OK, I am calling on all those hunters that have first hand experience on bullet effect on UK deer species, chest shooting effects and subsequent meat damage. I am still looking for a GREAT 7mm-08 projectile that is quick enough for upto 350yard shots (flat shooting), heavy construction (to limit meat damage) and accurate. DON'T ASK MUCH DO I!!!

For those that have followed my previous dicussions I have now been using 150gr GameKings, meat damage still an issue on Roe on oblique shots. Looked into GS Custom - price is about £1 a shot -ARE THEY THAT GOOD BEFORE I BUY SOME???

Who and what are Accubonds like...?

Look forward to the responses!

Hi

I use 7mm 139 gn Hornady interbonds for relatively long range roe deer hunting in Scotland. THey are very robust and the cores hold together well. Good BC gives a flat trajectory and meat damage is minimal IMHO.
Thjey are easy to get from MidwayUK and are inexpensive.

These bullets I shot through a 12" tree trunk at 100 m, NBT,s just shead the cores and scatter copper all over the chest cavity.

If you are looking at all copper high velocity bullets look at Lutz Moeller's website he has an English page discussing the terminal performance on his bullets.

I load 155 gn in my 357H+H @ 3300 fps and they group well (4 shots 16mm)



Mark

Regards

Mark

I think meat damage can be an issue with an oblique shot with almost any bullet. I have used most bullet types and they all seem to work well on a broadside chest shot if you stay away from the shoulder. It would probably be worth trying Barnes TSX or any other mono-metal bullet as you can be sure of structural integrity.
Cheers
Ed

Another vote for shot placement, although I have gone from H"day Interlocks to Grand Slam in my .243 and found a slight difference with the tougher bullet, but not a great deal(it"s hard to compare one carcase to another)
I will vote against SST"s having seen 2 deer wrecked in recent weeks by SST"s in 6.5 and 308.
I use .243 on all UK deer except maybe big stags on hill stalking in Scotland, although I have done it with .243 in the past.
I tried reducing bullet weight and velocity in 308, with 130 grs but it was a dissaster on Roe. They looked like landmine victims.
My mate had a 30-06 and tried bullets up to 180gr (Game King and Remy Core-loct), but the calibre was just overpowered.
Tougher bullets will help, but bad angles will increase resistance and produce more expansion. Deer are not hard to kill if you hit something important! The best way to save carcases is to pick your shots.
good shooting

It's real easy;

7mm/08 w/140grain Nosler Partitions - your issues will be resolved.

No meat problems and super accuracy.

Period.

Try the TSX's. I shot a buck a few days ago that was quite heavily quartering towards me. meat damage was limited, and in this instance the round was a bit too punchy for my liking.

I think if it was a bit less pokey meat damage would be even less with no loss in performance.

The nice thing with the TSX is that it goes right through and you don't have the problem of bullets breaking up inside the beast, which can cause some extra meat damage

FB

Gentlemen

Please don’t take this the wrong way. But if you are worried about meat damage shoot the beast in the neck. It is almost fool proof. Also makes cleaning the animal a lot less of a mess. Not trying to sound like the know it all American but it has to be the most confidence inspiring shot you can make. Basically bang – flop. Very humane and like I say there’s noth’in like watch’in ‘em hit the ground through the scope. By the way my favorite neck shot load is a 140grn Nosler Ballistic Tip in my 7mm mag.

Shawn

Some great observations on bullet selection for sound kills and low meat damage.

I do agree that shot placement is paramount in any culling undertaken, but claims that any bullets will cause meat damage if an oblique shot is taken, is in my opinion, untrue. Also neck shots are definately not fool proof, period! I have a good level of experience in neck and head shots, administered by myself and others to limit meat damage and shoot high numbers of deer in park situations and statements that neck shots are fool proof are untrue, yes beasts "generaly" go down but as to whether they are dead instantly is untrue, this is only guaranteed with a sound head shot, in my experience.

What I was looking for was bullet types for a 7mm that could be used for chest shooting to get a cull in, but wasn't bruised/damaged to hell. Sounds like Interbonds, Accubonds, Partitions and TSX are the bullets of choice, better start the testing process!

Where in UK are folks getting TSX,s from, should I be looking at 120 or 140 for 7-08? Surely deer run a bit more when shot with these bullets, observations called for!

Thanks for all the observations so far, keep them coming....

Nightwalker,

I ot my TSX's from Reloading Solutions. They can only send to RFD's and they have a £14 shipping charge so ti is worth getting a few things to make it worth your while or get your local dealer to tag some extra on his order.

Yourk Guns are the official importer for Barnes so they are also worth a call, although I have yet to ever find them with what I want.

Ont he TSX they also make a heavier 160gr bullet. you can go heavier and a bit slower, limiting meat damage.

The other option is to buy them if you are abroad eithe on the continent or USA, as they ar A LOT cheaper.

Incidentally, we struggled with the Barnes MRX in 243. They seemed to really liike a clean cold barrel, so you were not sure where the 2nd and definately 3rd shot was going, which in a culling situation isn't a limitation you want to have, especially at 350m.

FB

Thanks for that info FB, I am an RFD so no bother on that front. Guess you have highlighted some of my own concerns over the TSX bullets (dependability) so maybe I should try some of the other alternatives first.

Has Reloading Solutions opened their new premises now, as I could be over in Oxfordshire in a weeks time?

NWer,

I have so much more expereince with the 140 grain Noslers in 7X57R (kinda similar in performance to your 7mm/08) than any other bullet so I'm kinda partial to them. They've delivered pretty consistant results; even with raking shots. One time one of these Nosler bullets went over the haunch (singing the hairs along the rump), entered the left side behind the last rib, completely penetrated a Roe Buck, exited the right front of the chest and what was remaining of the bullet then cut a cookie cutter hole under the jaw exiting the top of the nose. Bang-Flop and nothing blood-shot, either.

I did start trying the 120 gr. Barnes TSX's in my 7X57R last year and the accuracy at 100 meters has been outstanding. I ended up with three shot clover leaves with a pretty stout charges of both VV N-160 & VV N-560, I decided to go with the latter which I'm using now.

While no where near a statistically sigificant amount of game has fallen to this load; three Roe Deer (all Does) with my Stubby barreled K-95, this bullet delivered the goods, of the three; two dropped instantly and the third went about 10 meters. Accurate and small, 1" exit wounds with no blood-shot meat; so far pretty much what you're asking for. I will certainly continue to develop this load.

NW,

When I last spoke to them a few ,months ago they were in the process of moving if I remember correctly, as they were holding only order stock to make the move easy. I would think they are up and running now though. I did have a look for the website they ghave been talking about for the last couple of years and I can't find it as yet. I'll get a number if you need it and PM it over.

BTW, just to be clear, Dependability and consistency have not been an issue with the Triple Shoks at all. We had some issues with the MRX, (little blue coated ones).

Personally I'm looking to find a load for my 243 and will be looking at the TSX and Partitions before anything else.

Rgds,
FB

What you ask is impossible - the requirements are too extreme.

Roe seem very prone to large exit wounds with anything remotely flat shooting over 243. I think it's a product of the animals build. It has enough mass to start a bullet expanding but not enough to slow it down much. The resultant projectile is still travelling at a hell of a rate of knots when it exits with a much greater risk of blowing chunks of bone etc through with it.

I think this is why the mid range bullets in 243 do so well on roe - they expand quickly, damage the internal organs but have lost enough momentum that exits are slow and cause less trauma. In my experience they also do very well on fallow out to 200yards (all I have experience of)

Fallow are much less affected by larger calibres shooting fast expansive bullets. As an example a 120gr BT at 3,000fps produces BIG holes in roe yet looks completely normal on fallow...I have shot a fallow shot at 300yards with a 7mm 120gr ballistic tip that would near cut a roe in half at 50yards. It too stood still long enough that you think you have missed yet the bullet expanded well enough to be found under the skin on the far side...


My 7x57 load for roe and reds is a 140gr accubond at 2,800fps. Recently I shot 2 roe at 200m. The head shot (very good rest on couched deer with no wind) decapitated it and the chest shot on the fawn produced a 4" exit wound.

We ask difficult things of our bullets. To perform at 250yards a bullet must be more expansive than desired at 100yards. A 100gr 6.5x55 ballistic tip will produce a tiny exit wound on roe at 250. A solid lung shot produces little to no reaction and an animal that stands for 10-15 seconds before it falls - imagine the effect of a tough bullet....

Where most of my stalking is roe I use a 243, where most of it is fallow and the range over 200yards I use a 6.5x55 or 7x57 and accept damage on roe - I've given up trying to acheive anything better!

Carcass handling has a big effect on blood shot meat. Quick elevation, draining and chilling reduces spread considerably IMHO.

Top comment '94. I think if you are worried about losing meat due to bullet performance then the answer is to shoot a second beast to make up the difference!! In general, most/any high velocity bullet is going to make a carcass look a bit like a car accident.

Kind regards,

My experience with 140 grain Nosler BT's in the 7X57R on Roe Deer has been a disaster; while they are super accurate at the range and look great on paper targets the terminal perfomance on game is seriously lacking IMO; just like 1894 said, way TOO EXPLOSIVE - not a pretty sight.

I agree 100% on 1894's expereince with the midweight bullets in the .243 Winchester on Roe Deer. The 85 grain Nosler Partitions have given me not only fantastic accuracy but the best terminal performance I've expereinced on Roe Deer with this cartridge. The 85 grain Speer SPBT's and the Sierra 85 gr. HPBT's (Game Kings) aren't too far off the mark either.

.243 with 100grain soft point. Legal and ample for anything anywhere!

1894,

You give good advice! Based on one of your postings, I loaded 100 grain ballistic tips at 2950 fps in my 6.5x55 for an August roe stalking in Scotland. I had excellent results. Now I find that we use pretty much the same load on red deer in a 7x57. My 140 grain accubonds at just a shade less than 2800 fps worked perfectly on stags last October.

Al

Al,

Glad to hear we're thinking along the same lines! Unfortunately my accubonds have yet to be tested on reds as the deer and weather have been very unco-operative.

1894,

Are those west country reds still not playing ball? I rekon if you go down there June or July time you won't be able to go out anywhere without seeing a big stag 15 yards away!!

Rgds,
FB

Some ggod common sense being spoken here folks!
Have spoken to Reloading Solutions Direct, they have got a good supply of heads in, so will be doing some testing!!

GERRY, the 140gr Nosler BT's you speak of being too explosive, what type were they, not Accubonds? It is the Accubonds that I might try, along with the Hornady Interbonds (have read threads that the Interbonds can be tricky to shoot straight, what are USERS thoughts on this please?) Great price for the Interbonds.

Come on England today!!!

(Eng / Ireland game just finished, the STRONGEST team won, great game though!)

Yes, those were the 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips that I had such a miserable expereince with my 7x57R. A Stutzen, too with it's 19.6" barrel with subsequent velocity loss. They were just brutal on Roe - Bucks, Does & Fawns.

I have the good fortune to be able to take good broadside standing shots on Roe in our Lease without being under any pressure to HAVE to take a shot (there's always tomorrow). Even with good shooting discipline the results were completely disemboweled Fawns and both front shoulders ruined with the Does & Bucks with huge exit wounds.

The Ballistic Tips are not the Accubonds which although a very similar shaped bullet from Nosler the AB's are a much tougher bullet made with bonded cup/core technology.

My expereince with the Interbonds is EXACTLY as yours. I can get the Hornady Interlocks (Round Noses) in .7mm (154 gr.) & .30 (180 gr.) caliber to shoot fantastically out of a number of rifles & cartridges (7X57R, 7mm Rem. Mag., 7x64, .308 Win. & .30/06 Sprg.) whereas I ran out of my supply of both Interbonds & SST's (100 bullets each) before I came anywhere near finding an accurate load in both the .30/06 Sprg. and the 7X57R.

Having said all that I hope you manage a load that meets your expectations. Roe are after all small Deer with a very fine meat texture (that's why they taste so good IMO) that won't stand up to anywhere near the kind of load or pummeling a Sika, Fallow or Red Deer will.

nightwalker
ive been using 150g swaft scirrocos for the last 5 years in 7x64 @2950 fps fantastic performance on fallow/roe/ boar very minimal meat damage at ranges in excess of 400 yds, also shot some foe the last few weeks with 180 g scirrocos in my 300 win mag with very little damge no blood shot meat,for comparison i shot 4 roe yesterday with 180 g sako superhammerheads just to use the last few up with 300 win exit holes where between 4-6 inches,,,on the plus side great blood trails
regardds scirroco

NW
don't waste your time looking for the ideal bullet,like ideal calibres it doesn't exist!!
All that will happen is that you will end up with part used boxes on your reloading bench..

Different deer,different ranges, bullets can't tell the difference.. Put up with the meat damage when it occurs and when it doesn't smile....

Two rules only: thick skinned game "premium bullets".
thin skinned game $15.00 a box..

regards
griff

Ha HA, he means it, this is a man who shoots fallow with a 264 winmag!!
good shooting

Ditto to Scirocco on the SuperHammerheads in .308. Even in the slower calibre they were not exiting on broadside Fallow at 70yds. That was in the Sako factory loads.

Rgds
FB

BT,
nearly the perfect cartridge!
I only shot one on the last trip of the season,(1 out of 7)shot through the top of the shoulders @ 175-200yds, little damage on exit only a small bit of lung tissue on the exit hole...
Was using run of the mill Speer 120gn @ 3450fps "approx", sometimes big exit wounds sometimes not!
Used Nosler Partition, meat damage was similar,accuracy in my rifle with NP was not acceptable, also found this was the findings of two other reputable AR members.
Being a tight fisted sod, I found that the cost of the premium bullets on our thin skinned deer was not needed, however on the stags I found that the use of a premium bullet was advantageous...
What is needed is in heavy cover situation is maximum damage, with large exit wounds and huge blood loss, we all know the results of no blood trail in heavy cover... so until the major bullet manufacturers develop an intelligent bullet, us mortals are going to have to put up with sometimes unpredictable results...

regards
griff

Went and picked up some 140gr Accubonds yesterday, from Reloading Solutions Direct.

Their new shop is up and running, website is in construction and a newer catalogue will follow later. Phone them up before going to the shop, it is holding a good stock of items.

Now to try these Accubonds!!!

Another vote for 140gr Partitions...