The varmint season will soon be here and I want another rifle struggling to decide what I want.w/regards

Gophershooter: I hesitate to correct you but the Varmint season is here now!
I killt a Varmint today in fact, with one of my 204 Ruger Rifles!
I Hunt Varmints year round!
Maybe by Varmint season you mean Colony Varmint season like in Ground Squirrels, Prairie Dogs, Rock Chucks and like them summery Varmints!
I hesitate to recommend strongly one of these fine calibers over the other for you!
They both possess splendid Colony Varmint and all around Varminting attributes! Like excellent accuracy, no recoil, flat trajectories, good wind bucking abilities out to modestly long ranges (400+ yards), good brass life, economical to shoot and on and on a bit!
I have a wonderful factory stock Remington Rifle in 17 Remington. It was a limited run Rifle that they made 1,000 of a few years back. It is an all stainless Varmint 700 Model with a 26 heavy stainless barrel!!!
It is wonderfully accurate and I have killed Varmints of every kind with it! I love this Rifle AND the caliber. I have another Remington 700 Classic in 17 Remington it is the 24" sporter weight barrel model.
Excellent accuracy comes with this Rifle as well.
I love the 17 Remington and what it does in the Varminting arena!
Having said that, I am going to give my recommendation very reservedly and cautiously to the 204 Ruger!
It can shoot a bit flatter a bit further! And thats about the extent of my recommendation for you!
They are BOTH extremely fine Varminting cartridges.
Among available Varmint weight Rifles today, I think you can get into the 204 Ruger calibered Rifles a bit cheaper than the 17 Remingtons.
You being from Montana and having the monicker of Gophershooter, maybe I would lean the other way though and advise using the 17 Remington loaded to moderate velocities with a really accurate and frangible 17 caliber bullet (Bergers or Calhoons?).
Yeah take that bit of sage advise Gophershooter - buy one of each!
Wish I could be more decisive and helpful to you!
But I can emphatically add this, if you are going to mostly shoot Gophers with your 17 Remington OR your 204 Ruger I highly recommend a good variable scope of at least 16 power on the top end and an adjustable objective feature!
Good luck with whichever you decide on!
There is a beautiful Remington Model XR-100 here in Dillon, Montana by the way, and its in caliber 204 Ruger! The asking price is $735.00 and I think you could get it for $680.00 or $690.00!
I sure like my 204 Ruger in the XR-100 Model!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Gophershooter

Gets a little windy there in Montana and I'd have to say even though I own a 17 Remington and really like the gun. The wind your going to have to deal with says 20 over the 17 in a heart beat.

Dale;I agree every day here is a varmint killing paradise experience,skunks,porkys,coyotes,rabbits.and colony varmints,unbelievable if you dont live here.w/regards

If you want the rifle as an all around varminter , 204 is the way to go . Loaded with the heavier bullets it's just packing alot more freight when you get past 300 yards or so . The main advantage of the 17 , I feel , is the extreme safety (frangibility) of the tiny bullets around settled areas or livestock , but the 204 sure isn't bad on that score either.

I think you will be seeing more and more options in the 20 caliber bullet department after a few years . I think the caliber is selling very well .


One bad mark against the 17 is the price of the brass , about twice as dear as 204 . But there is something about seeing those pd s electrocuted right in your scope without the slightest bit of muzzle jump that makes that 17 quite a hoot to use . And I'm really looking forward to trying out the new 25 gr V-Max , it should extend the range of the little caliber some .

I have invested in both calibers and I'm not sorry one bit........

Gpher shooter- after 20 some years I finally got out of the 17 buz. Absolutely no none zero regrets.

Between those 2 I would no doubt go 204! Slam dunk game is over.

A couple of other quick things, I should add is that if you're a reloader I'd go 204 if not then I'd go 223 and be done with it.

Mark D

Thanks Mark;But I already have 4 223,s but damned good advice,and yes I do reload so I am going the .204 route.Thanks to all.w/regards

Darn good move, you'll be for liking I gotta believe. Varm Guy is a bit of a proponet of the 204...(grins) and I don't believe he would steer you wrong either.

