal with the naked eye and so it can be difficult to determine in which direction it ran.

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
You make lots of valid points Klaus but unfortunately we can't legally shoot deer beyond and hour after sunset.

I totaly understood the legal aspect, but test your optics yourself and You may be wondering how long they work... I also don´t have a dog, but pig hunting is 99% night hunting...

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
You make lots of valid points Klaus but unfortunately we can't legally shoot deer beyond and hour after sunset.

It is also the case that I shoot sika deer in forestry and they are known for running no matter how good the shot. With a heart/lung shot they will certainly not run less than 50 yards. I don't have a dog, nor access to one, and so find that once we get to about 45 minutes after sunset I'm no longer comfortable taking the shot. I can't fully explain this but suspect that at that stage I can no longer see the animal with the naked eye and so it can be difficult to determine in which direction it ran.

Caorach

Perhaps you need to look at your calibre bullet weight/type or shot placement if your chest shot Sika are routinely running 50m+

I have shot and still shoot lots of Sika and will admit they can run great distances.

However most of the chest shot sika I shoot run less than 5 paces be it with the 243 (70gr), 25-06 (115gr) 308 (125gr) or 300wsm (150 or 168gr).

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Guess what jalihunter

I have got 2 Sw scopes here
5-30x50
1.7-10x42 and
Z5 will arrive Monday

I will try them all for a few nights and decide for myself

No point quoting things from the Internet

Thanks

This is not stalking directory here

Not sure what our point is. I enjoy my 2 Swarovskis - PFi 8x50 and Z6i 2-12x50 and I'm sure that they won't be the last. By the way, the light transmission figures for the PF is I think 3% higher than the Z6 too.
Good luck with your choice - some fine scopes there.

I just can't see how I can do more damage than I am DJM. I'm shooting a 150 grain Hornady Spire Point (Am slowly moving to Nosler Partitions just to give them a try but not because of any problems with the Hornadys) at 3000fps out of a 308.

Last season I shot a sika calf, it wasn't quite broadside on, more quartering, and the distance was probably 60 yards. Everything in the chest was destroyed and the bullet exited through the liver due to the angle. There was a significant track of dark blood indicating the direction of the bullet exit and this had been forced out a 2 - 3 inch exit hole. I lost all of the meat except the rear haunches and can only describe the destruction as "complete." There was a good blood trail and the calf ran about 70 yards.

I've chest shot deer from 20 to 220 yards with the Hornady load and the routine has always been the same - which is to say a 50 yard run.

A friend shot a sika calf with his 308 through the shoulder - it is a long story but the evidence appeared to indicate that one shoulder was destroyed but maybe not the other one and I don't know the exact extent of internal damage but the bullet exited so it was at least significant. I suspect the bullet was a ballistic tip of some type. The calf ran 150 yards.

The only way I can find to put them down on the spot is with a neck shot, which I've only tried on one occasion. However, I haven't used the partitions for a chest shot yet (I've only used one on a deer and that was my neck shot) so I don't know how they will perform.

Now, I'm not shooting a lot of deer in the year as that opportunity isn't available to me but last season I probably shot 6 or so and my experience is that a good red hind will go down much quicker than a sika calf given comparable internal damage. I know that you are shooting a lot of sika and that you must have it down to a fine art and I don't at all doubt that you are putting them down fast but certainly at present I am finding a 50 yard run about normal no matter how hard they are hit and the few others I know who are also shooting sika report exactly the same results with chest shot deer.

As ever all hints and tips are welcome!

Personally I would forget the Partions as I am sure your distance run will at least double.

Try loading some 125gr Nosler Ballistic tips but keep the velocity below 3000.

I have run them through the 300wsm at 3800 but only for park culling the down range results can only be described using the old Gulf War terminology of shock and awe.

I have a number of friends who also use 125gr in the 308 and find it to be very effective on sika.

I always try keep the shot forward tight up behind the shoulder and I am not too bothered if I take out one or both shoulders, the game dealer still pays the same price so why risk a runner.

However if I am shooting one for the pot I don’t chest shoot

Higher and slightly more forward than the classic heart shot tends to reduce distance run from my experience.

I think your self imposed time limit is very responsible. I do have a dog and really hate last light shooting if for some reason she is not with me. Tell the truth she is the single most important factor in increasing my cull.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Ok now that I have sorted out my daytime scope

Which one would you guys say is the brightest (subjective) fixed power scope

Make and model please ?

The PF 8x50 is hard to beat as a fixed scope.

I think that unless you are very lucky your idea of using a high-magnification target scope to develop loads for a hunting rifle and they taking it off for a more moderate scope such as a 3-10x42 etc will not produce the results you hope.

It's been my experience that wjen shooting from a bench with a rest that anytime I change something weather it's a recoil pad, they type of rest, how I stabilize it will result in different results --- sometimes a big difference and sometimes a smaller one but always some kind of difference.

Velocity won't change but everything else you want from group size to point-of-impact will come into play and be at risk.

A 10x scope (3-10x42) should be able to readily provide enough magnification to show off 95% of a rifle's inherent accuracy at 100 meters.

And as an aside I'd rather have a rifle & scope combination that routinely shoot 5 shots into 1.5" at 100 yards and maintained a consistent Point-of-impact than one that could shoot 5 shots into 1/2" at 100 yards -- but had a point-of-impact that varied everytime I took it out.

What you must also factor is the quality of the low light. Shooting a buck at 11 pm mid summer in the woods on a clear evening is very different to mid winter hind stalking in the Scottish highlands. Combine low cloud, black peat hag, Heather and black looking hinds with misted up lens puts a real challenge on optics even at mid day.