I did some research on this site and found some discussions on what qualifies a "Good Representative" Roe Deer.

There were two differing opinions...

One said:
400g = Bronze
500g = SIlver
600g = Gold

While another said:
"a 350 gram trophy is a pretty respectable roe. 450 would be darn good, and 500 gram is often considered the "dream measure"

How would would compare the weight (in grams) of a Roe Deer to that of a North American Whitetail deer.

A 150 whitetail would be camparable to what in a roe deer?

Thank you in advance!!!

Hi Bill,

To me a 'good representative' is a six point mature beast, NOT a CIC medal scoring animal.

There is a huge difference between a representative beast & one that scores under CIC measurements.

Walk down a street and you will see many average sized blokes before you run into Arnold Schwarzenegger!

Rgds

Ian

Bob,

I can't answer the question about comparison with a whitetail, other than to say it looks like younare comparing apples and pears!

However,as it was explained to me when I started stalking Roe, a good representative Roe buck is usually considered to be one with a good symetrical pair of not too widely spread six point antlers, with decent colour, pearling and properly developed tines BUT not necessarily of medal class. I don't know much about SCI measuring but European CIC measuring is slightly subjective when it comes to Roe, with some points given for 'beauty', e.g. colour, rather than a straightforward objective length or weight measurement.

If you are seeking a medal quality animal that looks good as a mount, rather than one that lets you say 'Mine's the biggest!', I'd be inclined to look at Silver quality heads. It may be a controversial view but some of the enormous Gold Roe heads are horrible, gnarly, lumpen things that aren't at all attractive but get maximum weights points.

There are also lots of really pretty (a term you can genuinely apply to Roe) smaller heads that have all the right attributes and won't cost you a fortune in trophy fees - as the Continental trophy pricing system gradually leaks into the UK via professional stalkers and agents, the price of bigger Roe trophys is rocketing on many paid outings.

Just my amateur, recreational stalker view of it though...

Adam.

My understanding was that SCI is based more upon inches of horn/antler rather then mass. However, I very rarely measure anything that I shoot, and if I do I use CIC.I'm fortunate enough to have shot three exceptional animals this year, but the memory of the stalk, the surroundings and who I was with our far more important to me then the color of the medal awarded.
That being said, to me a good representative roe is exactly as Ian describes. Although my favourite Roe Buck hanging on my wall is a very odd looking 4 pointer.
Simon

Although by no means a roe expert, I would agree more with the second statement in your post.

A mature 6 point roe with a long impressive head can frequently fall below the medal classification depending on the mass and even the density of its antlers.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Bixby:
While another said: . . . "a 350 gram trophy is a pretty respectable roe. 450 would be darn good, and 500 gram is often considered the "dream measure"

How would would compare the weight (in grams) of a Roe Deer to that of a North American Whitetail deer.

A 150 whitetail would be camparable to what in a roe deer?

Thank you in advance!!!

I would tend to agree with the 350 as a good respectable Roe and in line with a 150 Whitetail. Of course, there are areas with high nutrients etc to make this vary a bit. Like said, there's more to a good looking Buck besides weight, even though weight is what gives them the higher scores, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

quote:

To me a 'good representative' is a six point mature beast, NOT a CIC medal scoring animal.

Ian's spot-on.

If Medal Class Bucks are a goal for someone; then "Go fo it"; although they'll pass up many, many, fine Bucks looking for "point" Heads.

Personally, like Adam & Simon; many of the heads I find attractive (and the hunt for them exciting, too) are the odd-ball, gnarled, less then perfect Bucks. One took me 60 days to find again. He's a 4 pointer on one side & a splayed, thick, low-set fork on the other. Exciting Buck! I coulda shot several other Bucks in that Wood while trying for him but waited for that particular one.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Bixby:
400g = Bronze
500g = SIlver
600g = Gold

If you are interested in medals and measuring trophies, whether a roe trophy scores high enough for a medal depends on its CIC score (with all due respect, forget SCI as far as roe is concerned).

Here is an overview of what score is required for what medal category (at the moment, I can't locate the score method for you):

http://www.eurohunt.co.uk/Hunt...CIC_Trophy_Size.html

It is true, that a part of CIC score is the weight of trophy. However, there are many attributes (number of points, length of main beam, length of points, circumference, colour, perling etc) which also contribute to the score. As roe trophies will differ a lot from location to location, including how heavy trophies of a certain size tend to be, it would be difficult to attempt to equate a particular weight with a medal (i.e. score vale) status. However, if you limit your geographical area of your trophies, one can attempt to make an approximation of what to expect score wise from the trophy weight. Here is one such attempt (and probably more realistic than the one you cited) for the UK:

http://www.cictrophy.com/MeasuringGuide.html

The focus on trophy weight as opposed to trophy score in many (but not all) Continental European countries likely comes from the fact, that the weight is used as an easily verifiable base for the trophy fee. Countries such as Serbia (Croatia and Slovenia??) and the Czech Republic base their trophy fees on CIC score.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Bixby:
"a 350 gram trophy is a pretty respectable roe. 450 would be darn good, and 500 gram is often considered the "dream measure"

This statement is a lot closer to reality in roe hunting - and as you may have noticed, this is also closer to the "weight-medal" approximation I linked above.

