I am posting this here, as the only folks that seem to care about 10,3 rifles are the Swiss.

My question concerns what 10,3 wildcats have been developed, and I was looking for a source for light for caliber Very Low Drag 10,3 bullets.

I was thinking of doing a 10,3x64 on the 9.3x64 Brenneke case or a 10,3-416 Ruger.

It's been done before
You should log onto
Airgunbbs or stalking directory
There are extensive write up about this

Couldn't find anything in the stalking directory.

And google gave me zilch!

MOA,

Do a search here for "Collani" & "10,3x60R"; I met him in Zurich with mho (Mike) and IIRC he was making his own light for caliber 10,3 monometal bullets.

At one time Collani was posting here pretty regularly but haven't heard form him for a while.

Got to shoot his 10,3x60R rifle in Zurich, too. Big Boomer!

Gerry,

Thanks, I already did just that.

Problem with the 416 is that most of the bullets made for it are 400 grains or more. I want to shoot a 250-320 grain very low drag bullet. And I don't want to invest in $4500 worth of Corbin presses to build them myself.

MOA tactical

Owe you an apology thought tis was a wind up so I suggested you should go to those Internet hunter's sites for information

Please accept my sincere appologise

Will 12.9 grams 950 metre per second do in your caliber ?

I will PM where you can buy them off the shelf

Should be fine.

Impala and Lutz Moeller both make the bullets and so does the outfit on Collani's website.

I asked Hornady for a 405 WCF bullet that had those properties but they told me it would be easier for me to have someone small make them.

http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/10,3-mm/10,3-mm.htm

This should work.

Lothar Walther will make a barrel. I want to do fairly heavy contour, but not super long. Going to have it built at 26 inches and ideally I'd like it to be 22. Then I'll finish it and install the sights.

Not 100% sure what action to start with. I am thinking of doing it on a Howa 1500 with a Manners stock.

Want to use it out to 500 meters.

We shoot a 30-06 in 8 inch groups at 1000 in F-Class, can't see why I can't make this big boomer do something wonderful at 500.

Something like 10.3x416 Ruger Ackley improved for lengthened case life.

... or get in touch with AR's own "Collani" (Reto) via (only in German):

http://www.gian-marchet.ch/GM-...i-Gian-Marchet-d.htm

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by MOA TACTICAL:

Lothar Walther will make a barrel. I want to do fairly heavy contour, but not super long. Going to have it built at 26 inches and ideally I'd like it to be 22. Then I'll finish it and install the sights.

Not 100% sure what action to start with. I am thinking of doing it on a Howa 1500 with a Manners stock.

Want to use it out to 500 meters.

We shoot a 30-06 in 8 inch groups at 1000 in F-Class, can't see why I can't make this big boomer do something wonderful at 500.

Something like 10.3x416 Ruger Ackley improved for lengthened case life.

@MOA TACTICAL

Well I'm using the .413er Gian-Marchet Bullets out of the .416 Remington Magnum. Those Bullets weight 253 Grains (16,5 grams) and the Muzzle Velocity is about 900 m/s. I've shot marmots at about 200 meters. But I don't understand why You would like to use a .413 Bullet for Long Range Hunting.

I have now a 10,3x64, based on the cartridge 9,3x64. But to be honest, this cartridge will not be able to surpass the performance of the .416 Remington Magnum. Or think about the .416 Weatherby Magnum – enough power…

Don't get me wrong: but why do you not use a .338 Lapua Magnum.

Here a Test
.338 Lapua Magnum Test with different Bullet Types


Good shooting and good hunting.

Collani

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
MOA tactical

Owe you an apology thought tis was a wind up so I suggested you should go to those Internet hunter's sites for information

Please accept my sincere appologise

Will 12.9 grams 950 metre per second do in your caliber ?

I will PM where you can buy them off the shelf

@londunhunter

Well I tried the Impala as well as Lutz’s KJGs and I have to say that the SD of both the Bullets are so low that after 300 meters the wind drift will be so bad…

Here a test of all possible Bullets for the cartridge 10,3x60R:
http://www.collani.ch/Patronen-Test-d.htm
Please do a google translation of the Page to get at least a English translation of my webpage…

Good shooting and good hunting

Collani

@all

Here an other Wildcat, for the .413 Bullets. The so called 10,3x74R...

10,3x74R

This cartridge is based on the well known 9,3x74R. It is just a necked up to .413

The performance of this new creation is about the same as the 10,3x60R...

Good shooting and good hunting.
Collani

Thank you Collani,

At the end of the day it is about using a bigger hammer.

