Yesterday evening I tested my Hardwoods camo (crush hat, jacket, gloves and pants) and ghilly face mask again. Bow hunting, I curled up into a hole in the ground from a fallen tree. I was surrounded by the fallen tree, dry grass, strawberry and blackberry bush and a small pine. A buck, a roe and her fawn came at the place, a feeding place. The doe was very jumpy and was always looking at me, then came sniffing and looked hard at me at 3 meters. Lucky I was in the lee of the north wind. Then she slowly left along with her fawn, unconcerned. Only the buck stayed at 10 meters. Every 10 seconds he was looking at me (as if I was owing him money?). My god, I was cramped and having crps, what a challenge poising my bow, at the speed of a raging snail. I hit the buck in the chest but my arrow didn�t get through. He fled, half of the arrow stuck in the chest.
No blood, and today, the bloodhound didn�t recover him. Shoulder blade shot? I am ashamed.
But I can swear that camo is very effective, permitting to stay stealthy not ten meters from 3 jumpy roes.

well ive been out this morning wearing cammo realtree trouses and a flektarn jacket boonie hat face veil and gloves,
result 1 doe
but what i did notice that there was someone else on the next bit of land to me, he was in full cammo and was sat among some dead grass but he looked almost black, he stood out a mile,
enventualy we met up with each other and he said they same thing about me,
pete i know about joe public with regards to cammo ive had shit from walkers even when they were walking somewhere they should not have been, so now i dont drive about with cammo on in car i just put my gear on when i get there, so now as ive said before bugger the cammo gear im all for RED lol,
as for dove/pidgeon shooting weve also tried orange netting the stuff that builders/road workers use never found any difference to normal DMP cammo netting as long as you sit still till birds are in shot.

Chapster1

Your little experiment has hit on of the major problems of todays cammo right on the head and its called "blobbing out". DPM does it as well especially when wet.

To be effective at a distance you need a pattern which is quite large and contrasty...its doesn't really need any black in it as such, as other dark colours appear black from a distance, when wet or in the shadow.

These leaf immitation cammo's look good in the shop and at short range but but most don't have enough contrast to stop blobbing out at longer ranges. If you're in a woodland in a tree stand where distances are short, I suppose they work; if you assume a deers eye/vision is the same as ours, but of course we are pretty sure its not..And thats the other problem with most cammo...its designed with humans in mind.

Do a search on the net for "Denison Smock"...its an old British cammo pattern from WW2 and it has a large bold/contrasty pattern that it does not blob out..Notice the ammount of light colours in it too....

There was an American pattern called ASAT or something similar which was very broad contrasting vertical strips which I believe would work well too. Neither look as "sexy" as the "Real Tree" type stuff and today even with stalkers and shooters I feel cammo is almost a fashion.

From a slightly different perspective, I used to stalk with an old guy who dressed extremely smartly in the European manner, with breeks, shirt & tie and hunting jacket in what I call German Field Army Grey.

He looked very respectable and one or two people we saw actually thought he was some sort of "Forest Ranger" rather than cammo clad "terrorist"...

Any way, we were stalking one day and we spit up and arranged to meet a little later and as I was walking up this hardwood ride to our spot, I was convinced I was early as i could not see him...He then stepped out from next to a large tree and I was amazed I had missed him.

The field army grey seemed to be almost a "neutral" colour that I just did not register, & this was aided by the fact he was standing still and in some dappled shade. I suspect it's no acciendent that many animals which prove hard to spot at times (from roe does to rabbits) have a coat of a similar grey...

Regards,

Pete

This will run and cause upset I bet. I am not really that convinced of the necessity for the latest range of disappear up your own hyacinth type of cammo. Having said that I have just come back from a morning at the Roe ladies, don't ask, having been covered head to toe in modern kit. There is however a very good reason for this, my Deerhunter coat was a present and my Browning bib and brace was a good deal, half price. I was warm and dry all mornng long and completely unnoticed by two pine martens that passed within 20 feet of me and a Fox. The Fox however did notice the creeping of my hand toward my gun, I had been watching those bloody Martens and not paying attention, he was off and running by the time I got the gun up to my shoulder, I squeaked him and he stopped and turned to look from the other side of a bare bush, I could see him but not shoot through the bush, he will come again. My point being, at last, that it is movement that is the give away and not the colour IMHO, and I am convinced that any decent light coloured tweed, or similar, will do the trick. In the meantime I shall stick to my presents, deals and Army Surplus

John

Interesting post. I just returned from the Czech Rep. where I hunted on four different drive hunts. I was warned before hand to not bring any camo or orange so I stuck with my normal loden and brown.

On one hunt another guest showed up in camo pants and a camo baseball cap. He was German but was kidded about being a Rambo. I was complimented by one of the Jaegermiesters for not being a Rambo, I think he was surprised, and respecting there traditions of clothing.

In Wisconsin I have watched Deer walk right up to a fellow clad in a Blaze Orange outfit, Hat, pants and coat. It doesn't seem to matter if you are still and upwind.

I started out conservative and worried about the general publics reaction to camouflage. Gradualy I realised that milsurp was free and that equipment in camo is generaly easier to get hold of.

I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to the game but it's a lot easier to get hold of a silent waterproof jacket in camo than a green one. Most of the greens seem very dark are normaly much more expensive.

Where I do draw the line is trousers. I won't wear camo trousers with a camo jacket - just to militaristic.

I haven't hunted in the UK yet, but I do not use camo in the US on elk, antelope, mule deer or whitetail deer. I did not use camo in Africa either. I use it when hunting ducks, but that is all. I have found that if you are still and pay attention to the wind, you can get plenty close to whatever. I caveat this with a - "I don't and won't bow hunt" - so all of my hunting is with the biggest rifle I can handle.

I know that I may be horning in on a thread that I shouldn't, but this Natural Gear uses a light background and just a bit of "shadowing" - Weatherby has a similar pattern in wool clothing. I've got a set of Browning parka and bib overalls that has a similar pattern and it seems to be pretty effective. I've also got a 3-D, "leafy-suit" to which I've added light colored yarn and yellow & red silk leaves - this seems to be very effective. I believe a camo net facemask and gloves are very important with any hunting but especially when hunting waterfowl. I have also seen that a grey shirt or jacket combined with green or brown (Carhartt tan) pants will make one completely disappear when in wooded areas. All that said, I have killed deer while wearing a blaze orange vest.

I am proud to introduce everybody my friend, a newbee on AR (he still screwed up , quoting instead of posting), luc Dombray.
A very nice guy, an avid hunter stuck in Paris. Not exactly the type of citydweller but one have to pay cash judgement mistakes.
He might be an asset, he is an OPTICIAN.
Here is his mug :

Camo is a hunting fashion for our eyes and not the animals. In many of our states you can walk into a restraunt in Camo and be greeted as a welcomed town guest that is coming in with good business. Many businesses hang "Welcome Hunters" banners during hunting season. I take it that the Hunters reception is much different in Europe.
I imagine that showing up in Tweeds and Breeks for a Colorado Elk hunt would raise just as many jokes and eyebrows as would showing up in full Shadowgrass Camo do a driven bird hunt in England. So do we dress to please ourselves, to blend with fellow hunters, to please or not disturb non-hunters, or to conceal ourselves from the animals?.................DJ

I agree with djpaintless,

Alot of the use of camo in the US is a social/fashion thing that doesn't have much to do with hiding from animals. Growing up in Alaska hunting we could always tell the resident hunters from the lower 48'er by the ammout of camo, the non-residents come off the plane looking like Cabelas adds.

Moving the the East coast the camo culture surprises me. I'll see guys coming into a Hockey game in Washington, DC on a Friday night and they are dressed in camo just like they are heading out to their tree stands.

hi everyone,
i"ve heard this arguement rage on for years, but i think it"s a matter of whatever you feel comfortable with, without getting arrested!
i hunted in canada for a couple of years, wearing a blaze orange hat and vest. as a Brit,
this felt wierd to me, but i did"nt want to be shot and tied to someone"s truck! i stalk deer regularly in the UK(mostly Scotland) and would"nt think about going out without a veil and gloves.
how about this.. has anyone heard of animals being able to see UV light? i read somewhere that the UV brighteners found in washing powders
make you "glow" to the deer. i worked in a linen factory years ago, and we used brighteners
which reflected UV light, you would"nt have known if it was on your hands until coming into contact with UV light, and then it really glowed. anyone heard of this, or is it a gimmic
to get gullible people like me to buy special purpose washing powder?
and for the record, i don"t think it matters
whether you wear "mossy oak" or "realtree" if you work the wind and be careful.

Brass Theif, I do use a soap with no UV-Brighteners. It's called Sport-Wash and I use it because of several more reasons than just the UV thing. Sport Wash is a liquid and so works OK in cold water, leaves no residue and works great on Gore-Tex, Wool and most hunting stuff. It also is Hypo-Allergenic and cost about the same or less than other soaps. One of those all around good deals that come by too infrequently........DJ

yes DJ, i"ve seen it in Cabeela"s but never used it. i might try it just out of curiosity.

djpaintles,

I agree with you 100%.