I wish I could tell you about all the 500 g bucks I have taken in my 20 years (or so) of hunting. Sadly, reality is that much above 400 g the air gets pretty rarefied. Exceptions to that statement might be found in top spots such as the Southern UK, Southern Sweden or Eastern Hungary. Yet even in these locations, 500 g bucks don't grow on trees.

There is at least one of our UK AR members who has been fortunate enough to take several bucks over the years which would likely exceed the 500 g, and I would not be surprised if another UK member member also falls into that category. What you must also consider, though, is that at least the first member happens to shoot upward of 100 roe a year (does included), and pretty much hunts year round. So, yes it is possible to get lucky if and when you pop over for a weeks worth of hunting, but the chances of a 500 g trophy are still fairly slim.

Hey, how many times have I hunted for mule deer in North America, and although I have researched my locations and not shied away from paying top $$$, have I shot a 200 point mule deer yet?? (I'll leave it up to you to guess the answer to that question... ).

- mike

Thank you all for the replies!

I should have added a little more detail.
I am not looking for a specific medal size.

I am going to Poland next summer for a roe deer hunt. It is hard for me to judge what is or is not a good or respectable "trophy" is.

Where we are going, they charge per gram of antler and top of skull. That is the only reason I listed in grams.

I don't want to go over and kill the biggest or most massive, I want to enjoy the hunt and get a respectable animal. I threw the 150 whitetail out there as it seems to be the line between good and really good deer in the US.

Apologies for the rambling, I just want to prepare as best I can. At home, I live on a farm in Iowa, and it is pretty easy to show my kids pictures of a 120-130-140-150 whitetail. This way when they go out with me they have an idea of what they are looking at.

I really have no idea what a 350 gram roe buck looks like. And the person we are hunting with has a plus/minus 15 percent error rate in his judgment. If he says it is a 350g deer it can vary from basically 300 to 400g and I would have to pay. Not that that is bad, I just want to do my part in researching what that 300-400 rang looks like.

Thanks again everyone!!!

Sounds like a nice trip.

Pretty much any location that has roe can potentially and will produce a monster head from time to time. That to a large degree depends on the hunters of that area exercising discipline and allow bucks to grow old.

That said, even if an area occasionally produces a monster, that is a far cry from making this a reasonable expectation for the area. South Eastern Poland has produced some great bucks in the past. In other parts of Poland, an antler weight of 350 g will probably be a lot more realistic than 400 or even 500 g.

When you look at a roe buck on the hoof, if his neck seems heavy compared to his body, that is an indication of a reasonable age. Young bucks will have a thin neck compared to their bodies, this is the easiest way of estimating age group (young, medium, older). I know, you'll need to look at a couple of bucks to get the idea of what "heavy" and "thin" neck means. But you will likely see multiple bucks on each outing, and your guide will likely be happy to let you know his estimate of the buck's age.

If you are close enough or have the opportunity to watch the buck with high powered optics, the antler coronets (German: "Rosen") are a good indicator. They will flatten out as the buck grows older, and eventually they will change their position from being parallel to the top of the skull to angle away from each other. In German, this is known as "Dachrosen" - or in my imperfect translation: "roof coronets". Our English roe stalkers will fill us in with the correct expression. About 5 years is probably the time for "Dachrosen" to become pronounced, that is a great age for a buck. In Continental Europe, age is the primary criteria for selecting a roe.

A good roe trophy has some mass to its main beams (must be seen from the front, a side view can be deceptive), a lot of perling is very attractive, and 6 points (three on each side) is the classic configuration. If, on top of all that, the antlers are about a width of a hand above the ears of the buck, then SHOOT! It will be a good one!

All of the above said with the understanding that antlers come in such a multitude of configurations, that pretty much any configuration can make for a good buck.

- mike

BOB THIS FELLA IS A BRONZE AND WILL FINNISH AROUND 420 GRAMS.


This one is a 10 inch head and finnished at 385 no medal


Good steady six point trophy of 300 - 320 gram


Big silver 555 grams with excelent volume.



PS ALL THE ABOVE DEER COST £60

quote:

Originally posted by mho:


http://www.eurohunt.co.uk/Hunt...CIC_Trophy_Size.html

http://www.eurohunt.co.uk/Belarus/BelarusOffers.html

hunting in belarus and my klients on the pixs...not so good.

Hi there!

Couple of years ago I shoot this buck which turned out to be a gold medal. The weight ended at 429g and the score was 138 points.