I'll do some more research.

Right now I am leaning toward a 416 Ruger with a 28 inch super heavy barrel.

Speed isn't always your friend.

I've hunted with Helmut Eller (Impala) and he's a fine gentleman.

According to his brochure it claims he'll do custom bullets in orders of 100 pieces or more; specifically different diameters and different weights in existing diameters.

www.impalabullets.at

Helmut is already making a 240 gr. .416" bullet but the BC is a measly .272.

Have yout tried Jaguar Bullets/Ammunition? Albrecht Huf is making some really spiffy VLD .48 caliber bullets. Perhaps you could interest them in VLD's in other calibers?

www.jaguar-patronen.de

a.huf@german-precision-ammunition.de

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
I've hunted with Helmut Eller (Impala) and he's a fine gentleman.

According to his brochure it claims he'll do custom bullets in orders of 100 pieces or more; specifically different diameters and different weights in existing diameters.

www.impalabullets.at

Helmut is already making a 240 gr. .416" bullet but the BC is a measly .272.

Have yout tried Jaguar Bullets/Ammunition? Albrech Huf is making some really spiffy VLD .48 caliber bullets. Perhaps you could interest them in VLD's in other calibers?

www.jaguar-patronen.de

a.huf@german-precision-ammunition.de

@MOA TACTICAL

Well I know Mr. Huf and Mr. Herrlinger wery well because I'm working together with them. Please give them a try, especially for the VLDs because they are fantastic...

@Gerry
BTW: the B.C. of Hellers Impala in the caliber .413 is only .230 (and not .272). He is alwas cheating with the B.Cs. I have tested the 9,3x62 as well and the measured B.C. of this bullet is also less then published.

Good shooting and good hunting.
Collani

quote:

Originally posted by collani:

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
MOA tactical

Owe you an apology thought tis was a wind up so I suggested you should go to those Internet hunter's sites for information

Please accept my sincere appologise

Will 12.9 grams 950 metre per second do in your caliber ?

I will PM where you can buy them off the shelf

@londunhunter

Well I tried the Impala as well as Lutz’s KJGs and I have to say that the SD of both the Bullets are so low that after 300 meters the wind drift will be so bad…

Here a test of all possible Bullets for the cartridge 10,3x60R:
http://www.collani.ch/Patronen-Test-d.htm
Please do a google translation of the Page to get at least a English translation of my webpage…

Good shooting and good hunting

Collani

google translate has it's limits...

quote:

The Grisons cartridge has a gas-approval (CIP gas pressure) of max. 2,700 bar, the gas pressure measurements were performed according to piezo method in the laboratory for ballistics in tuna and measured.

The poor bugger...

Shocking

Collani,

How did you come up with the BC value of the bullets?

Doppler radar?

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by collani:

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
MOA tactical

Owe you an apology thought tis was a wind up so I suggested you should go to those Internet hunter's sites for information

Please accept my sincere appologise

Will 12.9 grams 950 metre per second do in your caliber ?

I will PM where you can buy them off the shelf

@londunhunter

Well I tried the Impala as well as Lutz’s KJGs and I have to say that the SD of both the Bullets are so low that after 300 meters the wind drift will be so bad…

Here a test of all possible Bullets for the cartridge 10,3x60R:
http://www.collani.ch/Patronen-Test-d.htm
Please do a google translation of the Page to get at least a English translation of my webpage…

Good shooting and good hunting

Collani

google translate has it's limits...

quote:

The Grisons cartridge has a gas-approval (CIP gas pressure) of max. 2,700 bar, the gas pressure measurements were performed according to piezo method in the laboratory for ballistics in tuna and measured.

The poor bugger...

Hey Ghubert, I can certainly appreciate smiling at the "mis-translation" of the Swiss town name of "Thun" (Bernese Oberland). It is rare I see any automatic translations which are halfway readable. It must be fiendishly difficult to write such translators.

To break a lance for Google, I guess we have to point out, that the German word for tuna (fish) and the Bernese town of "Thun" is spelt exactly the same. Even to the point of both being capitalized...

- mike

quote:

..... I know Mr. Huf and Mr. Herrlinger wery well because I'm working together with them. Please give them a try, especially for the VLDs because they are fantastic .....

Collani,

Yo, both Albrecht & Klaus are two fellows who are very easy to work with.

