Wolf kills frustrate Avon rancher
By EVE BYRON - IR Staff Writer - 03/16/05

AVON — Last weekend, Tim Quigley found a calf that had been attacked by a wolf in his pasture, less than a half-mile from his house. When the calf died a few days later, it was the second confirmed wolf kill in 10 days; neighboring rancher Earl Stucky had a calf killed in a pasture less than a quarter mile from his home last week.

State and federal officials approved setting a trap. On Tuesday morning, it held a wolf.

A few hours later, Quigley watched in disbelief as the trap was opened and the wolf was set free.

"That's pretty damn frustrating for the ranchers," Quigley said. "The wolves come in, get my calf, we catch it and they turn it loose. Watching it lope across my meadow, knowing it's going to be back among my cattle — I'm kind of a quiet guy, but this really gets me going."

Kraig Glazier, a district wildlife supervisor for the U.S. Department of Agriculture, empathizes with the frustration that Quigley, Stucky and other ranchers are experiencing. He noted that one recent study showed that for every confirmed calf kill by wolves, there's anywhere from five to eight unconfirmed kills.

Carolyn Simes, wolf program coordinator for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, also shares their frustration. But a recent federal court ruling has limited the options in dealing with problem wolves, even as canis lupis transitions from federal to state oversight in Montana.

In April 2003, wolves were downlisted from an endangered to a threatened species in the northern portion of Montana, and were managed as such for 1½ years, Simes said. But in January, a federal court judge in Oregon ordered that the wolf's nationwide listing be reinstituted as endangered — except in the experimental population areas surrounding Yellowstone and in Minnesota. The reclassification limits how conflicts with wolves are handled, including when the use of lethal force is allowed.

What that means to ranchers like Quigley and Stucky is that even if they see a wolf kill a cow, they can't shoot the wolf. Instead, they have to pick up the telephone and call either a state or federal official connected with the wolf program.

At this point, the endangered listing doesn't even allow ranchers to harass wolves that chase livestock by using rubber bullets or shooting over their heads, Simes said.

"I certainly understand from their perspective why that's not a good deal; I would have to agree that it's much better to harass the wolves than to pick up the phone and call us," she said. "But that doesn't mean there can't be active management, which is why we're looking at trying to remove up to two animals up there. But under the endangered status, private citizens' flexibility pretty much disappeared."

State and federal officials have decided that two of the four wolves in the pack around Avon will be shot. The other two wolves will be allowed to remain free, barring future livestock depredation.

If the depredation continues, they'll consider removing the entire pack.

"But it isn't to that point right now," Glazier said.

Simes said she hopes that being trapped was a traumatic enough experience for the one wolf — a radio-collared female — to make her avoid the area in the future.

"We have had some instances where captured animals that were released never come back, so it may have been a negative enough experience that she never returns," Simes said.

When lethal means are authorized, the priority is to kill the males, since females reproduce and the overall goal is to re-establish wolves in Montana. That was one reason the female wolf trapped on Quigley's property was turned loose. In addition, her collar will help officials track the rest of the pack.

"I would think that even without the reclassification, we would have set her free," said Ed Bangs, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service gray wolf recovery coordinator. "You don't want to kill your eyes and ears, and I can't believe they would want us to shoot the only radio-collared wolf in the pack."

Instead, the plan is to go after the pack's large male, which migrated to Avon from about 50 miles north of the Canadian border. That wolf is known to have run with a pack that had a history of livestock depredation, Simes said.

But she noted that the female that was captured also has a checkered past. She's the lone survivor of the Halfway pack, which was eliminated in 2003 along with the Castlerock pack after a full-grown cow and bull were killed on two ranches in the Avon area.

"We're trying to use an incremental approach, trying to take out the problem animals," Simes said. "Wolves that kill livestock are a problem, and is not something we want to see perpetuated. But we want to target the problem animals and move on from there."

Ranchers can take preventive actions, like penning animals at night or additional monitoring of their herds, but Quigley said that's not a realistic option.

"Most of the time we turn our cattle out into the hills in the summer, and we might get there a couple times a week if we're lucky," he said. "And we're calving now, and these wolves were within a half mile of our house, attacking livestock."

Quigley said his cattle are incredibly nervous these days, even in pastures close to their home. And while he appreciates the constraints under which state and federal officials are operating, he's still not sure what he'll do if the wolves return to prey on his cattle.

