Hi my name is VarmintGuy and I am a VarmintGun-aholic!
I mean I am really sick! I was doing perfectly well at the December 13th and 14th Gunshow out in the Seattle, Washington area. I was selling off my extras, a pistol, some knives and I even sold a couple of Rifles for friends when I discover a little old man peddling a plain Jane Remington 700 Classic in caliber 222 Remington. I want to tell you right up front I already have a plain Jane Remington 700 Classic in 222 Remington! I will admit my old Classic 222 shoots like a house on fire and kills Varmints of all kinds with ease and grace! So why in the world would I need another one?!
I will attempt to rationalize my compulsion (disease!).
If one wonderful walking Varminter type Rifle in this splendid caliber is a good thing then TWO Rifles should be twice as much of a good thing! Right. Follow my logic?
Those were my first thoughts anyway when I saw the super clean little Rifle!
My quick but intense scrutiny of the Rifle gave me this opinion. It was like new and not only the bolt face was full of bluing but the checkering was sharp enough to snag fuzz from the little old guys gun case! He was aking $425.00 and as I handed the Rifle back to him I inquired how it shot! He reported that he had not shot it in years and was not confident in his shooting anymore but that with a 6 power scope he had managed groups under one inch. I asked how much it had been shot and he replied under 300 rounds maybe under 200.
I laid on him my secret and not often used buying pitch and soon had the price at $350.00 cash. I then got serious! I got out my Siebert bore inspection tool and inspected the leades of the rifling, the chamber, the rifling, the muzzle and then went to town on the bolt re-examining it - carefully. I concurred the Rifle was barely broke in! I had the gentleman throw in his nice Rifle case and a set of bases and the nifty little Rifle was mine!
Now all I needed was ANOTHER scope! That is a seperate story but I now have the Rifle at home with a new Weaver V-16 (variable 4 to 16) on it in Leupold rings and bases. The trigger had previously been adjusted by Mike Pallazo a very competent Seattle area smith.
So I have another nifty Varminter in one of my all time favorite calibers all ready to go to the range on the next windless day here!
Yes I hid the purchase from my wife, children, relatives and even some Hunting partners who know of my other 222 Classic. I don't want them to know of my "weakness"!
Its hell being this sick!
Can anyone help me?
Or just send pet hand load suggestions for the "Deuce" my way in a plain brown E-mail.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Help you? Help you? What kind of help do you need? You are one lucky man! I have the same affliction and I think you did well.

Just go enjoy your new found treasure.

R F

Hello Varmintguy,

Like the man said, "You ain't seen nothing yet!" I don't know your age, but I'm 67 and getting a wee tired of
getting banged around. My last three rifles have been in .17Rem. 6mm Rem. and .222Rem. (again). When
some of us get older we tend to buy the less fierce calibers. If you get all these varmint calibers now,
what are you going to buy in your golden years? I thought as I aged I'd buy fewer rifles. Definitely not
true. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

The way I see it, the only "sickness" you might have is the usage of the word "Need". Need has nothing to do with it, you saw it, you wanted it, and you bought it. END OF STORY

Good for you,,, I love the .222Rem. I haven't been without one for over 30+ years.

Good Hunting

VarmitGuy, Sounds like you did good. I also love the forgot 222. As you know with us guys the guy with the most toys wins in the end. I read a post the other day you were looking at the new S&W 17 hows the search comming on that? Let us know when you get one as I am intersted to see if they realy shoot as well as in the article I read on them. Hope I did fuel your fire for another gun to much. (HA Ha)Rember christmas is just around the corner.

BossMoss: I am headed for Bozeman, Montana tomorrow to see what they have in stock and their prices. The best price I have seen so far is $490.00. I am also looking to buy the bases and rings and check out the current crop of pistol scopes. I may bring home another Christmas present tomorrow - we will see.
Bozeman is 115 miles from me and they have about four Gunshops worth visiting.
I also need another set of 222 dies and some other minor stuff.
Yeah I will let you all know how the S&W 647 shoots when I get it rolling.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

You are sick and I mean really sick. The rest of us are jealous. Great buy...If you had a scope fettish too all you'd have to do is reach in the safe and grab one. My son and I like to have at least a half dozen gopher guns when we head your way.