I saw them both last week in Dortmund; where we managed to down a hurried cup of coffee together as they hardly had an extra second to spare at their Jagd & Hund Booth due to the inquiries concerning their bullets & ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by collani:

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
MOA tactical

Owe you an apology thought tis was a wind up so I suggested you should go to those Internet hunter's sites for information

Please accept my sincere appologise

Will 12.9 grams 950 metre per second do in your caliber ?

I will PM where you can buy them off the shelf

@londunhunter

Well I tried the Impala as well as Lutz’s KJGs and I have to say that the SD of both the Bullets are so low that after 300 meters the wind drift will be so bad…

Here a test of all possible Bullets for the cartridge 10,3x60R:
http://www.collani.ch/Patronen-Test-d.htm
Please do a google translation of the Page to get at least a English translation of my webpage…

Good shooting and good hunting

Collani

google translate has it's limits...

quote:

The Grisons cartridge has a gas-approval (CIP gas pressure) of max. 2,700 bar, the gas pressure measurements were performed according to piezo method in the laboratory for ballistics in tuna and measured.

The poor bugger...

Hey Ghubert, I can certainly appreciate smiling at the "mis-translation" of the Swiss town name of "Thun" (Bernese Oberland). It is rare I see any automatic translations which are halfway readable. It must be fiendishly difficult to write such translators.

To break a lance for Google, I guess we have to point out, that the German word for tuna (fish) and the Bernese town of "Thun" is spelt exactly the same. Even to the point of both being capitalized...

- mike

Thanks Mike.

I eventually worked it out but for a moment I was more than a bit confused. Ballistic tuna sounded like something I should know about...

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
Ballistic tuna ...

I'm confused , are we talking about shooting tuna fish with a rifle ?
Actually tuna have very high ballistic coefficients ,the bluefin tuna is capable of 55 mph speeds !!

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
I'm confused , are we talking about shooting tuna fish with a rifle ?
Actually tuna have very high ballistic coefficients ,the bluefin tuna is capable of 55 mph speeds !!

Switzerland's extensive coastline and position as a significant trading post in the Tuna trade means that bizarrely enough there is a glut of condemned tuna available.

Ballistic Tuna, at a specific temperature and packing density is a useful medium for ballistic testing, the flesh approximating red meat particularly closely.

Europe is a unique place.

Nice transition 10.3 to Tuna.

Everyone loves Tuna!

quote:

Originally posted by MOA TACTICAL:
Collani,

How did you come up with the BC value of the bullets?

Doppler radar?

@MOA TACTICAL

Well I have done 5 shots thru 5 chronys at 5 different distances (e.g. 7,5 meters, 12,5 meters, 100, 200 and 300 meters). Then according to the measurements I could calculate the "measured" B.C. of all Gian-Marchet Bullets as well as the Impala Bullet in caliber .366 (for the 9,3x62 cartridge).

At the same time I did some terminal ballistic tests to ensure the Gian-Marchet Bullet is working fine.

Here just one example for the cartridge .375 Holland Holland Magnum, loaded with the Gian-Marchet Otjiruse
Terminal Ballistic Test

Then I did some accuracy Tests as well at 100 meters (approx. 109 yards) as well as at 300 meters. That was a lot of fun to see that this hunting Bullets are able to punch holes at 300 meters within less then 8 cm (approx. 3,15 in).

I did all those Tests for all different types of the Gian-Marchet Bullets.

Hope I could help...

Good shooting and good hunting.
Collani

@all

Funny to see how the subject of a post can be switched...

quote:

Originally posted by collani:
@all

Funny to see how the subject of a post can be switched...

It's all your fault!

with a little help from Google translate of course.

Ghubert

You will earn more money acting as translator negotiating the Greece euro bail out

The way this thread is going we be out of debt in no time

Collani,

Thanks! I am a ballistic math nerd, and it never fails to amaze me how much we can figure out about the bullets flight.

Is there a 1000 meter range anywhere near you?

For F-Class shooting we try and do all of our load data in the 6.5x47 at 600-800 on really perfect days. Days like that are really rare where I shoot, but you can learn alot about what you think is a good load combination at those ranges.

I have my .416 rem mag shot wit 10,3 bullet.
Attention my rifle is special i have chamber in 416 and the barrel is 10,3.
Wit normal bullet KS or TM (RWS) i make 930 m/s wit Möller 1050 m/s.
And today i have make one CNC bullet for shot in my .416 rem mag.

Collani,

I had thought about using the 416 Remington, but the case is so long and I might want to use VLD bullets.

So that is why I am thinking of using the 416 Ruger. Then in a standard length rifle like a Remington 700 I can load longer bullets.