I am not sure if this has been covered elsewhere and therefore apologise if it has.

I was crawling around a small piece of Cumbria at the weekend and had a Eurica moment. Why, I thought to myself, am I dragging a huge heavy rifle around when my only stalking is woodland and therefore at modest ranges.

I have always liked the look of full stocked rifles and decided in mid crawl that the heavy barrelled varminter was on its way out, to be replaced by an elegant stutzen. But and its a big but, I have always been told that they are definately less accurate

Is this true.

Grant

quote:

Originally posted by howa243:
...But and its a big but, I have always been told that they are definately less accurate

Is this true.

Grant

Grant, hope you are well. That certainly was the reputation stutzens had. I don't think it is true of modern stutzens, or at least not enough to matter for woodland ranges.

I know the Sauer Stutzens seem to be pretty good. My dealer had a really nice Mannlicher deluxe 243 a few months ago. I shot a test group with it which was more than good enough. If I had a slot for it, it would have been home with me

Hi Brian, good to hear from you. Hope your well too.

Started looking on Tuesday, found a Mannlicher and a couple of Rugers in .243, one of which is being sold by a very well know Scottish dealer. I called him and he said 1.5 moa would be the norm and whilst I am no target shooter I thought that was rather poor.

Grant

I have enjoyed several Mannlicher Schoenauer stutzens. All but a well-used Model 08 in 8x56 were very accurate. Now, I use a 30-06 (I think - 1950 model). I get 1 ragged hole at 100 yards.

Hi Grant,

Hope you are well.

Some of the older Manlichers are very nice but for a light weight gun have you looked at the old manlichers with the three quarter stocks?

I can't remember the model numbers but a mate has one in 308 and it is stunning and very light. No problem on the accuracy then with some minor work you can get it very accurate.

Rgds,
Kiri

Grant,

Hey Pal; you've seen the Light!

I consider the " Less than accurate Stutzen" theory a load of hogwash. All I've owned (4) have been absolute tackdrivers; since I won't own a rifle that doesn't deliver the Goods (= will shoot 3 shots into <1" @ 100 meters).

A L/H Steyr-Mannlicher .30/06 Sprg., a L/H Ruger Model 77 .30/06 Sprg., a Mannlicher stocked Ruger #1 in .270 Winchester, a Blaser K95 in 7x57R.

The two .30/06's are no longer with me; not that I didn't enjoy them but several Buyers pestered me endlessly to Sell them and after the price got Right - well; they have a new home. Not only their looks but their accuracy was THE factor in the sale.

Gerry
Hope you are well
Can you ask your blaser dealer in Germany if I have a k95 can I fit a stutzen barrel and fore end to it ?

Thanks

Have asked dealers here but they haven't got a clue

Some years ago I had a Sako stuzen in 308 it was an half inch shooter with hand loads.
The new Sako Bavarian stutzens look to very good and are worth considering if you are wanting such a rifle.

quote:

I have a k95 can I fit a stutzen barrel and fore end to it ?

Benjamin,

I'm well, hope all's fine with you too.

I spoke to Georg last week at the Wiesbaden range. He asked me to convey his Regards.

Yes, any K95 barrel will fit a K95 action/receiver.

It's the ancilliary Bits & Pieces that you have to hang on them that are expensive.

1. Stutzen barrels are 19.6" (50cm).
2. Cartridge selection for Stutzens is reduced, basically no Magnums or Heavy Hitters.
3. Octagon barrel.
3. Begin at Luxus Grade upwards; so the required bits of wood to accomodate are that much more expensive.
4. The Stutzen requires a special inletted (octagon) 2-piece full length forearm.

Gerry

If you come across a K95 243 stutzen in the father land second hand can you drop me a PM.

Especially in 243 it make so much sense ....

I shot a 6 x 62 feres a few months ago. It was very impressive virtually flat to 300 metres but getting ammo is a real pig.

I enjoyed Munich very much. It was a real pleasure shooting with those guys. Please send them my regards and I promise I will be back real soon.

quote:

but getting ammo is a real pig.

Yes, the 6x62 Freres is a real hot number and when you do find ammo for it, "Sticker Shock"

I will keep my eyes open for a K95 .243 Winchester barrel.

I saw all the Trap Shooters in "Training Stress" on their way to Munich for the German National Championship - our Club (WCW) did very well at Trap 1st, 3rd & 5th.

quote:

Originally posted by howa243:
But and its a big but, I have always been told that they are definately less accurate

Is this true.

Grant

No - stutzen comes from German and it means "cut off" - meaning like chopped - shortened...that goes for barrels shorter than 24" (usualy 22 or 20"). Stutzen came from mountains and there aint no short distance shots in mountains.

As those who know me know I am a BIG 243 fan but I wouldn't shoot a 19.6" 243 with double ear protection on the range. It's a loud cartridge and especially loud in short barrels!

It's not necessary to get a stutzen to get a lightweight rifle. The stutzens I have handled have actualy been surprisingly heavy (Heym, Sako).

A 22" sporter will be lot more comfortable than a varmint rifle for woodland stalking but you will notice how much harder it is to keep steady.

quote:

Originally posted by howa243:
But and its a big but, I have always been told that they are definately less accurate

Is this true.

Grant

no they are as good as the rest, just handle quite a bit better
MS were the finest bolt guns ever crafted by man, lock work were light years above the mauser 98

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
Stutzen came from mountains and there aint no short distance shots in mountains.

Exactly. A shorter barrel to reduce weight and a long wooden fore end to protect it from damage while climbing.

I have an early model M mauser in 8x57I. It was made in 1914( first year production). It shoots the old 14,7gram bullets into clusters at 100 meters. 3 shots often within a tiny inch.

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
Stutzen came from mountains and there aint no short distance shots in mountains.

Exactly. A shorter barrel to reduce weight and a long wooden fore end to protect it from damage while climbing.

Climbing the mountains is easier done with a shorter barrelled rifle.
Weight reduction was not the primary intention.

The amount of weight reduction is more or less equal to the additional wood in the longer forestock.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by howa243:
I am not sure if this has been covered elsewhere and therefore apologise if it has.

I was crawling around a small piece of Cumbria at the weekend and had a Eurica moment. Why, I thought to myself, am I dragging a huge heavy rifle around when my only stalking is woodland and therefore at modest ranges.

I have always liked the look of full stocked rifles and decided in mid crawl that the heavy barrelled varminter was on its way out, to be replaced by an elegant stutzen. But and its a big but, I have always been told that they are definately less accurate

Is this true.


Grant, Thought I'd pass this along. Merkel makes two very nice and extremely accurate stutzen rifles. The first is the single shot K-1, one of the lightest and most accurate single shots ever. The second gun is the KR-1 Stutzen, a bolt gun with an action similar to the Blaser. Again, an extremely accurate rifle, and very attractive. Check them out on Merkel website. Hope this helps, Mike

I understand exactly how you feel. I had the same EUREKA moment a few years ago, in fact 03 months after I started hunting when I said to myself there must be a better way to enjoy this sport. My rifle then was super accurate 14 pounder with a nightforce scope.

If I may intrude

Kreikoff,
Perrugini and Visini
Blasser
Merkel
Heym
and a few obsure make in Austria
(sorry no offense)

are all very similar in terms of handling or accurate department.

It really down to cost, exclusivity and snob value

I went for the Blaser K95 in the end just beacause it was a good deal then and one was available at very short notice in my choice of caliber

I have been in many cull situations and have not missed any opputunities becuase I was using a single shot action.

I must confess I have been laughed at by stalkers, Game keepers and fellow hunters saying I will regret my decision. I recall Alan Rhone told me that my rifle was the 13 ever imported to the UK ! ever including its predicessor the K77

Go for it

Make sure you choice of caliber is sensible though.

If you are going down the custom order route
please consider the straight comb option rather than drop coombe (hogs back) stock.

There really is no need for any engraving options.

Go for a walk with 03 cartridges in your hand and come back with your quarry and no chiropractor ...............HAHAHA

Bruce Potts borrwoed my rifle and wrote this article. Perhaps it will help you to decide.

I know they are nearly £5000 now but well worth the money. You will only ever buy one unless you start damaging barrels like me...
http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk...ot_rifle_review.html