Mark D

Sdgunslinger: My fellow poster Jay Johnson reminded me that there indeed is a 50 grain bullet offered in the 20 caliber line now!
I believe he told me it was the Berger brand.
You are right though the 20 caliber "revolution" is just starting - but its really on a roll!
I just this evening bought a bag of "50" 204 Ruger brass (Winchester) for $7.00 at my local sport/pawn shop! I didn't need it - it was just such a good buy (compared to what I have been paying of late and to begin with, that I bought it!
The 17 Remington brass is almost twice that price ($24.00 per 100 plus shipping from Midway) - I don't know why?
Again good luck with whichever you choose!
Or come on down and I'll let you shoot my rigs at the range or in the field! Or we can just fart around and shoot some plastic pop bottles filled with water at 300 yards+!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG that 20 caliber 50 Gr. bullet according to Berger has a BC of .296 and Berger reccomends a 1 in 9 twist. Should be an awsome bullet if it doesn't drop the MV to much. Since I've found some more that sound pretty good. Don Unmussig Bullets:. Don manufactures 30, 35, 40, 45, 48, 50, 52, 55, and 57 grain .204 caliber HP bullets. The 30 and 35 grainers are Flat Base. Don offers both Flat Base and Boat Tail designs in the 40-55 grain weight range. Don's 57 grainer, a 15-ogive VLD, is probably the highest BC 20-Caliber bullet you can buy. Don also manufactures 30gr and 33gr Round Nose Semi Point (RNSP) for the Remington 5MM Rimfire cartridge in HP or lead-tipped. These bullets can also be used in centerfire cartridges. Custom weights available. Contact: (804) 320-1165. No web site.

Jay Johnson: You are just a wealth of information!
Thanks!
I have received 4 different phone calls from different friends in Washington State in the last two days now.
They all are lamenting the rain!
All of them were born in the Puget Sound area and should be used to the "moist air" after about 55 years (average each!) of it.
I just reply that its dry and warm here and we have had only .28" of precipitation in the last 39 days here in SW Montana (snicker snicker!).
Anyway stay dry and put ANOTHER layer of rust repellant on all your guns!
I have heard declarations of 4.00" of rain in the last 3 days around the sound!
Sheesh! Thats coming down.
Thanks again for the info.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Well I don't think it has been more than one day without rain here in the last 7 or 8 days. Still coming down right now.

Gophershooter

If you wanna go pretty and accurate I'd check into a Cooper....I did and love it. Weighs under 9 ibs all up and shoots factory 40's sub .5 moa. or maybe I just got a good one.

Lofter;I know they are damn fine rifles.But My rifles usually wind up on the back seat of the truck with my cow dog jumping from the front to back seat,he would make a mess of a beautiful wood stock like that in short order.I will probably go the Rem.700 route with a synthetic stock. w/regards

An interesting turn of events:

NOSLER .20 CALIBER 40 GRAIN BALLISTIC TIP BULLETS in stock.

http://www.lockstock.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NOS52111

Just got an order in to Lock Stock for 200 of the 40 gr ballistic tip 204 s.

Should have them in a few days so I'll let ya-all know how they shoot. I don't forsee any problem accuracy wise as my Ruger V/T has shot every bullet tried thus far like a drill ; including the longish 40 gr V-Max which some folks have trouble with.......

