I am looking at a Leupold with a Mil Dot for 500-1000 yard rig. I will mostly be shooting paper, but will bring it out every so often for longer range prairie dogs. Normally at the range I shoot 1/2 MOA squares (3" squares at 600 yards, 2.5 @ 500 etc.)

Think the Mil Dot will cover up too much of the paper or prairie dog targets?

Any help is appreciated.

I have only been using MIL dots in the field for the last month or so. But I have been practicing all winter in anticipation of this summer's woodchuck wacking.

Here's my take on the subject.
For any target at extended range the MIL subtension is going to be very small, and the smaller the subtension the greater the potential for error. The math is based on the Tangent function and the smaller the angle the greater the accuracy in reading the MIL dots required.
for example: with a 3" target, at .2MILS (the dia of a dot) the yarage would be 417 yards, if you miss read and the target is really .15 MIL the yardage is 555.

My scope is set up so the reticule is in the second plane (target gets bigger in relation to xhairs as the power is increased). I made a barber pole and calibrated my power ring so that I can set my power ring repeatably to give the correct MIL scaling. I have enough range above this power to set a second calibration point that doubles my resolution for reading the MILs subtended. I do the math as normal (acctually I just use my mildot master )then double the yardage.
What this effectivly does is enable me to cut the normal .1 divisions into .05 divisions. Or double the presicion of the MIL dot. I have never read of this method anywhere else or heard of using the MIL dots like this, but it works great for me.

Heres another example. 10" woodchuck at 1x resolution measures some where around .5 MIL. If we go with .5 MIL, the target is 555 yards away.
But becuase there's alot of open space in that .5MIL area its hard to get a really accurate reading. Lets double the resolution.
Now the furry little bugger is reading 1.1MIL. The card says thats 252yards, now double it for 504 yrds. I just eliminated a 50 yard error. At 500 yards, a 50 yard error is a miss on a woodchuck.

The flip side of this is you absolutly have to have an accurate target measurement. Lets say the woodchuck is really 11 inches high. Using the example from above he's really at 555 yards. So I missed him anyway. I have never met a woodchuck that will let me measure him before I shoot him, so taking out any amount of error is a good thing, and the only thing I can control is the accuracy in which I can read the MIL dots.

Hopfully Rick 0311 will chime in on this one, he has years more expiriance with this. I'm just figuring it out as I go.

Hello halvey,
As pointed out by Rusty Marlin the mil dot system is somewhat cumbersome for many sport/hunting shooters and most useable in military applications. There are numerous books, manuals, "mildot master, etc. out there to aide in using the system, but believe you would be better off with a good range finder and then learn or know the bullet flight, "come ups" in moa for your particular cartridge.
Not sure what caliber you will be using, loads, etc., but a graph of the bullet path can be easily determined and then simply crank the elevation drum accordingly. Might consider 50 yard increments and hope your range finder will read accurately enough to fit in that margin of error. Groundhog, squirrel, vermin, etc. is small target at extreme ranges and probably the best thing you can say about them is that they do not shoot back if missed!! Elevation will be the easy part compared to the wind estimation. There are formulas known and used to help in wind drift problems and could advise if desired.
Rule of thumb for elevation: With 100 yard zero, add 3 moa per 100 yards out to and including the 700 yard mark. That gives you some 21 moa elevation adjustment and for 800 I always added 4 more moa and then 5.5 more for each additional 100 yards out to the 1000 yard mark. That gives you some 36 moa total to get on at 1000 yard mark. Again, rule of thumb only for most 308 performance class cartridges will take closer to 40 moa to reach the 1000 yard mark. If you are using small 224/ 6mm cartridges and not using the heavier bullets, performance will be spotty at best at the 1000 yard mark. Other problem is that the heavier bullets will require different twist than most sporter type barrels. Mfg.'s know that velocity sells guns!! Check the load/caliber being used and see if terminal velocity at 1000 yards is greater than 1200 fps. If not, you have a problem. ( After 600 yards, different world of shooting shows up quickly. ) That hyper velocity and ultra light bullets will not do much for you at extreme ranges. Got to have some "mass" for long range work, speed alone will not get it done. Again, if you want some wind dope, let me know and good luck.

i don't really use the mildot as a range estimating tool, but use the dots as aiming point on PD's. best advice I can give is to use a six oclock hold with the dots, otherwise they do cover up to much

The part that matters most is where the crosshairs intersect. What amount of area do they subtend? I prefer the fine duplex for Pdogs, but am always open to improvement.

