Hello everyone, I'm new in here, first post.

I bought a custom built heavy barreled 6mm-284 on a Rem 700 action, my first 6mm and first real wildcat. I got a few rounds with it loaded light with 65 gr V-max bullets, I shot a few groups with them and they dont shoot bad but nothing that impressed me. That little 65 is so short they are jumping a mile to get to the lands, I dont like that much and I think it needs a heavier bullet anyway. My plan is to try loading the 80 gr Nosler BT and the 86 gr V-max, I may shoot some 75's too but only if it dont like the others. The first powder im going to try is RL-22, I may also try H4831, it seems alot of 6mm-284's like those powders.

Is anyone in here varmiting a 6mm-284 or any big 6 I guess? If so I'd like to hear your opinions on my ideas, any input is welcome.

I also shoot a 6x284 same action as you. My twist rate is 1 in 12 and the 70 gr. noslers work the best for me. I use the H4831 SC powder and CCI LR magnum primers. I'm impressed with the rifle and its a coyote killer for sure. Not too fur friendly but sure knocks them down. This is the most accurate rifle I own. The biggest downside to this rifle is the wind. Out to 200-300 yds. not a problem but at 600-1000 it is a real trick to get on target. I hope you like the rifle. Good luck.

Right now I see this a prairie dog only rifle/load, Im looking to shoot in the 500-800 yard range , if it treats me good at 800 I'm sure I will try to stretch its legs a little farther. I do want to stay away from the (match) type VLD bullets alot of guys shoot, to me a varmit gun should be able to kill and clean a P-dog at the same time not just poke a hole.

I just checked, the twist rate is a 1 in 14. A little slower than I was hoping for but should work out fine for the varmit bullets I want to shoot.

I've found the 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip to be a great varminting bullet in both .243 and 6mm Rem. While the 80 grain in the same bullet is fine, you don't get enough gain in B.C. to give it much advantage.

If you like the Sierra line, their 70 grain Blitzking shoots interchangably in my guns with the Nosler B.Tip. Same powder charge, same POI.

No flies on the Hornady VMaxes, either. Try the 75 grainer.

RL-22 and H-4831 are good starting choices. I don't find that magnum primers provide any advantage in this size case, but they won't hurt (anything other than your bank account), either.

With this 1 in 14 barrel I may have to stick in the 70-75gr range, I still want to try those 87gr V-max's claiming .400 BC, if they shoot good it should be one hell of a long range varmit load.

I shoot the 87 Vmax from my 243 win. I like it's performance on p dogs out to about 600, which is as far as I've stretched it. I'm running a 8" twist barrel, which is more than I need for the 87's, but I don't know if you're 14" twist would have an issue?

I'm running H 4831sc in my 6.5x284 and Fed match primers. I like the accuracy. I'm shooting 139 Lapua scenars currently, but have also shot the 140 Berger vld's very well. True, at long range they pencil through, but I haven't really noticed any crawl offs. I've heard from friends and other shooters that the Amax is more reactive, like a Vmax, but I have not tried them. It's hard to mess with a good recipe.

My bullets and brass came in yesterday, im going to work up a few test batches with RL-22, 80gr noslers and the 87gr V-max, hopefully try them out next week.

I've got a 700 Sendero rebarreled with a Shilen 1:10 twist in 6mm Rem, 27" long. With 49 gr of either IMR 4831 or R-19 it shoots moly-coated 87 V-maxes at 3450 fps. I can't imagine needing anything more than this for any varmint. The .400 BC on that 87 Vmax is for real! I've made 7 verified chuck kills over 1000 yds, some on the first shot with this combo. The next best thing is the 75 V-max with it's .330 BC; with your rate of twist, why not try it with some Reloader-19 and see what happens? The Nosler 70 BT is also a fine choice for a lighter bullet load. Good luck with your 6mm-284!

I thought RL-19 was a little fast for the 87gr that I want to shoot, but with the 70 or 75 I think it may be a better choice, I have this feeling that my barrel wont like the 87's anyway. Just have to wait and find out.

I haven't shot too many lighter bullets, I bought the rifle for antelope. It's also a Remington 700, a rechambered heavy-barreled 243. I mostly shoot 85-grain Noslers of one or the other persuasion with a medium load, mostly get about 1/2 inch groups. It will not stabilize 117-grain VLDs, they keyhole.

I had a buddy who was a gunsmith, now retired. When the 6mm/.284 came out he went NUTS. Loved it. Would build one and some one would wave cash at him and he was off building another. I know of a dozen or so. Practically all he shot was IMR 4350. After one build he gave me a half dozen empty cans (I am a pack rat who pretends to collect...) Maybe 10. He would dip the case full and seat a varmint weight bullet and go shoot the thing. I recall he had some 70 grain Hornadys that he said a Chrony reported to be traveling at 3900 fps. Load not over warm for him and I saw him mike case heads. Yes, I ended up with a 6mm/.284. Haven't shot it that much. Loud. Costs. I don't imagine the barrel will last that long. (Douglas XXX). I wish you well as long as you don't seek long barrel life. With the slower twist, remember the round noses can be a lot heavier which means more thump at range and still stabilize, but harder to find. Yes, they will drop faster. Good luck. Happy trails.