"We've gone through the legal process and look where it's got us," Quigley said. "They can only do what their bosses will let them do. … It's almost like they're going to make criminals out of us."

Simes said they're in the process of trying to work out some options that provide more flexibility under the federal court ruling, and are being aided in that by Montana's congressional delegation and the governor, as well as representatives from other states affected by the court order.

But while that effort is under way, she asks that when people do see wolves, they contact the nearest Fish, Wildlife and Parks office.

"It's that kind of information that helps us figure out what's going on out there," she said. "It's very helpful to us as we actively transition from federal management to state management."

Reporter Eve Byron can be reached at 447-4076 or eve.byron@helenair.com.

People bitch and moan about wolfs, yet they won't shoot them. I know what I would do.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcatcher223:
People bitch and moan about wolfs, yet they won't shoot them. I know what I would do.

If it were depredating on MY livestock,unless it had a radio collar on it,the "Three S rule" would apply...

Hey Sharpsman,

How man cows you run?

TD

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsman:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcatcher223:
People bitch and moan about wolfs, yet they won't shoot them. I know what I would do.

If it were depredating on MY livestock,unless it had a radio collar on it,the "Three S rule" would apply...

What radio collar? I didn't see any radio collar...

Oh wait, what wolf? I didn't see any wolf...

we have 250 head of heffers on our place in Nebraska and we have recently come into finding that Mt. Lions are now present, this winter we found half a calf up in a tree. the Freakin Neb game and parks said it was yotes.....I was like COME ON, my father, a Doctor, said that is bull S#@! anyways, it is illegal to kill hte Mt Lions in Nebraska unless in self defense, but i tell you what, if I find one, its going to be self defense, of the heffers, they are not cheep and Nebraska doesnt have the nice clause where if a cow goes down the govt will reimburse us, at least the Cattlemen who lose livestock can get the market value back for it! Its like were living in california in Nebraska in terms of the Lions, its ridiculous!

Cold,

As an Oklahoma rancher's son myself ,I agree completely.

Use the "Three S" rule..

Shoot,Shovel and Shutup..

In otherwords KILL IT,BURY IT and DON'T TELL A SOUL about it!!!

Correct!

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsman:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcatcher223:
People bitch and moan about wolfs, yet they won't shoot them. I know what I would do.

If it were depredating on MY livestock,unless it had a radio collar on it,the "Three S rule" would apply...

Lots of armchair quarterbacking as usual..... The rancher in question was interviewed by the local paper, do you expect him to come out and say such things? Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. However, if you read close enough you may find what pleases you.

im not talking the talk, or being an arm chair anything all im saying is IF I GET THE CHANCE, I havent yet, but if a Mtn Lion or wolf for that matter shows up, I will do everything in my power to place it in my pickup bed !

S,S,S, started in N.MN. a long time ago.. We took care of the dogs up there, and it is time for the ranchers to start out here.. The collars come off easy. It is the implanted radios that you have to watch out for, they are under the skin on the abdomen.they come out too!! Beat both collars and radios on a rock and they stop working real quick..It's too bad but something has to be done with this out of control population of wolves in western Wyoming. There are almost no elk calves and Game and Fish is cutting the tags this fall..P

Dempsey,

No Monday quarterbacking at all ..

I lived in Flathead county,Montana, for the bett
er part of ten years.I have three different
friends who were involved in Wolf,Grizzly and and Mountain lion kills in the defense of themselves and/or their property while hunting or on a ranch.

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Here's a dumb question for a newbie: if you spotting an animal from couple of hundred yards away, how do you distinguish the difference between a wolf and a coyote?

Kory

Some interesting comments...I love those of you who support the three "S"'s. These are the same folks who married their sisters. Maybe the next time I am up on the forest and a bunch of cows piss me off (eating the PUBLIC's grass for next to nothing) I'll just "S.S.S.". What BS.

The reason why many of these depredating wolves are released with a collar, is because that way APHIS can later find the location of the entire pack and wipe them all out at once (from aircraft)...not just one at a time. A lot easier this way & more cost effective. Something I'm sure the paper left out of the article just to get people's hackles up.

MG

It is a shame that unrealistic wolf management may result in farmers having to dig deep post holes whenever they are building fence. Let's see now, dig hole, insert wolf, pour in concrete, insert pole, tell no one.