Hi Profyhunter,

All Belorussian pictures on our web site are clients of Krasny Bor “Красный Бор” Interservice LLC, who advertise their hunting packages on our site.

Kind Regards
eurohunt.co.uk

quote:

Originally posted by EuroHunt:
Hi Profyhunter,

All Belorussian pictures on our web site are clients of Krasny Bor “Красный Бор” Interservice LLC, who advertise their hunting packages on our site.

Kind Regards
eurohunt.co.uk

Hello!
Eurohunt!

quote:

Eurohunt provides a comprehensive guide to outdoor hunting in Europe, and aims to offer a range of European hunting trips.

But please without pixs from my clients.
I spoke with Olga today, but she sayd me, that she dont know Convel from UK...

My clients are from Germany.
I know the hunters familiar.

Regards
Igor

Thanks Igor,

If Olga has provided us with a picture she does not have the right to use, we are happy to remove it from our site.

If you can first email us the specific detail to info@eurohunt.co.uk and we will investigate it further with Krasny Bor.

Kind Regards.
eurohunt.co.uk

OK!
But, I think that you are also not glad to be, if on the mine www your clients are to be seen?

I will speak with Olga tomorrow.

Regards
Igor

quote:

Originally posted by mho:


There is at least one of our UK AR members who has been fortunate enough to take several bucks over the years which would likely exceed the 500 g, and I would not be surprised if another UK member member also falls into that category. What you must also consider, though, is that at least the first member happens to shoot upward of 100 roe a year (does included), and pretty much hunts year round. So, yes it is possible to get lucky if and when you pop over for a weeks worth of hunting, but the chances of a 500 g trophy are still fairly slim.

- mike

Not too dissimilar to me. Second best 587g net and 157.75CIC, best still in cape in freezer, third best 134CIC. Averages out at one every 3 years but in the nature of things can go 5 years with nothing to write home about but still great stalking.

Now my first love is malforms - I think I rate my antlered doe higher than most trophies and a peruque would get me shaking like a leaf!

Nice 6 pointers should be achievable with an honest stalker. Stalking in the rut is exciting enough that you shouldn't really care what the antlers are like!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. G:
Hi there!

Couple of years ago I shoot this buck which turned out to be a gold medal. The weight ended at 429g and the score was 138 points.

Lovely buck! I have a similar but non medal head that is different to all other heads in the area. The genes appear to have passed as I have shot some others (all after the rut) that are very similar and always in the same place!

I'm by no means a Roe expert, but the big 6 point silver and gold heads are really stunning and once a beast develops the mass in the main beam of the antler then the length is what really makes a difference. MrG's Roe buck is stunning.

Rgds,
K

MR G was that CIC Gold you got with that head as i have a gold and it was just a gold and its weight was 610 grms
PS LOVELEY TROPHY

Thanks guys! This sure was a great buck. Not many of theese around where I hunt.

SLDG, no this is not CIC gold, its a "scandinavian way" of measuring heads where weight counts most of the points. Volume is not being considered. I believe that I might have reached a higer score with the CIC method considering my low weight. Your buck on the other hand I reckon would give more points the scandinavian way.

That weight 610g, was that the whole scull with the upper jaw? or was the upper jaw cut of before weighing it?

With the upper jaw cut of and a weight of 610g that alone would have given you 152.5 points + points from colour, lenght of left and right beam, etc. You multiply the weight by 0,25 to get the points from your weight. If the weight 610g was from the whole scull with the upper jaw you need to subtract 90g of the weight before multiplying the weigt by 0,25. That would give you 130 points, which means you have a gold trophy only considering the weight

This was a bit off topic, but hope it makes sense

Yes all the weights i have given were for full scull with out lower jaw and dried for 90 days.
Thanks for your answer.

Thats a heavy scull for sure!

Its the one in the middle.

A full CIC trophy measurement guide can be found here:

http://eurohunt.co.uk/resource...urement-Formulas.pdf

Kind Regards

I just had that buck from above measured the Rowland Ward way, and the measure was 11 7/8".

quote:

429g

Dear Mr G a head measured by the CIC at 429g would not make a gold medal normally. But i am not familiar with all the differnt methods of measurement. Can you point me to were the Rowland Ward system is and may i add 117 would be a low silver normally. I am interested in roe heads and they way they are done. Many thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by SLDG:
Dear Mr G a head measured by the CIC at 429g would not make a gold medal normally. But i am not familiar with all the differnt methods of measurement. Can you point me to were the Rowland Ward system is and may i add 117 would be a low silver normally. I am interested in roe heads and they way they are done. Many thanks.

Sure! I'll try to explain as good as I can even though this is a bit of topic regarding the preliminary question. Maybe we can continiue this with a new discussion called "measuring methods"?

That sounds like a good idea also if anyone has a few exaples of the differnt types after measuring. I would like to get a few done by differnt methods and would be will to post a few heads away.