Happy new year gentlemen, I hope you are all suitably refreshed and looking forward to 2010!

Up a high seat a couple of weeks ago, during the recent cold snap with about 6 inches of snow over the fields, a herd of at least 30-40 Fallow does crossed the field from thick cover 150 yards to my left to raid a line of pheasant feeders that ran every 100 yards or so along the treeline to my right.

They came out with perhaps five to ten minutes of shooting light left and trotted along the treeline in an approximation of single file. They would stop sort of sequentially at bare patches of feed at the foot of cover or the feeders for a moment or two, occasionally straying a few metres out onto the snow-covered field, sufficient to give a magnificent silhouette for shooting purposes, much better than the one in the DSC shooting test anyway .

This was the first time I had been in this situation alone, at other times the decision being made for me by the stalker or the land owner and although I am reasonably proficient at assessing individual beasts as to whether or not to shoot them in the particular circumstances; floundered when faced with the whole herd.

Is it a matter of shooting the last in line, the first in line or just any one that presents a safe, unobstructed shot?

Does on wait for the deer to get in the field before culling one or take the first suitable one that come in range?

All advice and information gratefully appreciated.

Regards,

Amir

Pick a plump 3/4 grown one somewhere from the middle and give it the bad news.

It really depends on what your selection criteria are. I have met totally different criteria here on the Continent (where at this time of the year we would probably select 1) fawns, 2) yearling does, 3) very old, non-lactating females, 4) spikes, 5) bucks, if any antlered animals were still left on the cull), and in the UK (where 1) does were selected in advance of 2) anything else - to control population).

Apart from selection criteria, fallow in a bunch can be a bit of a challenge. First off, they usually don't stand still for long, so you have to deal with ever changing positions. Secondly, in particular if the herd gets agitated, they tend to bunch up no end, and it can be darn near impossible to pick out an individual animal.

Since we normally select young (mostly female) animals first here on the Continent, I always look for difference in size, and try to pick an animal noticeably smaller than the other non-antlered deer. Fawns are normally also recognizable via their short heads (faces?). But they are not always the ones last in the bunch, and they sure tend to change position a lot...

And then there is the worry that there is not another animal behind the one you want to shoot... Look carefully, or you might wound another one inadvertently...

How long you wait to shoot depends on a bunch of factors too. How sure are you the deer will stay in range or move off (into cover), how selective do you need to be etc etc. If you want to try to shoot multiple deer from a bunch, it is always good if your first deer goes down without running....

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
If you want to try to shoot multiple deer from a bunch, it is always good if your first deer goes down without running....

Mike... I guarentee you have opened up a whole heap of scenarios in our Glasshoppa's mind now!! However I think you are spot on.

When the first one goes down on the spot it makes the whole thing a lot easier in terms of multiple culls. however this shouldn't be a consideration in anyone less than the more experienced of stalkers, as thinking about the second shot often results in a mess of the first shot by a novice stalker.

Personally in these instances when the deer are usually quite chilled out, I prefer to take yearling does. Last year our fawns were way smaller than usuall due to the prolonged cold spell (My assumption) even at the end of the season so I didn't include them in the cull as the carcasses were little use.

~FB

Hey now, shooting multiple deer?

Not me governor, The second and third died of shock and empathy respectively...

i look to scan the bunch looking for weak or injured beasts as i scan the line i also try and identify what they are and that way i can make a quick decision which animal to go for as 1st-2nd or 3rd choice as the first animal just incase take incase they hav moved by the time i hav put the rifle up
weaker or injured beasts are priority if they are a sensible choice as even injured Does may hav young
a bunch as big as 40 will hav multiple beasts to choose from and probaly a pricket mixed in aswell
but as to which one to take depends on the way they are feeding or moving
as they come out into a field i try and choose one nearest to the back and hope it drops on the spot , that way it that stops them returning the way they came and also they normally stop and look at the one on the floor
then i either split the bunch by taking one out of the middle if a sensible shot is on so they spread out and not bunch up then i pick a kid out as that way it is a safe bet that you don't shoot the wrong doe
or shoot a lead animal , again if a sensible choice and shot is on, so they don't all run off and often will bunch up for a few minutes wondering which direction to move off in
this is where identifying any suitable prickets in the bunch comes in, as if all else fails prickets are an easier option to recognise in a group often not bunching up as tight as the does and kids
just because you hav 30 infront don't ensure you will shoot multiple beasts, cos as one runs they all run it depends how far before they stop and look back
but also as stated be aware of bullet deflections as that can occur with fallow as they start to bunch up

Hi mate
Personally I would do a quick scan for any limping/scruffy and obviously skinny does that need culling.

No sick animal? I will take a yearling (slightly smaller than a mature doe, no fawn at heel) in preference, or a barren doe (they can be hard to identify).

Personally I can't age does beyond i) fawns (small, short face and obviously young), ii) yearlings (nearly adult size, no fawn), and iii) adult does (large, slightly angular and generally with a fawn at heel).

I usually lay off the prickets after the begninning of doe season on the basis that they have been hit hard earlier in the year.

There is one school of thought that says you should take every chance you get to shoot a doe - any doe that is safe to shoot - as the majority of land has far too many does and stalkers can't seem to get on top of the doe cull.

Finally in terms of 'waiting' I wouldn't wait too long, as noted above, it only takes one fallow to spook the entire herd and they're off. Especially when they get out onto open fields, they can be very jumpy and the chances of getting more than one shot are slim. I would pick a target and track it in the scope as early as possible. When it pauses to graze - give it the aforementioned 'bad news'!

Fallow does - surprisingly challenging for the reasons you covered.

This is how I do it - I feed into the equation:-

Backstop
Size
Angle
Range
Head up
How settled
Location within herd (ie is it clear)

Therefore the largest doe that stands clear, still, broadside with it's head up and within range gets it. This happens surprisingly rarely.

There are a few things to watch with this sort of stalking. One you might have to wait a fair time so there is a temptation to snatch a shot. It seems incredible that you could watch a herd of 30deer for say 10minutes and not be able to shoot but as you saw true opportunities can be surprisingly rare. If you are going to breathe and squeeze properly you might find you can't get enough time to get a settled shot. So you have to be prepared to pass rather than get increasingly frustrated and finaly shoot something that isn't really wise.

The other thing is to note where it was when you shot and follow it in the scope. At least to start with I would concentrate on watching the reaction to shot and tracking it in the scope rather than reloading and losing sight picture (obviously if you think you wounded it then that goes out the window) I would forget multiples to start with as this is where 95% of problems occur when people shift onto another without seeing where the first fell (or did not fall)

If they are grazing strongly then it might be hard to get a head up shot - in this case aim on the shoulder and very definately not behind unless you like green in the chest cavity.

Thank you again for all the advice gentlemen, lot's here to read and digest.

I'll report back on the successful application whereof.

Regards,

A

Thank you 1894, I do understand what you are saying but please don't feel the need to provide less information in future!

Seriously now, the depth and breadth of experience on here and the willingness to share that hard-won information is humbling.

ATB,

A

firing into a herd of 30 deer to kill one ,leaves 29 educated animals.

you would be far better culling them coming into the feeding grounds in small groups or stalking them else where on your ground.

but its a good problem to have, enjoy working it out

quote:

Originally posted by john wickham:
firing into a herd of 30 deer to kill one ,leaves 29 educated animals.

you would be far better culling them coming into the feeding grounds in small groups or stalking them else where on your ground.

but its a good problem to have, enjoy working it out

Aaah!

A very good point.

But is it much different from taking one deer from a small group, ie a pricket with a few does in buck season repeatedly?

You need to educate and train your eye sight, to be able to quickly scan and identify a group of animals. This is always difficult when dealing with a new species one hunts; I found that it helps to learn a bit about the species, especially what gets different with age and watch them a lot, pictures also help.

quote:

Originally posted by john wickham:
firing into a herd of 30 deer to kill one ,leaves 29 educated animals.

you would be far better culling them coming into the feeding grounds in small groups or stalking them else where on your ground.

but its a good problem to have, enjoy working it out

I don't find that to be the case. I regularly shoot, recover the carcass (or leave it if it's cold), go elsewhere and come back 3 hours later to shoot more again.

With Fallow I don't find them to be that intelligent.

In fact on the piece of ground we have in Glos if you hit them hard in the morning you can also hit them hard in the evening and in fact the following evening again!

With our ground it depends on available feed and so on and so on.