There needs to be some common sense applied to the re-introduction of wolfs into areas that now have economic reasons to not want them re-introduced.

Sadgoat: More of your uninspired irrelevent drivel burping up here I see! Shooting domestic cattle how subhuman is that!
For your information the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks did an extensive study of where Elk prefer to graze on grass! The answer is the wild Elk prefer to graze right along behind where cattle have grazed for those few months they are allowed to graze on public land - paying their way I might add! The reason is that this grass has been enhanced nutrition wise by the controlled grazing on it by cattle!
The Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks people made a movie showing the Elks preference for feeding on grass that has been grazed on by cattle! The subsequent testing of the nutrition value of the grass that had been grazed over by cattle was higher than ungrazed upon grass!
The Fish and Game folks verified this situation by alternating cattle on grassy areas from year to year! The Elk preferred the more nutritious grass that had been cropped by the grazing cattle and followed right along behind them choosing the grazed on grass over the ungrazed grass! The Elk could have easily jumped the fences seperating these huge grassy areas but chose to stay behind the cattle!
I saw that documentary the Fish & Game folks did on this situation and it was an eye opener for me at the time!
I am sure you can get a copy of the documentary from the Montana Department of Fish Wildlife and Parks Department or just ask them to send you a copy of the study! I believe the study (and the documentary) was called "Elk and Cattle Grazing on Mt. Haugen" or "Elk and Cattle Grazing on Fleecer Mountain".
And beleive me many of the folks at the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department are not real friendly with cattle ranchers or cattle grazing on public lands!
Anyway I had to straighten out the record on your erroneous implications regarding cattle on public lands! The documentary also explained how wild grasses are further enhanced by the controlled grazing of cattle in being able to better resist disease and bugs.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Sadgoat is right , and you can bet the asshole doesn't have a clue when it comes to grass and grazing management .

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when the range looks like a pool table covered in cow shit, the rancher needs to get his $1.40 an AUM cow off OUR public land!!

I'm sure you know all about the grazing on public land in Wyoming, being that you're from Gary SD..isn't that actually considered western Minnesota??

I guess grazing management means differently for me...for you guys...graze until it is time to turn the worms out!

MG

The "3 S rule" applies to hawks to don't it!!!! GHD PS: and Eagles????

FYI , NE SD has lots of native prairie and lots of ranching . My location aside though , it's a sure bet I know more than a green weenie like sadgoat about Wyoming grazng management . Likely it's a sure bet you are no rocket scientist either .

quote:

Sadgoat: More of your uninspired irrelevent drivel burping up here I see! Shooting domestic cattle how subhuman is that!

Kind of like shooting prairie dogs or rock chucks eh Varmitslob? At least if you blast a cow you'll save a few blades of grass for a mouse! It is definately a lot harder to "S.S.S" when you dump ol Bessie!

Sdgunslinger...like we say here in good ol Wy...We don't give a fuck how you do it back home. What is grazng management anyhow?
MG

quote:

What is grazng management anyhow?

That's most inteligent sentence you have typed yet . At least you finally saked the question .

Another safe bet : those Wyoming ranchers don't give a fuck what you green weenies think either .

S.S.S. thats a great way to cover up a lot of problems. Too bad we didn't do it with our BSE or "mad cow disease."

the chef

Like I said, we don't give a fuck how you do it in the flatlands!
You sound like a corn fed hog farmer...no rancher. Some of my best friends are ranchers...not hobby farmers like yourself but real (80,000+ acre) ranches. They are true stewards of the land...however, many wanna be's like yourself sdgunthrower who take advantage of public land and make every blade of grass count to keep your pockets lined.
Keep on sucking off the taxpayers and the U.S. Government's teat!

MG

Thanks guys, Thats not a bad idea.....S.S.S.

I'll have to remember that next time I see a herd of cattle on public land.....why waste time testing penetration on ballistic gelatin?

IV

Idaho vandal and sadlygoatly: You both have gone COMPLETELY mad!
What a couple of sad excuses for sportsmen!
You both should be ashamed of yourselves!
gonadgoat you keep coming up with these outrageous and unsubtantiated references to your friends this and your friends that - I feel with the temperament and the immaturity you dispaly on every occassion you possibly can - that you do not have any friends!
And again I feel sorry for you regarding that!
You are unable to make any specific convincing arguments and when you are asked specifics or proven wrong you resort to immature tactics! Time and time again!
Its simply laughable.
And its simply so easy to discredit you!
Any other ways you can think of for the forest service and the blm to make money off of public lands! They are bringing in revenue with grazing and our public lands are not being harmed so what specifically is your problem with the cattle grazing on public lands (a few months a year!), for a fee!
Like I say how else can the governmental agencies bring in huge yearly revenues from these lands?
You know, they could sell those lands and folks could build subdivisions on them?
nogonadsgoat you are simply way out of your league - so far out - you are meaningless!
You decry another person for posting his thoughts because he does not live in Wyoming! What sense does that make? You try repeatedly to deny the Wolf problem here in Montana!
I do not judge your blather on where you live, its the content of your tripe that is so ludicrous and immature!
I don't care what state you are from you are out to lunch - I fear permanently.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Go back to shooting your varmits...and you think IV and I aren't sportsman's like?? YOU'RE A JOKE!!! It probably gets you off when you blast those furry little prarie dogs and marmots...very disturbing. Do you eat them after you kill them? Some sportsman you are!
Discredit me? The $$ spent by the BLM and USFS to administer the grazing program on public lands costs MORE than the pennies they receive from AUM's! There is no revenue here...look it up! I guess you don't give a shit about where you tax $$ goes!!

Go play in your sandbox, and stick you head back in the sand!

MG

Hi VG!

I am merely trying to show how stupid the whole S.S.S. argument is. Destroying radio collars is as about as stupid as killing cows. Take the collars off of the damn things and drop them in the mail (after wiping them down for fingerprints of course) but destroying them is dumb, I think you could agree with that. The biologists who are burdened with tracking them do not set the policies THE POLITICIANS DO and destroying the radio collars forces them to cut research in other areas that are not FEDERALLY REQUIRED such as mule deer research and elk research. So anyone who would S.S.S. and then destroy the radio collar a "sad excuse for a spotsman" as well. As of February 7th in Idaho and Montana (south of I-90) wolves may be killed without the whole prior permission crap anyway- 10j rules took effect 2-7-05.

On a different note, how would someone hunt wolves? (if and when tags are issued) Would you call them in like songdogs?

As usual, I look forward to your comments...

Idaho "Gone absolutely mad" Vandal

In fact the more I think about it, why would these idiots who are willing to destroy a wolf collar or kill a wolf that is protected by Federal law, at least get the balls together to just go out and poach a fucking elk if they are so concerned about the population decreasing and feel so wronged? I don't see the logic?

My apologies for my terse remarks I mean no offense to anyone specific, but If we are going to throw the law out the window, lets at least be real and THROW it OUT the WINDOW.....

Idaho "Maybe elk poaching is the answer?" Vandal

Another post by sadgoat displaying his briliiant wisdom .

On one hand the 'goat advocates the shooting of someones cattle if the grass they are on ain't tall enough to suit him . On the other hand he claims to have many buddies owning large ranches.

Ya , with an attitude like that , I bet he has alot of ranching friends all right . Or maybe he is about as two-faced as they come .

Pudslinger, I'm sure you're the same type who would bring his livestock to graze that $1.50/AUM federal grass in wolf and grizzly country. Then you can't figure out why they are being ate...and want compensated (for being a dumb ass mostly) for your losses!!
Ya know what, I also give my rancher buddies a hard time about this whole deal and they agree! Some operators get away with murdering our public lands with no reciprocity from the ball-less USFS and BLM. Why not graze it down if no one is going to get after you for it!!

With ALL those acres of public land in your neck of the woods SD , I'm sure you REALLY know all about this right??

MG

With both Mtn Lions and wolves it's S.S.S. in these parts. They're no longer endangered and if you wait for the tree huggers to decide a hunting season is a good idea, well... you're kidding yourself.

I still believe SSS is incorrect in one way - the last "S" should be first. What I choose to do after that is not the concern of flower-sniffers, dirt worshippers or other smelly hermaphrodites.

Nor can it provide fodder for internet purse-fights. What you do is your business until you decide to make it everyone else's.

Last S first, then proceed.

Redial

quote:

On a different note, how would someone hunt wolves? (if and when tags are issued) Would you call them in like songdogs?

A calf in distress call works well, if you can't find one of those a deer/elk in distress works just fine.

Jim