That's not sick; let me give you sick. I live in Alaska where more that one varmint gun it like buying three shoes. But make some sense out of this. I bought a old Rem 788 in 243 for my varminting adventures. Decided it needed a bluing job so I rebarreled and restocked, $500 later I have a new 22-250. Then I decided I may not always want all that power, I need a .223. So I bought a AR-15. Rebarrelled to a heavy varmint barrel and got a trigger job. But then I decided that was to heavy to carry, so I bought a XP-100 .223. That was the cat's meow until I found Todd Kindler's "Twenty Caliber Page." So off to PacNor for a rebarrel. Meanwhile I needed a handgun while it was gone, so I bought a TC Contender frame and went barrel shopping. A Virgin Valley .221 Fireball, 17 Mach IV, and a Bullberry 6X47 "followed" me home over the course of a week. I then wondered what if I want something with more horsepower than the Contender frame can handle, and just as if by magic, I ran into a deal on a TC Encore followed by a Virgin Valley 6.5BR barrel. But I longed for my XP-100 and the good folks at PacNor said mid February for delivery of my beloved .20 XP-100. So I bought another one to tide me over in a fully customized 6PPC. I will not bore you with my efforts to scope all of these guns. Let it just suffice to say they are all scoped well.
In summary, if you think you have a problem or an addiction with varmint gun purchases. Cut this out and put it in your wallet. Next time you see a varmint gun you can't live without, pull it out and read it. It should make that next purchase a snap, because you will know there is always someone sicker than you.

Last Valentines day I'm wandering around downtown Bozeman looking for a present for the most wonderful long suffering woman in the world, "my wife!". Walked into the Powder Horn and low and behold there are 6 assorted .17 HMR's laying on the counter. First CZ Varmint I'd seen (nice wood) good reputation , loved the feel. Any body want to take a guess here? 10 minutes later I'm an owner. A guilt ridden louse with a new toy, and to make it worse when I took it home she get's all excited tells me how pretty it is and that I deserve a new gun. What can ya say, a good woman is hard to find. VarmintGuy I've always had a motto, "anything worth doing is worth over doing"!!! Works for me.

Atlast count I had 1 moose rifle, 1 deer rifle, and 10 varmint rigs. You never have enough varmint rifles.
I think most varmint hunters, by necessity, are more concerned with pinpoint accuracy than larger game
hunters. That search for accuracy can be a disease to many of us, and we reflect it in the number of
heavy barreled varmint rifles we accumulate. I think maybe reloading for accuracy has something to do
with it also. At least in my case this seems to be true. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

All of you guys are just plain sick, sick, sick. I've got a re-built Ruger .257 Imp. that drives tacks and have yet to shoot varmint 1. Now, I've been kicking around getting a .22-250 Imp. For what? I have yet to see a prairie dog here in Alaska in all of my years living here.
Bear in Fairbanks

Sick?? I spend most of my money on hunting, rifles and women. The rest i waste .

I guess I've got this disorder too:

1 243 Win in Ruger M77 Mark II topped with a Nikon 3-9
1 22-250 in Rem 700 VS topped with a Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10x48
1 223 Rem 700 PSS LTR topped with a Leupold 3.5-10x50
1 223 Colt AR-15 Gov't Carbine
1 223 M-16 RR
And for the really long range:
1 300 Wby Mag in Rem Sendero topped with a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44

Its just a weakness I have and it seems to be getting worse.

Well, I've got it too.



I just bought an H&R Sportster in .17 HMR with a BSA Cateye 3-10 variable scope with illuminated cross hairs for fox hunting at night. I'll let you know how the cute little rig shoots when the wind dies down around here.



I am so ashamed

Got a deal like that on a little Ruger #1 in 22PPC topped with a 25x Lyman 'All American' with RCBS dies and 120 cases for $US490. This was a factory rifle (1993)with a 23" factory barrel, but was being sold because it wouldn't shoot under an inch any more, because it need a new barrel.



I took it home and found that the cases were .015" over length and were hard to chamber. The fired cases had flatened primers like they were overloads and the barrel just was fouled terribly.



After a week of bore scrubbing and with two boxes of new cases and some match grade 52gn Bergers and it was shooting 0.3's again. Hell, even 50gn Sierra SP's shoot 0.65" and sometimes better.



The old cases have now been full length sized, trimmed to length and neck turned to uniform. Last week I shot a very nice 0.231" with these 'worn out' shells.



Am I a benchrester, "HELL NO" but I can hit a fox in either eye with my 'worn out' Varmint gun

You guys: Thanks. You are making me feel better!
I just watched the weather report and it looks like more windy conditions here in SW Montana tomorrow! So I can't get my latest acquisition (Varmint Rifle) out to the range again tomorrow to begin load development!
So as an alternative I am heading for Missoula, Montana to do the Sportsman Exposition there! I have given my wife all my credit cards and only have enough cash for a hot dog and the sport show! I am NOT going to go to Bob Wards sport shop, nor Sportsmans Warehouse, nor The Axemans sport shop nor even the Sportsmans Surplus sport shop! And thats final! Well maybe I will just stop in all those places to just look!
I mean I have no cash and no Visa card! So whats the harm? I wonder though if I do see a real steal on a Rifle - if those shops will take a Shell Gas credit card? I mean if its a real emergency! Then that would be OK wouldn't it?

Attention Bad Ass Wallace: I have been trying to find one of those Ruger #1's in either 6mm PPC or 22 PPC for several years now. Good for you and especially good for it being such a great shooter! Yikes I am jealous. All the folks I know that got one of those PPC's has been VERY happy with them.
I heard that the inventor (one of the inventors) of the PPC cartridges filed suit against Ruger for the manufacture without consent of his proprietary cartridge. Meanwhile Sako did make arrangements with one of the inventors and their manufacture was blessed. So in effect the Rugers in PPC calibers are rare and pricey now. You got a great deal!
Just last fall I got a Sako single shot bolt Rifle in 6mm PPC from an estate deal. It was new unfired and shoots VERY well indeed.
Happy New Year to all you folks down under!
Its your summer isn't it? Or maybe spring?
Enjoy your cool Varminter!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Cal Sibley: Thank you for your support and the numbers and ratios you relayed. I don't feel so ALONE anymore!

Of the Rifles I shoot at live quarry my ratio is 39 to 10 (Varminters to Big Game Rifles)! So maybe you have a pretty serious situation going there yourself with your "high ratio"!

You are absolutely correct a really compelling part of my "interest" in Varminters is the search for and pleasure derived from accurate Rifles!

I will say this (briefly though, at this time) in the last 9 years or so my search for accuracy has been greatly shortened! No its not improvement in my shooting skill (which is medium at best!) but in my loading techniques, barrel break in regimen, scope mounting procedures and my acquisition of the superb Sinclair bullet seating gauge tool among other things!

Let me expound just a tad here on some of these things. I now only use the highest quality components (Federal Match primers, good quality brass, lots of Berger, Sierra and Nosler bullets, best suited powders including some of the Vitha Vourhi powders etc), I purchased a NECO bullet concentricity gauge and set out to make real "concentric" ammunition! I also started using Redding dies including neck sizers, some bushing dies, competition (BR) type seaters and the like. About this same time I decided to only shoot my load development ammo on windless days! I can not explain or quantify the following but I am sure it has solved my "wandering P.O.I." problems. I carefully mount my scopes in properly aligned rings (bore sighted rings!), I carefully lap my rings now also. If my scopes (which are centered) need a lot of windage or elevation to bore sight the rings in then I sell the rings or bases and replace them! About this time my older brother bought me a SNAP-ON inch/pounds torque wrench! I was to cheap to buy one for myself ($180.00 back then!) even though I wanted one for years! I carefully torque my Rifles to settings appropriate for that make and model! I began doing my own trigger adjustments back a bit before then and simply refuse to shoot with heavy triggers any more. I have several Jewell triggers along with a couple other custom brands. The Sinclair bullet seating gauge/tool is simply the best money I have ever spent in my handloading life! It is genius and superb results rolled up in a $17.95 package! They may be more now!

Sooooo.... Any more I am most often rewarded with handload/firearm combinations that shoot really well with a very minimum of load combinations!

I wish I could give more definitive ratings to each of these "changes" I made about the same time 9 - 10 years ago but I can't. I kind of "took the next step up" in effort and equipment all at the same time. I just know its been working well for me lately and I am not changing a thing!

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Com'mon, ya gotta go to the Axemen! And don't give up hope, there's always lay-away !!! You better think this through, no card and lay-away means another trip from Dillon to Missoula by way of Butte, that could end up being a three firearm trip on it's own! By the time you hit Sportsmans Exposition with no card you could end up needing a new gun safe,this is getting better by the minute."Have a Nice Trip"!!!---- Wait a Minute!! in Missoula your only 30 minutes from Stevensville,(can you say "COOPER"). I'd like to be the first to wish you all the luck in the world, cause I'm thinking this new austerity program is fraught with peril. By the way, and in no way meaning to stir the guano--Have you got that new S&W .17 HMR revolver yet??? I wonder if they have em in Missoula, I hear they shoot "REAL GOOD"!!! Just trying to help a fellow shooter in a moment of weakness we're here for ya buddy be strong.

Montdoug: Yes I did buy a new Smith and Wesson Model 647 on December 19th at the Yellowstone Gateway Sports store! It did not turn out to well though and I feel a long posting coming on soon in regards to my purchase and attempted use of said 17 HMR pistol! I had been holding back on posting my experience waiting for the S&W people and/or the Yellowstone Gateway store folks to solve/settle the situation.
It seems the Smith & Wesson folks forgot to put any rifling in the barrel of my Model 647 revolver! I mean none! Not a hint of any rifling! Which at first sounds like a laughable oversight is actually an inherently dangerous situation! Visualize the folks drilling an undersize hole down a barrel and then forgetting to rifle that hole! So when a customer buys an unrifled arm and is not smart enough to check for absence of rifling in a revolver (like me) and the next day takes it to his range and fires it he is really making some internal ballistic dynamics that should not be done! The barrel was not rifled or grooved and the 17 caliber projectile was swaged down an undersize hole with no grooves to expand into when fired. My first clue to something amiss was blowback in my face all around my shooting glasses! I fired said pistol with 2 kinds of ammunition (Hornady and Remington 12 rounds of each) and noticed keyholing bullet outlines (long narrow swagey looking 17 caliber bullet outlines) on my targets! I quit firing said pistol and went to my home and retrieved my Siebert bore inspection optical tool and discovered that no rifling appeared what so ever in the barrel anywhere. I took the pistol unannounced to my local gunsmith (for a witness) and explained the keyholing but not what I thought caused it. The smith immediately inspected the barrel and burst into guffaws and laughs galore. My cheeks turned red. I immediately drove the pistol 120 miles back to Bozeman and quietly informed the counterman at the store my situation and that S&W needed a copy of form #4473 to go along with the pistol for return. The people at Gateway were pretty good about the situation even called the manager at home and he made suggestions on how to resolve the situation. They checked their other store for an exchange pistol but none available as yet. The pistol has been returned to S&W and I have no pistol and my half a thousand bucks is somewhere else than in my pocket so I am in limbo - 647less in Dillon, so to speak!
I will say this - that pistol had an amazing trigger and was beautiful and the timing was very nice! It also came with a "fired case" in an envelope from the factory. So someone apparently shot the thing at the factory! I just for the life of me can not figure how a rifling less pistol barrel can be produced and get through inspections and then be assembled and inspections and test firing? Like I said in my letter to Smith & Wesson (that they request for all returned warranty work pistols) I have a big plastic tub full of S&W pistols (all revolvers) now and I also carried them professionally for 29 years and never had a problem with any of them!
But this small hole - no rifling in the barrel situation has me disconcerted.
Are YOU "familiar" with the folks there at Gateway Sports Doug?
I late last night found out the Sportsmans Exposition at Missoula opens today (Friday) at 5:00 PM. I thought it was a day long thing and may attend instead the Bozeman version later this month when it moves there.
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Very interesting, to this point this topic has been rather tongue in cheek, but that is indeed serious. I guess everyone makes mistakes, but with the firearms guys their margin for error is very small before it gets dangerous. I'd be interested in the final outcome, how a company handles a mistake says a lot about the company. I'm guessing they will rectify the problem in a hurry, I'm sure their face is a lot redder than yours was. I ordered 500 pieces of Remington bulk brass once that didn't have the flash hole punched, that of course I caught before use and it was rather funny. Once I was hunting gophers with a friend who had a 10-22 Ruger, he shot and there was a big bang and the action was blown up out of the stock, the stock was broken and the magazine blew out. Gun was destroyed! He damn near peed down both legs! The rifle was only a few years old, the Powder Horn sent it back to Ruger and Ruger wouldn't say a word about what happened, (don't know to this day) it was like they were afraid an attorney would jump up and grab em. He was a lot more patient than I would have been, and after several months a new rifle showed up, (they even sent the sporter when his had been the basic mod)personally I was always curious what the hell happened, but Ruger wasn't talking. In this case I'm guessing you'll end up happy, like I said before the article on that piece was real impressive. Don't think I've ever read an article before that where the author flat said it was the most accurate pistol he'd ever shot. Should be fun.

One last thing, I did notice as I hope everyone else did that you were wearing eye protection excellent example of what can happen when you don't, glad your alright. Keep us posted how it turns out.

Mountdoug: Yikes on that no primer hole oversight thingy! Gee! I sometimes feel that factory workers/inspectors are letting to much bad product get by these days!
I have a close freind who lives here in northwest Montana and he has a friend who lives in the Seattle area. They were going Mule Deer Hunting on a secret ranch in eastern Montana 4 years ago. So the Seattle guy is all excited and goes out and buys a brand new Weatherby Mark V rifle a couple of days before the Hunt. He also buy 3 boxes of ammo and has a scope mounted on the Rifle. He shows up in remote NW Montana and wants to fire his Rifle for the first time. Sight it in. Well low and behold the Rifle would not detonate a cartridge! It would not dent a primer! My NW Montana friend called me and we gathered info and discussed possibilities. Finally I found some exact measurements of the firing pin and its travel in one of my technical books. It was learned by us that the wrong (not a broken!) firing pin was in that Rifle! That Rifle could never have been fired at the factory! Now this is not a whos fault is it problem or a money situation as my friend and his friend went the next day and drove 200 miles to Missoula and paid their own money to have the Rifle corrected immediately so it could be used without further delaying the Mule Deer Hunt! Yes I am aware that Weatherby claims that all of its Mark V's are required to shoot certain size groups before they leave the factory but this Rifle would not make a factory Weatherby cartridge ignite! Hmmmm......
Like I say I really wish that factory inspectors were required or WOULD inspect carefully EVERY firearm before it leaves the factory! Any factory.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy