Its a long story but I will spare most of the details. I recently had occassion to search the two warehouses and the huge basement of my friends wonderful Gunshop in NW Washington State. I was looking for a Varmint Rifle that showed on the inventory but was not readily found in its proper "storage area"!
I was literally crawling for most of two hours looking for this particular Varminter which I never found!
I did find a small stash of the Remington 700 Classic's in caliber 221 Remington Fireball! I am sure that my friend had 3 of them - all new in the box and tucked away deep in amongst literally hundreds of other Rifles!
I have one of these Classic's in 221 Fireball myself and have been very pleased with it both accuracy and lethality wise in the Varmint fields. These Classics were pretty popular and it got difficult in my circles to find one once I made up my mind to get one.
If anyone is interested in one of these Classic Fireballs they are at the Kesselring Gunshop near Burlington, Washington and the phone number is 360-724-3113.
I also saw a Classic in either 300 Winchester Magnum or 300 Weatherby Magnum. It is also new in the box and carefully tucked away in a corner of the basement.
No prices were evident on the factory cartons of these Classics.
Long live the Fireball!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have the 221 Fireball in the xp100 and was wondering if you might post some of your loads that might be useful on coyotes.

JeffMc: I have two Varmint Rifles in 221 Remington Fireball caliber. They both use 40 gr. bullets.
My Remington Classic (with 24" barrel) uses the Nosler 40 gr. Ballistic Tips, Federal 205M primers, Remington brass and Lil'Gun powder.
I use this rig mostly on Colony Varmints like Rock Chucks, Prairie Dogs and Ground Squirrels.
My other Fireball is a Kimber Ultra Varmint model also with a 24" barrel. Again this rig gets most of its use in the Colony Varmint fields. This Rifle uses the 40 gr. Berger Hollow Points, Federal 205M primers, Remington cases and IMR 4227 powder.
The Fireball is a nifty and useful Varmint cartridge. For calling, the 40 gr. bullets may just be the ticket. I have not done much Coyote wise with either Rifle recently.
Good luck with your rig!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I really can't understand why people will go out of their way to buy a .22 Hornet and then show no interest in the .221 Fireball. I have both and it costs about the same to reload both.
I take both out sage rat shooting and the Fireball is so much more effective shooting the same bullet at much higher speed. The brass is easier to work with and I can form it out of 222 Remington brass very easily, or just order it from Midway. I don't have to be fussy with the .221 brass. I just wish Remington would chamber the Model 7 in it. That would make a very good walking varminter. Until then I will use my CZ527 or mini-mauser in .221 Fireball. For bench use I have a heavy barrel Bruno ZKM. If you like your Fireball, please tell everyone that will listen.

VG and Old Elk Hunter, I have no idea why anybody would use either when they can use a .204 for a walking varminter!! Yesterday, the wife and I were headed out to dinner and a young shooter(Ruck frm here on the forum) called and wanted to test some loads at the GHD range. The wife told him to come on. He and hs merry band of friends showed up as we were leaving at 6:00PM and were still there when we returned at 8:0PM!! So I did the "accomodating host" bit and went out to visit. Ruck was constructing a clickchart for the absolutely WONDERFUL 25-06 that I got for him from "hvywt" form here on the forum this spring! It was only doing 3/4" at 400 yards using 85 grain OR 115 Noslers!! Not too bad!!
I had the little Model 7 synthetic in .204(1 of 500) in the truck and told Ruck and friends I'd never tested it at 300 or 400 and would they mind if I shot?? No go ahead, it's your range anyway!!!(kinda what I thought!!) So using the first mil-dot down in the NIKON 4.5-14 BUCKMASTER side focus it proceeded to drill the center of their "Shoot&C" 300 yard target!! So now it's to 400!! 20oz drink bottles filled with water.........2/2 and then put it back in the truck!!!
That little Model 7 surprised me!! Albeit, it's not "factory" after having the trigger done by GHD and the stock from the recoil lug forward "Dremeled" and then filled with epoxy to get a bed and float and stiffen the tupperware!!! It's not a VLP, XR-100, or VT-Target but it's a "first shot will be there!!!" little rifle!!! And you can see the hit!!! The 221 is a great little round and my post was not to demean that little guy at all!!! I might just call your friend and get one for the simple reason,......I don't have one at the moment!!! Charlie (GHD)

Ground Hog Devastation: I must ask this of you. Is your range well protected from the wind? I recall several of your Rifles have been shooting really good groups of late!
Good for you and your Remingtons. Its always been my motto - if you want accuracy from a factory Rifle - buy Remington!
Part of my concerns for the wind conditions at your range is the almost incessant wind that I have been dealing with since moving to Montana 8 years ago!
My range out in Seattle at 25' above sea level and in a protected valley between two hills, on many occassions gave me conditions of absolute still air! Air so still that one could puff a light breath down the action/barrel of an only slightly warm barrel and watch the heat waves disperse! That, is still air. These still air shooting conditions are one of the only things I miss about Seattle!
I agree with you whole heartedly regarding the wonderful 204 Ruger! I consider the 204 Ruger cartridge to be one of the top five all around BEST Varmint cartridges EVER devised! One simply has to use one to prove this for oneself!
Long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, I'm in SW VA, on top of a "foothill" to the BLUE RIDGE mtns. Our mountains are somewhat older than the Rockies!! Looking out my backdoor, I'm in sight of "Cahas Knob" second highest point in VA!! The wind blows here!! When those yung bucks showed up Saturday PM, I told them that the wind was swirling and I didn't know how much "usable data" they'd get!!! When I returned home at 8:00PM the wind was still!! Using good Nikon optics(couldn't help but poke a jab in here!!) they could still discern hits at 400 even with the little 20 calibers!! But discerning a hit on a 20 oz soda bottle is pretty much....."are you blind????" There is a serious eruption of water and such from those hits!!! (unless you just happen to place a 39 grain SIERRA just under the cap where there is no water!!!!) Anyway, the wind blows here!!! Late PM is the time to do the click charts!!! Except tonite when the thunderstorm dumped on my deck sealant that I was putting down when the coyotes started squalling on the mountain!!! I even had MRS GHD come out to hear the voices!!!!! Charlie(GHD)

GHD: Thanks for the comeback. I feel better knowing I am not the only one dealing with the swirling winds!
Yeah its late here also! I am on "earthquake watch" here as we had a nasty one at 10:30ish PM tonight. I have felt 3 aftershocks and the VarmintSons felt another as I was driving over to the elderly neighbors place to see if they were all right (phones out for 1/4 hour - even the local cell phones - the first cell I got to work was one I use on the west coast with a Seattle prefix!).
The quake knocked over 8 vases and one TV and knocked down two of my favorite pictures and one painting. IT also knocked down off my fireplace two large shed horns (one Whitetail and one Mule Deer that I show folks to demonstrate the differences in the two) and one almost hit the VarmintDog as he sped past the fireplace as he was bolting to who knows where when the first one hit! I better find a new place for them! Thankfully no one was hurt here and nothing damaged beyond repair. No gas leaks and the rechargeable flashlights are all being recharged.
This wasn't a very long quake but it WAS a BOUNCER! Why my house is still standing is beyond me!
I have been in a couple of stronger and longer quakes and several lesser quakes - but the bouncing of the house in this one was the worst I have endured.
Anyway no sleep tonight as I am on watch as the VarmintSons are trying to sleep so they can get up and go to work in the morning.
Total lack of local news on the TV with any info on damages or injuries. I called all my friends once phone service resumed and everyone is OK that I got hold of.
The VarmintDog was sure miffed this was his first earthquake and the aftershocks have him running for the door. Even his favorite treats won't settle him down!
All doors are unlocked and unbarred for quick exit and I am locked and loaded in case the looters from L.A. or New York make it here by morning. LOL!
The national news just mentioned the quake was 13 miles north of Dillon (where I live) and that area is very sparsely populated. Thankfully.
I hope everyone in SW MOntana is OK - one of my friends told me his well water is running dirty out of his faucets!
Maybe that will take a while to clear up (settle down?).
More later
Thanks again for the comeback
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I am not going to say there is anything wrong with the .204, I have never used one. I have several .223 Remingtons and just can't see adding a .204. I use the Fireball because it pushes my favorite bullet fast and with very little powder. When you shoot an average of 5000 rounds a year the cost of powder adds up. The Fireball has been entirely adequate for sage rats. Have fun with the .204 and keep us updated on its performance.

quote:

Originally posted by JeffMc:
I have the 221 Fireball in the xp100 and was wondering if you might post some of your loads that might be useful on coyotes.

First off, I agree with Old Elk Hunter. The .221 Fireball covers the Hornet application very well. It uses roughly the same amount of powder and delivers greater performance while not suffering from limited brass life or case stretch. I had a Ruger stanless M77/22VHZ for a number of years. It was a good rifle but was limited by the Hornet chambering for the reasons cited. I engaged in a dialog with Ruger engineers about possibly offering that rifle in a Fireball chambering but its construction would not support the high pressures of the Fireball case. The M700 Classic certainly will and it is an excellent rifle, accurate and powerful. Often I end up missing a rifle that I sell (so I usually don't sell many). I sold off the Ruger Hornet and haven't looked back since.

The .204 certainly looks fun but in my opinion it lacks the substantial support system that exists for the .224 caliber. I have quite a few .224 caliber chamberings in my inventory. Any .224 bullet I have can be shot in any one of those rifles (or pistols), they all use the same cleaning rod/jag equipment.

As far as powders go. I shoot a 50 gr. Vmax with 17.0 gr. AA1680. I've tried quite a few powders in my fireball. For heavier bullets, Lil'gun is too fast. This load works great in my TC (10" bbl) and M700 Classic (24" bbl). Performance on pDogs to 250 yards is definitive and final.

re5513

Old Elk Hunter: You would not be adding a 204 to your several 223 Remingtons! You would be investing in an absolutely superlative caliber that notably surpasses anything Varmint wise a 223 can do!
I have 7 Varmint Guns in caliber 223 Remington right now and none of them hold a candle to my 204's ballistically. The 204's shoot much flatter, much straighter and much faster (remember the speed of a bullet is a major factor in the lethality of a bullet - the faster a bullet the more lethal it is!). These attributes of the 204 Ruger will produce for a Varminter more hits and more cleanly killed Varmints.
Thus its more fun!
Your 223's are gonna be jealous of what your 204 Ruger (the one you are gonna get in the near future!) can do!
Long live the 223!
Long live the 221!
Long live the 204!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Amen VG!!! And as far as the Hornet goes, we should never have even been discussing it in the same posts as the 221, 222 or whatever!! Give me a good 17HMR and take your Hornet home!!! The inherrent accurracy of the HMR will override the power of the Hornet out to 155-200 yards!!! After that you ought to be shooting something else anyway!!! This ought to draw some remarks and negative reviews!!! No problem!! Enjoy your Hornets if that's what you've got! There are other choices out there!!! GHD

I like the .204 case. Just open up the neck to 6mm and you've got something. I shoot my 6mmBr more than I shoot the .223 Rem's. Basically I take one of my .221 Fireballs, the 6mmBr, and a good .22 bolt and I can cover all my shooting opportunities around here. The 6mmBR is great for coyotes, rockchucks, and jackrabbits. The .221 is the long range sage rat gun, and the .22 bolt is for the young dumb sage rats. In the winter I dig out a white camo'd .223 and shoot everything with it. I don't mind if I loose a case or two in the snow.

For my second son's first centerfire rifle I had him buy a LV SF in 221 Fire Ball. I've been using it more than he has(grin) 40 grain Nosler BT's and lil gun makes quite an impression on woodchucks. Here's a group he shot off the hood of my truck at 100 yards. Gotta love those Remmy's.

quote:

Originally posted by Old Elk Hunter:
I like the .204 case. Just open up the neck to 6mm and you've got something. I shoot my 6mmBr more than I shoot the .223 Rem's. Basically I take one of my .221 Fireballs, the 6mmBr, and a good .22 bolt and I can cover all my shooting opportunities around here. The 6mmBR is great for coyotes, rockchucks, and jackrabbits. The .221 is the long range sage rat gun, and the .22 bolt is for the young dumb sage rats. In the winter I dig out a white camo'd .223 and shoot everything with it. I don't mind if I loose a case or two in the snow.

The last two prairie dog hunts I went on this year found with with my 6BR, my .221, and a 22 WMR bolt gun. I used to bring along a Marlin .22 but traded some computer gear a while back for a cheap Squires Bingham .22 Mag. Back then there was no .17 HMR. The .22 Mag works great for the close ones and the occasional jack. The .221 w/ 50 gr. VMAX leaves no walking wounded behind. And the 6BR w/ 60 gr. Berger MEF's? Well, to those in the know, no further detail is necessary.

I really like the LVSF in .221. It's pricier than what the Classic's sold for but if a good deal on one ever shows up you can bet I'll pick it up.

I think the guys who opt for the .204 are making a great choice. The twenty caliber world definitely has justification to exist. Shoot what you enjoy shooting. For me my list is in the first paragraph of this post.

re5513

All of the calibers that have been talked about have their place. When shooting PD's, my mood changes and I do different things. A typical day involves the use of 223's, 204's and of course the 221. My 221 is my walking gun, very accurate and with 40 gr. V-Max's it does its job. I always hate trying to narrow things down to one "universal" caliber. Besides, I could only justify one rifle.

Old ElK Hunter--You don't get old by being stupid.
FVA--You did not say how old your son was so I will only say you will be extremely happy shooting a load of somewhere between 17.5-18.0 gr. RL7 and Federal 205's with a Hornady 50 or 52 gr. bullet.
The fireball is such a simple easy round to get along with and the kids (big kids)also love them.

I love my .221 Fireball. I had one built on a Remingtom 700 action. Has a bull barrel and a Kiplinger single set trigger and Zero laminated stock. Topped off by a 6 X 18 X 50 AO Bushnell scope. Weighs just over 13 pounds.

I don't know how to post pics here yet, but my zero with the .221 is the avatar under my name on the post. The gun is much more accurate than I am though!

Roy Richardson: Nice shooting there with your 221 Fireball!
I, also, am an advocate of heavy Varmint Rifles! For instance I have a Varminter in caliber 17 MachIV that weighs 12 pounds 11 ounces!
Weight in a Varmint Rifle aids in so many more weighs than it detracts for a Varminter.
I have my share of lighter Varminters including a Remington 700 Classic in 221 Fireball and I will admit they have their places and uses!
I still way prefer long barrels and heavier weights! Over the decades I have simply been more succesful with them in all manners and styles of Varminting.
I am dealing now on a Rifle I have long covetted!
It is in an estate and has been promised to me once the heirs of my deceased friend get the energy to sell off his Rifles.
The Rifle I am awaiting is a factory stock gun from Remington's Custom Shop. It is a Remington 40XB-KS (27 1/4" heavy stainless barrel) Rifle in caliber 221 Remington Fireball!!!
I have seen this Rifle perform at the range and it IS a tack driver!!!
I am sure my friend only fired it maybe 200 times! He had so many wonderful Rifles and really enjoyed collecting accurate Rifles and Varminters, having them built to his specifications and getting them to shoot well!
I can't wait to bring home this Fireball!
Continued good luck with yours.
Long live the 221 Remington Fireball!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Thanx for the complement VarmintGuy.

I shoot other heavy rifles too! I shoot mostly Rugers, and my .223 and .204 are the heavy target models. The .204 shoots like a banjo string out to 400 yards and more.

The first time I shot it, I held over on a shot that was over 200 yards and was surprised to actually see the bullet barely touch the top of the head of the prairie dog. No need to hold over with that cartridge.

I had more one shot kills on pd's at over 300 yards than I have ever had last weekend. Nice to have a caliber that you can just shoot at things with!