Yes, I know its going to be a powder/barrel eater, but I've excepted that fact and its just the price I'm gonna have to pay to play.

Right now my issue is with brass forming, I bought a box of Lapua 6.5/284 just to eliminate variables in the (sketchy) brass I got with the gun. Now the die set (that came with the gun) isn't performing like I think it should. Its a Redding Competition Series, I have a body die, a body/neck die w/bushing, and a seating die. Redding tells me I need to run them through the Body die first, then the B/NK die. The body die only takes the neck down .005 but I guess its something. The B/NK die does a decent job of necking down but doesnt take it all the way to the shoulder, I'd say its about .040 from doing the job right. The mic head on the die has travel left but the die bottoms out internally.

I need to start making brass!!

Have one myself, but use it only for looooong shots. Am using as the lightest bullet, any of the plastic tipped 87-95 grainers. The Hornady 105gr, though, is used the most. My rifle has a 1-8" twist to handle these lengthy bullets. Myv objective? To join the 1,000 yd club!

Ok, here is what I did.

87gr Vmax, 51gr H4831sc. Would not stabilize, going through paper sidways.

80gr Nosler, 52gr H4831sc. Same, oval holes.

75gr V-max 53,54,55Gr H4831sc. Liked 53gr best with a .750 5 shot, (needs more tweaking, will shoot again)

Old load-old brass, 65gr V-max, 48.5gr Win 760. Shot two 5-shot groups, first with a clean cold bore .800 but .575 minus first fouling shot, second group was .350 5 shot. (Must shoot again)


This barrel is really liking the light bullets, if thats what it wants I'm not going to fight it. I will buy some 65's and load them and the 75's with some different powers next.

Brass notes, I think I better turn the necks on my new brass, a bullet will not easily slide into a shot case, maybe causing bullet release issues.

Just to update, I did get the 75gr V-max's down in the .500 range with 54gr of H4831sc. I'm running out of time to do much more testing so I think thats going to be my load for this year.

P-dog shooter:

Sorry to say, my experience tends to confirm that a 1:14" twist is way too slow for heavy weight 6mm bullets. This is born out by the fact that the heavier/longer bullets are printing keyholes. Not much you can do about it now, except replace the barrel. Other than that, limit your use to lighter bullets or those that perform in a 1:14" twist. In my 1:14" twist 6mm PPC rifle I found that the heaviest bullet with good accuracy is the 70 grain Sierra HP match. When I tried the 62 grain lead free Barnes Varmint Grenade in the 1:14" twist (a bullet that is .975" long, while the 85 grain Sierra BTHP is .950") it didn't just keyhole, it missed the entire target at 100 yards by about four feet in any direction. So I tried another barrel in 1:10" twist for the same bullet, but while it was sufficiently accurate, under 1 MOA, it wasn't what I was looking for. I used the barrel twist calculator here: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi to confirm the twist rate needed for any given bullet weight/length at various velocities. When I had a barrel chambered for the .243 WSSM in a Brux 1:8" twist that same 62 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade grouped in the .2's and low .3's at 3,580 fps or greater.

The actual cartridge case used isn't as important as matching the twist to the weight and length of the bullet. With the correct twist any given bullet will be stable over a wider range of velocities. Remember that a bullet slows down and as it does so the BC and stability changes, dropping off with range. I have been building rifles with much faster twists lately to accommodate lead free bullets, and have found that these quicker twists also do exceptionally well with lead core bullets.

Also check here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/P...rmint%20Bullets.html as Berger Bullets lists the recommended minimum twist for each of their varmint bullets. The 60 gr Match Grade FB Varmint bullet is recommended for a 1:14" twist.

Im fine with the 75's I think, maybe not for a 800-1000 yd poke but I dont see me seriously trying that this year..... I may throw a few out that far just for kicks but I will be really surprised if any connect. I would need the groups to shrink down quite a bit to really play at that range anyway. The way I see it, I have a nice 300-600yd rifle with potetial to go farther and I'm happy with that.

quote:

Remember that a bullet slows down and as it does so the BC and stability changes, dropping off with range.

Not sure what to read into that.

Whilst I agree in general that BC reduces with velocity
The dynamic between down range velocity & projectile rpms is very different .
ie
downrange velocity declines at a much, much faster rate than projectile RPMs .
The gyroscopic stability effect is that stability increases downrange.

Playing with inputs into a stability program to maintain a constant projectile rpm at different velocities identifies the strength of this effect, in consideration that:-
- velocity declines relatively rapidly down range
-BC declines relatively slowly downrange
- projectile rpms decline very, very slowly downrange.
as a result .........stability increases downrange.
eg
downrange at 60% muzzle velocity the stability is roughly double the ex-muzzle stability.

Missing the target by 4 feet?? Wow, thats not what mine did at all. The 87gr V-max had the most oval/keyhole holes, if I had to guess, they were going through at a 45 degree angle or something, even that far out of stability it still shot a 4.5" 5-shot group. The 80gr Nosler BT went through at less of an angle, maybe 20 degrees and shot a 10" or so 5-shot. I had a thought that maybe if I leaned on them harder they might stabilize but I dont really want to do that either. Any other gun that I've tried to push hard the accuracy has gone to hell.

quote:

Originally posted by DenisB:

quote:

Remember that a bullet slows down and as it does so the BC and stability changes, dropping off with range.

Not sure what to read into that.

Whilst I agree in general that BC reduces with velocity
The dynamic between down range velocity & projectile rpms is very different .
ie
downrange velocity declines at a much, much faster rate than projectile RPMs .
The gyroscopic stability effect is that stability increases downrange.

Playing with inputs into a stability program to maintain a constant projectile rpm at different velocities identifies the strength of this effect, in consideration that:-
- velocity declines relatively rapidly down range
-BC declines relatively slowly downrange
- projectile rpms decline very, very slowly downrange.
as a result .........stability increases downrange.
eg
downrange at 60% muzzle velocity the stability is roughly double the ex-muzzle stability.

You are correct. What I was intimating is that BC is a dynamic range not an absolute value as range increases. For example the Sierra GameKing #1530 6mm 85 grain HPBT bullet is listed with a BC of .311 at 1800 fps and faster, a BC of .304 between 1800 and 1500 fps, and .205 at 1500 fps and below. For many varmint hunters the quest for a high BC bullet is the holy grail, yet this number is not a guarantee of long range performance in a given barrel if rotational stability isn't there. If the bullet is unstable at the muzzle things aren't going to improve as range increases, as evidenced by oblong target strikes. That is the basis for using a stability calculator. This is especially true with lead free powdered metal core bullets, where it seems to be more important to use a twist rate fast enough to develop rotational stability. As a practical matter, I found long light lead free bullets with a relative low BC, such as the 62 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade, with a BC of .199, accurate and effective beyond expectations at ranges up to 350 yards, the limit of my terrain. The majority of my experimentation is done with lead free bullets due to state requirements, and represents firing experience under field conditions. In many cases, I have found barrel twist rates used as standard practice are too slow to provide the greatest accuracy with the widest range of bullet types, core material and weights. Results from inputting data into the stability calculator have mirrored my actual load development experience, saving considerable aggravation. We are in ballistic heaven with high BC bullets driven at rotational speeds and velocities sufficient to maintain stability over the entire range, something easier to accomplish with lead cores. Which is one reason lead free zones should be strongly opposed. But then I could be incorrect.

quote:

Originally posted by P-dog shooter:
Missing the target by 4 feet?? Wow, thats not what mine did at all. The 87gr V-max had the most oval/keyhole holes, if I had to guess, they were going through at a 45 degree angle or something, even that far out of stability it still shot a 4.5" 5-shot group. The 80gr Nosler BT went through at less of an angle, maybe 20 degrees and shot a 10" or so 5-shot. I had a thought that maybe if I leaned on them harder they might stabilize but I dont really want to do that either. Any other gun that I've tried to push hard the accuracy has gone to hell.

My experience has been the same as yours, just a bit more extreme. The 6mm bullets shown below are, left to right: Sierra 70 gr MatchKing HPBT(molly coated), Bart's 66 grain FB (molly coated) and Barnes 62 gr Varmint Grenade. The Sierra and Bart's bullets shot normal accurate groups from a 1:14" twist 6mm PPC Sako L-461 Benchrest Single Shot rifle. The Barnes was the bullet that wouldn't hit the target by four feet and when I finally did get one to impact it was completely side-on.



The difference is that the Barnes is just a tad longer than the other two and lighter. That particular bullet could not be driven faster than the other two due to case capacity. Shooting the bullet in a Barnes recommended 1:10" twist made specifically for the purpose improved accuracy with the same load, but still nowhere near what one would expect from the 6mm PPC or that delivered by the other two bullets. I then cut the throat longer to allow seating the Barnes to near the bottom of the neck, instead of into the shoulder, which increased case capacity and velocity, but with no significant improvement. Then, as I mentioned, a 1:8" twist barrel, as confirmed by the twist calculator, chambered for the .243 WSSM was tried. That did the trick, it may have worked for the 6mm PPC, but my barrel budget was depleted for the year so I opted for a similarly shaped cartridge with greater case capacity, hence the WSSM. This formula for faster than normally accepted barrel twists has worked for me with other cartridges. IMHO, there is nothing to be gained from driving the 87 gr V-Max faster, it likely won't help. Quite a few .204 Ruger shooters also have problems with the heavier Hornady bullets in the standard 1:12" twist, possibly due to the Hornady's profile. I would recommend trying such bullets as the Nosler 6mm 55 gr Ballistic Tipped Varmint and other lighter offerings and see if accuracy improves. I really hope you get that rifle shooting to your satisfaction.

Holy hell, a 55gr B-tip in front of a 6mm-284, what do ya think that bullet will take velocity wise?