I should be in the position next October, to own a workign dog again. College and new job, and then on the job qualifications have stopped me owning one for the last few years. Prior to this i had springers and labs.

With doing more and more stalking, I think i ought to get a dog specificaly with this is mind, as all my pheasant shooting is on formal shoots and i would rather concentrate there on shooting not working a dog.

What species are people using on deer? I had been reading up on the Bavarian Mountain Hounds, but was amazed at the price of pups.

Friends have teckels, and i cant stand them!


Thanks

SWS

SWS

What is a dog used for in this context? Some sambar deer stalkers over here use a companion gun dog like a GSP, Weimaraner or Vizsla to scent/point then follow-up after the shot. I have thought of getting a dog for this purpose in the past, but have not had the time needed to train up a dog. I have always thought that hunting with a well trained dog is a great experience.

Fergus

if you want a dog stictly for deer stalking, then I would get the Bavarians you mentioned. Jan has excellent dogs that are bred for working. I have stalked with her and can not speak highly enough of these dogs.

Jan Andrews web site

I suggest ringing Jan and talking dogs and stalking. SHe is not that far from you, so maybe you could arrange for a day of stalking and get to see the dogs in action.

Feel free to ask if oyu would like further details on the dogs

It really depends on what you want from the dog..some people want the dog to walk to heel while they stalk and point/indicate unseen deer while others simply want to have a dog that will find a wounded deer after the shot.

To get an over view of the subject I recommend you get Guy Wallaces booklet on the subject "Dogs For Deer"; I think the BDS sells it...

If you want a good all rounder that will point and track wounded deer and possibly pull one down if required, I would suggest a HPR of some sort..GWP's are supposed to be very good, but are pretty strong willed, can be "sharp" and are generally not recommended for the novice.

GSP's have all the same advantages of their hairy German counterparts, but are generally considered a bit easier to train and a bit less "sharp"..

Labs..From good working lines, they are born to walk to heel, have a good nose and make a very good all rounder..I do wonder if they would tackle a wounded deer though?

Collies...Not a traditional gun dog, but is there anything these dogs can't be trained to do? Excellent noses and an inbuilt desire to please...some are a bit nervy though, and my only worry is whether it would be gun shy or not?

Spanials..Not really designed to walk to heel although if trained young enough, might be good..If you wanted to use it for roughshooting, such intensive heel training might spoil its natural hunting? I don't see any reason why they would not be excellent for finding wounded deer though, but again if the beast were still alive, i'm not sure it would have the bottle to tackle it?

GSD's...Unorthodox, but why not? Very important to get good breeding as many lines have hip problems ect...

Terriers...I use a Border and hes a great little dog, but not a real all rounder. Needs firm handling all the while as they are easily distracted..Good noses though, will follow a scent trail and will walk to heel if trained early enough..best not to use them on any other game though...They certainly have the heart to tackle a wounded beast, but not really the size.
I always fancied an Airdale, but getting one from working lines is very difficult in the UK.

Sighthounds/Lurchers..Sometimes a bit nervy, so could be gun shy?? Genrally bred to chase their prey,they would not be my first choice as a deer dog..

The Continental hounds...They seem to excel on a cold, difficult blood trailmore so than even conventional gundogs/HPR's. Not sure what they are like for walking to heel, and indicating unseen deer ect??? Very expensive in the UK and with very limited availability as yet..

Heinz 57...Almost any dog is better than no dog when it comes to finding wounded deer especially if the scent is relatively fresh..while I would not recommend a "mutt" by choice, if I owned one by default, I would certainly try it, especially if it had working breeds in its mix...

All in all, I think a GSP or Lab is a safe bet for a first deer dog..

Regards,

Pete

Why not a Norwegian (Grey)Elkhound. This is a very populare breed for deer and moosehunting in Scandinavia. Many norwegians use it on a leash and I think that's the perfect way to use it in Britain. A elkhound is also a excellent tracking dog.
Norwegian Grey Elkhound is the most populare norwegian elkhound, but there is also a Norwegian Black Elkhound. Unfortunately I think rhere are no dog of that breed in Britain. I think you can find many grey elkhounds in Britain, but most of them are not used for hunting, unfortunately. Breeds should be used for what they are intented for!

Glep.

Having just spent an enjoyable week with various Grey Moose dogs - I have to agree. They are fantastic animal - friendly and willing, only seem to want to please.