I've lived and hunted in many countries throughout the world. It appears the camo query is a culture thing and my advise as a respectful hunter is to attempt to be sensitive to local culture & tradition wherever you are hunting. In some countries it is illegal to wear period, let alone for hunting.

I work for the world's largest consumer goods company and have siginifcant experience with our's and most major competitor's detergents. Net, whatever you wear be it camo, loden or synthetics if you wash it in most every modern detergent you are adding brighteners to the clothing that significantly increases the clothing's visibility to animals that already see a different light spectrum than the human eye.

My proof test for washing hunting clothes (I also use Sport Wash from Cabelas) is to check the reflection of the clothes after they are washed under a UV light.

While I understand doping wind, remaining motionless, etc. and using weather conditions to a hunter's advantage; even the best hunting clothes when washed in modern detergents made for colored clothing will glow like a neon light when subject to UV.

Cheers,

Gerry

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I do not use camo in the US on elk, antelope, mule deer or whitetail deer. I use it when hunting ducks, but that is all.

Basically the same here. I would add turkey to the list of prey where camouflage is useful.

For our European friends who are not familiar with the North American wild turkey, let me tell you that they have some of the keenest eyesight in the animal kingdom. And as I have heard, theirs rivals ours. A most sporting animal to stalk.

To reinforce the "blend in cultural" idea: several years ago anybody in middle Europe would simply laugh at "blaze orange" and the like, our rules and experience would make this unnecessary and ridiculous ...

Now at driven hunts in the woods ALL drivers wear wests of blaze orange, most "Vorsteher", the hunters who wait, will carry blaze Orange hat bands.

The elder ones now are clearly recognizable, "only" green, no Pros ...

Even on open field small game hunts now i use my hat band.

Society changes ...

H

By my opinion the scent and the movements put game in allarm, and I had some interesting experiences.
Once I've been mistaken for a tree by a sqirrel. During a Boar hunt I was leaning against a lean near a wood, when the squirrel crossed the clearing and jumped on me. After a pair of second it realized that it was not climbing on a tree, too different the smell and the softness, and run away to climb some of more familiar. I was absolutely motionless and I've been lucky because I had the pleasure to see all the scene of the approaching. This has been happen twice, more or less in the same way. That times I was green dressed.

Many time, during boars hunts, roe deers and skin deers remained quite, also for long periods, while I was remaining motionless, and clearly visible in the middle of a cleaning, always with an orange blaze jacket. Sometime I sent'em aways clapping hands or making some step.

On the last December I lost a very big boar, over 130kg, because I made two micro steps to have a better vision. I did not make any noise. In November, instead I shooted a 110 Kg boar, I spent more or less 10 seconds, motionless, aiming it, while it was inspetting its escape way.
In these events I was dressing the orange blaze jacket.

Probably I've been always with a favourable wind. I had however some exception with boars, little or big does not matter, when running fast they do not divert, following theyr escape way without uncertainty.

For my money I would go with woolen clothing, it doesn't have a "shine" to it like a lot of material, and the fibres diffuse the light just like any animal hair/fur will. The only cammo I have is an army surplus bio hazard suit which I use for "scent free purposes" and it works very well for scent free but they can still see me if I'm not careful.

the chef

The camo market is as large as some countries entire GDP! I personally only used it when bow hunting (past tense), and then only found it really necessary when bowhunting the amazing North American Wild Turkey. As Pete pointed out, most camo patterns are utterly useless and are designed for people looking for some sort of "fashion statement." The best camo pattern I've ever seen is "Predator"... large, contrasting blocky shapes that break-up the eminantly recognizable human form. Very similar to WWI/European naval camoflage.

Interestingly Alberta doesn't require blaze orange like a lot of places ie Saskatchewan. We have the lowest shooting rate of hunters by other hunters in any jurisdiction in North america. The reason I've been told by fish and game warden is that with blaze orange areas a hunter doesn't bother identifying the target as much, they don't see orange so they think it's ok to shoot. Whereas in an area where other hunters might not be wearing orange we tend to really look before shooting

the chef

I have a sartorial dislike for camo. I almost always wear olive green when big game hunting. I have had an Elk come so close he could piss on me while wearing green. If you like camo for it's social value, then by all means wear it, but it is not necessary to conceal oneself from game. Lack of movement and scent is.