Sdgunslinger: I just wanted to comment on my interpretation of your "like a drill" Ruger Rifle!
I have never heard the analogy "shooting like a drill"!
Is that a GOOD description?
If it is, then I want to concur with you.
When the 204 Ruger was originally announced I began planning on which REMINGTON Rifle I would like to get this caliber in!
Well the Remington folks were slow to supply their Rifles here in the Rocky Mountains and I finally could not WAIT any longer!
I found a sport shop in Butte, Montana who's owner was "miffed" to the max that he had a couple of Rifles in 204 Ruger but could supply NO ammo to those interested in buying the Rifle! Thus the Rifles (Ruger 77 V/T's) sat on his shelf a while.
My friend Ron and I were perusing this shop when I became aware of his "maddening" situation. In short I got the Rifle for less than he paid wholesale for it! In front of my friend (as a witness) I verified 3 times that he was SURE he wanted to sell this Rifle for that small amount of cash. He did and I bought it.
I already had some ammo on hand from a trip I had made to the west coast just before that!
So I was shooting in no time.
The main reason for this posting though is not to express my "good deal" but to "fess up" in this regard! I had not purchased NEW a Ruger bolt action Varminter for many, many years!
I had some rather poor and some so-so at best experiences with these type Rifles about 20 years ago. Things like poor accuracy, poor triggers, extra long throats, plain wood etc etc etc.
Well I was sure impressed with this Ruger Model 77 V/T in 204 Ruger!
The stock fit me to a "T" and was comfortable and very functional in every mode I tried it in! The trigger was rather pleasing and remains today like it was the day I bought it - crisp and a relatively light pull. Although this trigger IS the military two stage take up type. I have learned to live with that.
The accuracy right out of the box was most pleasing with the factory ammo I had hoarded!
I broke the barrel in with a none to lengthy regimen of shooting and cleaning. The scarcity of ammo and my interest in field performance on Varmints held my shoot and clean regimen to 20 rounds for barrel break in.
Then I decided to try two five shot groups with each ammunition available, back then, to ascertain this Rifles preference.
The Hornady 32 gr. factory ammo made two 5 shot groups at 100 yards measuring .612" and .841". Pleasing, these results were to me! Then I tried the 40 gr. Hornady factory ammo and my two 5 shot groups at 100 yards measured .788" and .530"! The .788" group did have one flier and I decided that the Ruger liked the 40 gr. ammo a little better according to my amazingly short ammo tests.
The Rifle went to Prairie Dog and Rock Chuck colonies first off! It performed splendidly there and I CAREFULLY saved every piece of brass! The lethality of the 204 Ruger on ALL size and species of Varmints REALLY impressed me!
Along the way I was allowed to share in a grand find that one of this forums posters came upon out on the east coast! He had access to once fired Hornady brass (from factory testing?)! He was so gentlemanly as to share his "gold like" find with me!
Now I had enough brass for reloading and hand load testing.
This Ruger 77 liked the Berger 35 gr. bullets and the last two groups I fired with the Berger test loads measured .374" and .595" (5 shots at 100 yards).
Just wanted to give credit where credit is due and the Ruger folks put out a very good looking, very fine performing Rifle.
By buying the Ruger 77 I also felt good to be supporting the Ruger folks after they went through the time, trouble and expense of developing this wonderful new cartridge (along with the Hornady folks!).
Long live Ruger!
Long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Gophershooter
you can get a synthetic stock for your cooper and save the stock for whatever. Check with Dan Cooper first but I believe this is the case.
Regards Jeff

Varmint Guy

Yes , I meant the "drill" comment in a good light......the gun simply drills everything into one little spot .

So far , with four different bullets and three different powders , you can take any of those loads right into a pd town and shoot without any re-sighting whatsoever . Not too shabby in my view . And the trigger on these V/T s is pretty darn nice .

This is the second small caliber Ruger I;ve had in recent years that is not only very accurate but exhibits the trait of shooting nearly any load to the same spot , the other being a sporter weight stainless 223 . Neither one of these rifles has had the bedding fussed with or any other tuning type work done , they just shoot right out of the box . The 223 though , does have the typical hard , tuff trigger pull and I need to get a trigger job done on that one......

Sdgunslinger: Thanks for the clarification and again I concur.
Another fairly recent example in defense of the Ruger Varminters - my good friend Jack bought a 223 Model 77 V/T Ruger a few years ago. This Rifle shot under 1/2" groups immediately! He had a big Bausch & Lomb 8x32 variable on it. Well Jack used it a couple of seasons and then got the "hots" to rechamber this fine Rifle to 221 Remington Fireball! My advice to Jack was PLEASE don't mess with that fine shooting factory Rifle. Who knows what may come of the barrel rechambering job? The fine accuracy may somehow disappear. Buy a factory Rifle in 221 Fireball!
I am glad Jack DID NOT TAKE my advice!
He had Dan Cowen the fine Riflesmith in Renton, Washington do the barrel set back and rechambering for him.
The Rifle once in 221 Fireball caliber shot even BETTER than it did when in 223 caliber!
I mean, it REALLY shot well. He and I shared several Varmint excursions when he used this Rifle and it was a tack driver!
A commendable experience this, regarding the quality of the recent Ruger Varmint barrels!
Long live Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy