Hello everybody. First post here, after reading for a year.

I've seen no mention of this on the forum. Yesterday a pro-hunting rally was held in Madrid, as a response to a recent law regarding the Natura 2000 network. The law includes an incredibly ambiguous lead ammunition ban (in "wet areas", whatever that means), reduces some hunting seasons, and gives government wide powers to ban hunting of any species or by any methods.

The march also turned into a protest against the Spanish governments (present and past) attitude to hunters, and against already existing laws, such as the one that classifies packs of hunting dogs as cattle for transport purposes.

The rally was a complete success, with at least 40,000 people attending (according to the government *), as well as hundreds of hunting dogs. Oh, and the animal rights organizations gathered a grand total of 8 activists for their counter-act.

The only news in English I could find is the horribly anti-hunting AP write-up. But, for a reference, here are a few images of the march:





(more here).

I hope this news is interesting to other European hunters.

* The organizers claim 500,000-700,000, but I find that number difficult to believe.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the update.

I've been predicting a move against lead in rifle ammunition for some time. At present the only realistic alternative is copper alloy in the form of Barnes and similar products.

I suspect that if copper was widely adopted, the anti's would then start stirring the pot with the various forestry company's pointing out the potential damage a lump of copper could do to the blades of harvesters and saw mills ect..

This proposed lead ban is a shrewd move by the anti's and one we must fight against..

Regards,

Pete

Thanks for the welcome.

The ban is already in effect, even though what's banned exactly is not clear. Just after the law was passed, a group of portuguese hunters in Spain were ticketed (is that correct?) because they had lead cartridges in their car, and they were in a protected region "where there might be wet areas". Two days later the agent's superiors decided that was not illegal and dropped the ticket.

Actually, that's a good example of the attitude we were protesting against.

Hi mcoca.
The lead ammo you are mentioning, is that shotgun shells?
If so, they have been banned for years in different countries for marshland shooting(ducks, gees, snipes and so forth).
To rally against that is fighting a loosing battle I´m afraid.

(In Norway all led shotgun ammo is banned, even upland hunting for grouse and ptarmigan.)

If this proposal include a led ban on rifle ammo, then it is quite another story.
I sertainly hope that the different hunting organisations within EU have the ability to cooperate against such a ban.
If not, then we are all facing a bleak future.

Anyway, good to see that you could muster such numbers in your rally

Excellent post!!!

Keep us informed please.........

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
Hi mcoca.
The lead ammo you are mentioning, is that shotgun shells?
If so, they have been banned for years in different countries for marshland shooting(ducks, gees, snipes and so forth).
To rally against that is fighting a loosing battle I´m afraid.

Lead shot has been banned in Spain in protected wetlands for a few years now. This was supposed to increase that ban to all the wetlands included in Natura 2000 (which I think accounts for nearly all of them). But the law's language makes no difference between rifle and shotgun ammo, and doesn't say specifically "wetlands", but "wet areas", which as far as know, is not defined anywhere.

quote:

(In Norway all led shotgun ammo is banned, even upland hunting for grouse and ptarmigan.)

Do you also hunt rabbits and hares with steel shot? No ricochet problems in rocky terrain?

quote:

If this proposal include a led ban on rifle ammo, then it is quite another story.
I sertainly hope that the different hunting organisations within EU have the ability to cooperate against such a ban.
If not, then we are all facing a bleak future.

It seems to me (100% personal opinion, not that of the hunters organizations in Spain) that the effect on rifle ammo was either a result of ignorance on the law's writers, or a trick to gradually increase the ban: first you ban lead bullets in wetlands, where they are rarely used, then you slowly increase the ban's territory. After a few years, we would be wondering where the lead bullets went.

quote:

Anyway, good to see that you could muster such numbers in your rally

Thanks!

mcoca
I have the impression that steel shot are used less and less for hunting, but se a lot of use on clay ranges.

The majority uses wismuth/bismuth shots, and that covers all kind of shotgun hunting.

I was in that mass meeting and the enviroment was excellent, only an small group of ecologists (8 people)appeared, to boicot the meeting, but no hunter looked at them. The meeting was a global protest of the Spanish hunters against the laws that continously reduces the capability to practise our passion. The problem with the lead ammunition and the law of biodiversity, is double, :

The law includes the restriction to any kind of ammunition (rifle and shotshells).

It lets the goverment to define almost any kind of land as "wetland" in the Natura 2000 net(around 40% of the Spanish territory), altough, because Spain is a dry Land, less than 0.5% of the territory is really wet land.

quote:

Originally posted by 6_5X57:
... altough, because Spain is a dry Land, less than 0.5% of the territory is really wet land.

This is a typical example how burocrats are never really influenced by reality, they rather live in their ideological clouds.

Congratulations to that impressive event! 70.000:8 is indeed a healthy relation.

No info on Newspapers here in Italy

We must all be very careful as in recent months especially there has been a significant amount of published research (And funding for this reasearch came from somewhere remember) looking at the effects on lead bullets on ground water, soil contimation etc. etc. There is not question that this is going to be the next battle ground for those of us who want to preserve our sport. I suspect it will not be long before we are hearing the green vermin announcing in their loud voices that shooting is contaminting drinking water and people are dropping dead all over the world as a result.

The press will, of course, be only too keen to latch onto this and here in the UK it may become the next struggle for us following the lost of hunting.

It is good to see sportsmen in Spain having a good day out and enjoying themselves and I think the 8 protestors just about sums up the strength of the anti-hunting movement. However, assisted by huge sums of cash from various green organisations plus a sympathetic press these 8 people could stop hunting in Spain if you are not careful. I think we must never forget that it is not terrorism but the environmental movement which presents the most significant threat to democratic society at this time. Greenpeace have spent £2 billion on PR selling their "man made warming" lie while the green movement prevents the use of effective anti-malaria measures resulting in the deaths of 2 - 3 million people each year. Just these details along give some idea of the influence of the green movement and of its ability to kill large numbers of people with not a single comment from the press.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Malinverni:
No info on Newspapers here in Italy

I am not surprised. Imagine what they'd told you if there had not been 100.000 hunters but 100.000 antis demonstrating against hunting. That would have made world news.

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
Greenpeace have spent £2 billion on PR selling their "man made warming" lie while the green movement prevents the use of effective anti-malaria measures resulting in the deaths of 2 - 3 million people each year. Just these details along give some idea of the influence of the green movement and of its ability to kill large numbers of people with not a single comment from the press.

In comparison their "success" in killing the seak fur market and thus, taking away the means of living from the Eskimos appears to be insignificant on a global scale.

However, for them the eco-fascistas did make a huge difference in their way of life. Nowadays the depend exclusively on welfare.