I ran into this interesting post on the German "Wild und Hund" forum. It cites numbers for most used calibers and ammo for moose in 3 of the Scandinavian countries (the remainder don't have moose ). (Note: the material uses the European term for moose: "elk").

I have no idea where the author had these numbers from, or whether they are correct. But I thought they were interesting all the same.

I apologize if I violate any copyrights. There were none listed in the post where I got it from. I thought this should be available to a wider audience - as a contribution to cross border understanding of hunting cultures...

quote:

3. Most common elk rifle calibers in Finland, Norway and Sweden 2006

Finland

• 308 53%
  
• 30-06 23%
  
• 9,3x62 8%
  
• 7,62x54R 3%
  
• 308 Norma 3%
  
• 45/70 2%
  

Norway

• 30-06 33%
  
• 308 29%
  
• 6,5x55 16%
  
• 338 WM 4%
  
• 9,3x62 4%
  
• 375 H&H 2%
  

Sweden

• 30-06 30%
  
• 6,5x55 26%
  
• 308 18%
  
• 9,3x62 9%
  
• 8x57 5%
  
• 9,3x57 2%
  

4. Top 16 elk hunting ammunition in Finland

Year 2004 Finnish hunting magazine collected information of shot elks having antler with ten or more points. 511 elks were reported. Participants were asked to report used ammunition . Result from the feed back was as follows:

• Lapua Mega 146
  
• Lapua Naturalis 85
  
• Sako Hammerhead 81
  
• Sako Super Hammerhead 69
  
• Norma Oryx 33
  
• Sako Powerhead 9
  
• Sako Twinhead 7
  
• Lapua Forex 4
  
• Lapua Mira 2
  
• Norma Vulkan 2
  
• Remington Express 2
  
• RWS Tug 2
  
• Sellier & Bellot 1
  
• Norma Alaska 1
  
• Sako Arrwhead 1
  
• Sako Gamehead 1
  
• Unknown 6
  

- mike

Interesting Post

Seloushunter

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
I thought this should be available to a wider audience - as a contribution to cross border understanding of hunting cultures...
- mike

I just out some data from Slovenia - numbers come from 10 year analysis of dog guides reports on searching wounded big game and they correspond with actuall numbers of different calibers used here (on all big game from roe-bear).

Mouse, those are interesting numbers. I'm pretty sure they would largely match equivalent numbers in Germanic Europe - with a bit of variation from country to country, e.g. the Swiss would use their beloved 7.5x55, but nobody else would...

In particular, the following points seem to stand out when I look at the numbers:

• The 7x64 has totally taken over the slot for 7mm calibers, to the point where the (otherwise perfectly suited) 7x57 is almost non-existant.
  
  
• Except in break-top guns where the 7x57R still features suprisingly prominently. My guess is that up here, the 7x65R and the 8x57IR would come in higher. The 7x57R is primarily seen in older guns up here.
  
  
• The .30-06 seems a lot more popular than the .308. The Finns seem to love their .308, though, and they were never a member of Nato - go figure...
  
  
• The .270 Win is an also-ran (sadly, but possibly sensibly), probably because of the 7x64.
  
  
• Few people use magnums or 9.3's to shoot roe.
  
  
• I would not be surprised to see a higher score for the 6.5x57 in particular in Austria and (possibly) Germany.
  

- mike

Our three ex-army calibers are the most popular and stand their ground, no doubt about that.
But I think ( based on rifles seen at the different ranges I visit), that the bigger calibers got an increasing group of followers.

Perhaps one reason is that more and more Scandinavians travel abroad for hunting big game, both in Africa, USA, Canada and elsewhere these days?

I also belive that the popularity of reloading have made the more "exotic" and magnum calibers more accessible for a bigger group of hunters, and that we will see more of them in the time to come.

interesting post...
but i really thought the .300wm was more popular than the .375H&H.

but what i find the most interesting is that we scandinavians seems to be more "americanized" than the continental europeans when it comes to rifles and cartridges.

(the 6.5x55, 7x57R and 9.3x62 is the only widely used metrics here were i live.
i have never even heard of anyone who owned a 8x57 and certainly not a 7x64, but i know of several who shoots 7mmRM and .338WM ).

i wonder why...