My one concern is that they may be a little too vocal and unsteady. In the UK, it is common to leave the dog curled up on a Roe sack at the bottom of a high seat. It should be able to resist the urge to move or alert passing deer - even though the scent is filling its nose, and the deer are only feet away.

You think they may be able to resist that challenge?

Rgds Ian

Not all elkhounds can do that ,but many can, with "proper education". In hunting tests(trial is perhaps the correct word?) for moosedogs on a leash they should be absolutely silent.

My dog, which is a Laika, can sit besides me totally silent until I have shoot a deer.

I'll never use anything other than a lab again!

Mine is a bitch and stalks on foot with me (no lead)about 5 times a week. A lot of my stalking is in big arable fields but even then she is very useful and has learnt to stay in the ditch with me. She will not go into a wounded deer nor will she track for ages. I have her to find dead deer that have run off or near dead deer and as a companion.

I did have a GWP but it wasn't for me. I don't see the pointing as an advantage - a non pointing dog will indicate well by body language and doesn't have to be knocked off point as mine did in order to get closer.

The key to a good deer dog is good training and frequent use.

Thank you for your help and suggestions.

I was fortunate enough to spend a day picking up with a chap who has Wirehaired Viszlas, and was absolutely smitten, so it looks like this will be the way I go.

I would have seriously considered Labs, as my Spanador was a great dog, but unfortunately i seem to be becoming allergic to them. Which is a real shame. Luckily i have managed to blame this on the girl friends jack russel, so it seems i should be allowed carte blanche on my next dog!

sws,

Are there many Wirehaired Viszlas in the country yet??? I was under the impression they were quite rare?

If you do get one, keep us posted on how you get on..A friend had a couple of conventional Viszlars and they worked really well on deer...

Regards,

Pete

Pete

Im in regular contact with a stalker in Glasgow who runs a Wireviz. Now of course he says it's the best dog in the world....... I have to take into account that he may be a bit biased!

If you want any specific info, I would be happy to put you in touch.

rgds Ian

Ian,

I was just curious as whether there were many Wirehaired Vizslas in the country??? Also I don't know their history...are they a relatively new breed or have they been are in Europe a while?

Regards,

Pete

sws,

have you ever thought about a Deutsch Drahthaar?
please do not confuse this breed with a A.K.C./U.K.C./C.K.C. GWP which is a common problem for those who do not understand the breeding concept or hunt test requirement of the Deutsch Drahthaar.

Pete,

These are an old Hungarian breed. They were bred to turn Hares onto a line of waiting guns, so the tracking ability of them is their main strong point. They tend to follow ground scent rather than air scent. for this reason although I have never seen one used on deer I'm fairly sure I'll get one for a deer dog as my next dog. My dad used to breed them in Cyprus where they track hares in much the same way as you would track a wounded deer. When the hare stops the dog points then flushes it. After a hare has been wound up for 40mins by a tracking dog it is a very sporting target!!

We've had about 7-8 vizsla's in the last few years and they are all incredibly loyal and hard working dogs. some had better scenting/tracking abilities but all are keen to please. They work close to you and can be vocal when chasing fur. Chasing Fur would probably be their most difficult habit to stop as that is what they were bred for originally.

I've got some photo's of our two old bitches on point. Remind me to show you next month when you come down.

Incidentally all ours are smooth coated due to the heat in Cyprus, but the wirehaired version is supposed to be exactly the same bar the coat.

Rgds,

I use my Hungarian Viszla to follow up on wounded deer but she definatly air scents compared to the blood-hound. My only problem is steadiness in the cold due to the thin coat so I have stopped stalking fallow with her as she shivers, fidgets and wimpers after 15 minutes. However if I have dropped a deer in a field of high corn she quarters the ground at a terrific speed and so far has been 100% successful on 20 beasts. Before anyone comments the deer mostly fall cleanly or run 50 yards and I let the dog find them for training.
I prefer not to stalk fallow with the dog as their collective eyesight is too good, roes are easier to sneak up on IMHO.

Regards

Mark

sws,

The Bavarian Mountain dog is absolutely the wrong dog for deer stalking. The German name ist
"Bayrischer Gebirgs Schweisshund" that means his dog is only, and really only for searching ffor wounded animals. You have to do this, for its law in Germany.
You need an allrounder. No.1 one is the GWP followed by GSP and GLP. Than Vislar ans Labs.

Burkhard