Well I love my Mil-Dot scopes but they are used differently, my LR rig I range targets which most are a set 12" - 36" but on the pasture poodles I pretty much use them as reference point. Reason is that a full grown p-dog next to a young pup if you mess up and range a target that you think is say 6" and it's 8" your gonna miss! but if you have a dog out there in the 500 yard neighborhood you take a shot and watch the impact say a Mil off right and 2 Mil low now you have a reference point for your next shot, most p-dogs at that range will give you several chances to get everything figured out. I had one dog sit on top of a mound while I finally got everything figured out and I'm not gonna say how many times I shot but with the Mil-Dots I finally got it all figured out! it was a way out there but even with the Mil-Dots it's not a sure thing but anything helps. Later,

Kirk

i have been using mil dots for over 15 plus years I shoot a lot of p dogs with them. Once you get use them they help in making longer shots easier.

Well said PDS. Mil-dots r simply another form of ballistic reticle, that was developed as a ranging reticle. I've found most ballistic reticle compensation is good to about 500-600-maybe 700 yds. when trajectory begins to get steeper, then it's onto clicks from there. If i have a repeatable turret system that'll get me out there aways, i apply the reticle for windage compensation and turret for elevation. This way i don't have to try and aim off the vertical axis too much as range increases.

Not to be a contrarian, but I actually find preference for some kind of scale reticle. Either Mil Scale (Like Horus) for metric scope, or MOA scale for those with like knobs.

Big advantages are numerous, but here are a couple:

1. higher resolution (2 moa with MOA scale)makes adjustments using reticle easier. You can for example measure angle at sight in an immediately adjust zero. 3 or 4 shot zeroing process are normal.

2. Come ups using scale are faster than continuously adjusting knobs. (and easier on equipment)

3. Field adjustments for follow-up shots are fast if you can see the point of impact, you can measure effects of wind, mirage, etc and compensate immediately for these effects.

Here below is a US Optics MOA Scale reticle:

halvey -- What cal are you shooting? I have found that the Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT with the Varmint Reticle works very well on the little critters. Both in elevation and windage adjustments. Paired with a good range finder, it's much quicker and in most instances very accurate. If the little beggers move a few yards you don't have to start you calcs. over again..... My eyes are getting older and I have a hard time staying on the dots.....

Just a thought......

Well, I decided to skip the Mil dot route for the time being. I found a deal on another scope so I didn't have to make the decision.

I use a .223 with a 8.5-25 Leupold and fine duplex for long shots and a .308 with the same scope for farther out shots.

Great Pick -- wished I had another

I was trained by the military to use mil-dots and have several scopes with them installed. I've used them for many many years. Saying this, my favorite reticle in my Leupolds (6.5-20s and 8.5-25s) is the fine duplex. I use a Leica 1200 rangefinder so that eliminates one problem. As a personal item, I prefer uncluttered reticles, but may buy one of the new Leupolds with the varmint reticle. Looked at the Burris Ballistic reticule, but it didn't do that much for me.

I also like the VH reticle. Mine's in a 4.5-14X VX-III/tgt. elevation turret, on a Savage Striker 243 WSSM. I also like the look of the Horus sytems-- but don't have that kind of $ to go for it. I know they win a lot of practical riflery matches.

For a given ammo, barrel length, distance to zero, and separation of barrel and scope lines, there is a simple chart of distance vs drop from point of aim.

But for wind, there are too many varibles for a single chart:
1) wind speed
2) wind direction relative to shot
3) distance.

As an expample of the problem, a 15 mph cross wind might deflect .5" at 50 yards and 2" at 100 yards [notice that it is non linear], but one over the the square root of 2 times that if the wind is at 45 degrees to the shot.

What does it all mean?
Distance is so easy you don't need target knobs or mil dots.
Wind is so hard, you won't know what to do with target knobs or mil dots.