Mouse,

I have a question about the Slovenian numbers. As it's from a list of animals wounded and tracked, wouldn't the lower percentages indicate more effective cartridges? Those would be the ones from which no/little tracking were necessary. I might well be missing an obvious point, however.

The data is correct.
I read the same stats both in the Finnish "Metsastaja" (a publication which everyone with a valid hunting license automatically subscribes to) and the Swedish "Vapentidningen".
I don't remember where the stats came from but is also correlates with the police authorities' data. In all Scandinavian (more correctly here: "Nordic") countries the police issue gun permits so all guns are licensed and therefore the data is accurate.

I've always wondered about the popularity of the .30 as most commonly 180grs bullets are used. As you know, the speed of these is rather high but better results would probably be achieved with 200/220grs and less speed. By this I mean less damage to the meat.
The main explanation to the popularity of the .308 in Finland must be in the old military 7,62x53R (or 54R but we call it 53R) which for all intents and purposes is the same as the .308 the R of course being rimmed. So when the hunters modernize their equipment the .308 is the closest match. We have recently seen a serious decline in the number of the 53Rs due to little ammo being loaded (Sako and Lapua both with one load only) and the guns all being old pre-WWII military weapons. When renewing such a gun there of course is little point to take a 53R and no new guns are chambered for it anymore so it would actually even be impossible. The last gun so chambered was the Valmet (later Tikka) 412/512. The successor of this called the Finnclassic may still be chambered for the round but I'm not quite sure.
The 7mm has really not ever had any following in Finland, nor has the 8mm. I suppose the 8mm would have become more popular if it was called the 8,2mm as it is. You see, many of the 7,62x53Rs were drilled to 8,2mm and if the hunters realized that it's the same bullet as the German 8mm it might have gained a wider following. Not the 8mm sounds like an oddball between the .30 (7,62mm) and 8,2mm.
Furthermore I guess that anything less than 7,62mm is commonly considered too small for elk by the hunters.
On a sidenote, the .45-70 shows on the list as many hunters especially the dog guides like the handling of a lever action in the woods and choose a cheapish Marlin. Combined with the old .45 you then have an excellent elk rifle as the average shooting distance is a mere 42 meters; some 45 yards, so the bullet path has little significance.

The 6,5 in Sweden is, as stated, their old military caliber and therefore popular. Being a perfectly good caliber and not rimmed it is obviously still popular in modern guns, too.
Another reason for this, I think, is the high population of roe in Sweden. Roe of course is rather a small animal the killing of which does not require a heavy caliber. Even shot is used. In Finland roe is a newcomer as is the whitetailed deer and they are far more scarce than elk so there is a bigger need for some more caliber, I think.

As we discussed under the 6,5mm thread, there are some good reasons to use fairly light calibers. They are low in recoil and thus easy to shoot accurately. Additionally, if the hunter shoots a light(ish) caliber he is more likely to take better aim as he realizes that he needs a good hit for a one-shot kill, not relying on power alone.

Laterly I have seen the 9,3x62 gain in popularity but most still stick to the .30s. When discussing this most users refer to the cost of ammo (?) and secondly they consider the .30 to be plenty powerful - which, of course, it is. The third reason is that the more powerful calibers (i.e. 9,3 et.al.) allegedly cause more damage to the meat which is not true; but old wives' tales die hard.

Interestingly, with the heavy growth of the bear population we now have every year incidents where the hunter in self defense shoots and wounds a bear.
I realize that in a sudden situation you might take a poor shot, but also few hunters are familiar with the bear's rather small kill zone and the use of a .30 is probably not the wisest as it has little stopping power. Wider use of the 9,3 might improve on the situation. But this is only my own armchair theory which I freely admit and expressly point out.
I have no stats as to the bear hunters' caliber choices. Some 80 bears have been shot annually in recent years which explains few hunters actually being familiar with the animal. In comparison, some 80.000 elk are shot annually.

Schauckis
Interesting read, and I follow you a long way.

Also your comment about Scandinavia versus the Nordic countries.
The Scandinacian countries is Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and when we add Iceland and Finland, we have the five Nordic "swans"

Abouth the widespread use of 6,5x55, 308Win and 30-06 Spr at least in Norway, the main reason is that they all are our former army calibres.
The 6,5 Krag / 6,5x55 and the 308Win has been / still are our big bore competition calibres as well.
Both training (ball) ammo and soft points are to be bought at most shooting ranges, and as such, they are easely accessible for the big percentage of moose and red deer hunters that do not reload.

Among those who reload, and with an interest above average in guns and ammo, the use of more powerfull and "exotic / odd" calibers are rising.

We have had a discussion on local internet sites and in local gun magazines about the advantage of medium and big bore calibers vesus the standard 6,5 /30. on moose and red.
No concensus was reached as expexted, but I have the impression that 9,3-62, the 7 mm,30 and 338 magnums see more and more use.
The 375 H&H, 458 Winmag and the different Weatherby calibers also has a group of faithful followers.

As mentioned by Steffen, I have the same impression that the Norwegians at least, are more "Americanized" regarding their guns and ammo then hunters on continental Europe and the UK and Ireland
The increasing bear population might also have an influence when one is deciding which new moose gun to buy.

I at least, se no disadvantage lugging eighter my 35 Whelen or the 338 Winmag to the woods, quite the oposite

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
Mouse,

I have a question about the Slovenian numbers. As it's from a list of animals wounded and tracked, wouldn't the lower percentages indicate more effective cartridges? Those would be the ones from which no/little tracking were necessary. I might well be missing an obvious point, however.

Jaywalker - data (1831 samples) also include missed and presumambly missed shots on big game that were verified with dogs + almost 1/3 of wounded game are hits in the legs and grazing shots where caliber don't play a major role.

Thanks, Arild; I didn't know that also Norway used the 6,5mm as military caliber.
I should have remembered the 6,5 Krag but I tend to think only of the 30/40 Krag. Shame on me, having been to the museum in Kongsberg and all!

Another reason for the popularity of the mags in Norway might be the longer shooting distances in the mountains. Or what do you think?
In the same statistics as the 42m as the average elk shooting distance in Finland was mentioned there were also the Swedish and Norwegian averages but I cannot remember them. They were fairly short, too, in the same 42m bracket as the Finnish average.

I had a discussion about the calibers with a hunting buddy when pig hunting in Estonia this winter. He uses a 9,3 for elk and pigs, but was of the opinion that roe will "explode" if shot with the 9,3mm. Therefore he uses a smaller caliber for roe but I cannot remember if it was a .30 or smaller. Honestly, I have not enough experience in shooting smaller game than elk to be able to comment on that.

Schauckis.
The 6,5 Krag was an joint venture between Sweden and Norway as we where in union at the time of development ( or put another way, Denmark lost Norway to Sweden after the ending of the Napoleon wars)

I have hunted roe with 22-250, 243 Win and 308 Win, and in my experience the 165 gr in 308Win is the best regarding minimum meat damage.
I have also shot roe with my 35 Whelen, but one single beast don´t make any statistics.
The meat loss was no worse than any shot with the 308W though.

About shooting distance on moose, I understand that the Finns, Swedes and Norwegians hunt moose wery much the same way.
Eighter with dog on lash or loose baying, or driven against a line with stand hunters.
In eighter case shooting distance tends to be short.

On the other hand, I have hunted moose up north for some years, and in the more open highland terrains, shots could easely be longish.
On our team of five hunters we had two 375 H&H, one 338 Winmag, one 308Win and me with eighter 35 Whelen or 338 Winmag.
Not very typical collection of guns on a Norwegian moose team I would say

I have never hunted rein deer, so others might chime in and fill in there.

In Sweden the shooting distance to Moose is all depending on the area that is being hunted.

In the larger parts of Sweden a shot at 70 meters is a long one, mostly cause there is just too much trees in the forrest and the way for longer shots than so.

In more agcricultural parts and in the north od Sweden ie the fjälls the ranges tend to get longer, a lot longer.

The shortest shot my farther has spoken about was a 7 meter shot, the longest a 180 meters shot, he has taken 43 moose so far.

Most hunters I know of use the (un)holy trinity 6,5x55, 308 Win, 30-06.

Personaly I like to use 9,3 mm based rounds for moose hunting and or most driven hunts, they give better report in stresses game.

In my hunting team currently the members deploy 375 H&H, 9,3x62, 308 Win, 6,5x55, 300 Win mag and 30-06 all depending on game and time of year.

Best regards Chris