I want to build a 20, but cant decide if I want a hot rod... 204 ruger, or something mild like the vartarg. I would think the 20VT should hold it own against any .223 out on the PD fields... To be perfectly honest I want em both...but only have one doner reciever, and its a Savage.

Is there any other brass I can use besides Fireball? I hear that brass is getting hard to find, which would make me lean back towards the 204 ruger....

Just kind of thinking and typing.... any suggestions?

Sir,

with the 20 vt one can go up or down. 17 fireball necked up or 221 fireball necked down or get a set of redding forming dies

I have both the 20 vt and the 20 Tactical. Lapua/Dakota makes brass for the Tac 20.

Todd Kindler at the Woodchuck Den can form the brass if you want to pay to have it done.

Adam Bently who posts here and on Saubier.com is selling custom 20 VT brass.

You could always do a 20 Practical........
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek061.html

Best

GWB

Can't speak to the 20s you mentioned as I have no experience with them. I will say, having owned 3 204s , IMO, the 204 would seem pretty hard to beat. Unless of course you enjoy making or buying custom brass.

My XR 100 in 20VT started as a 204 but I wanted the 20VT so it was shortened and rechambered. The distances I shoot makes the 20VT ideal.
I have made my 20VT brass from 221 Fireball but have also made it from 223 and 222 with no difficulties at all.

From what I've seen of the 20VT it can do very good out to medium ranges, I dont expect it would perform well out past...say 300yds.

Von Gruff... At what range do you shoot it at?

I have 17hmr's a .223, 22-250 and a big 6mm-284, just thinking I need some filler guns.

I have looked at the 20 practical, it does seem like an easy route to take.

The extra case capacity of the .204 Ruger is largely wasted. You'll get surprisingly close to .204 Ruger velocities (and pretty much the same practical range) from the Vartarg. More importantly, the somewhat smaller charges of powder will result in slower heating of the barrel (and generally more rounds fired before barrel cleaning is necessary). There's nothing particularly wrong with the .204 Ruger, but the Vartarg is a more practical PD round.

I have both the 20 VT and 204R. Both are terrific. As others have stated if you want to shoot beyond roughly 300, the 204 is better. Inside that range I like the 20VT.

There are issues with getting the short 20 VT to feed through Rem 700 actions. I speak with expensive experience. Sako A1 actions if you can find one feed from the magazine.

Brass has to be made for the 20 VT and not for the 204. Dies for the VT are very pricey.

I will have both and am contemplating another 20 VT. But if I could only have one, it would be the 204R.

A 20VT would be an excellent "filler" between the 17HMR & 223.
noticeably less noise from the 20VT compared to the 204R and significantly less powder per shot.
velocity loss compared to 204R is not particularly great as the 221 parent case can run higher pressures if required.
Accuracy loads run pretty close velocities between 20VT & 204R for many rifles.

forming 20VT from 17 fireball or 221 is no big deal
& the price difference between 20VT & 204R dies is really small cheese per loaded round, and essentially negated by the smaller powder load.
Volume shooting , methinks you are way in front costwise.

quote:

Originally posted by P-dog shooter:


Von Gruff... At what range do you shoot it at?

I have a best first shot kill on rabbits of 352yds (lasered) but thay is not because of lack of reach for anything further just the areas we shoot. I rabbit ( if it is not sitting up) may only have a target area of 3in x 3in and the accuracy of the 20VT really is an aid in hits - out there. I did put a box of 204 ammo through mine when it was new just to see what the 204 was like so being able to contrast that with the 20VT leaves me with a distinct preference for the VT over the 204. Less bluff and bluster but more than enough for any of the tasks that they might be asked to perform. I have taken goats with the VT as well. really is a great little cartridge.

i'd like to own a .20VT, just so much internet jibberish going around its hard to tell the real from the crap. I like the idea of a small, fast bullet not affected by wind too much. Cheap to shoot, quiet, flat shooting, no recoil, what's not to like. I need to find someone local that has one so i can shoot it and compare to the .204 myself. I cant imagine the round would be effective except in perfect conditions at ranges over 400 yards, but i have no experience with it so its a mystery to me.

HeY Stonecreek! what range would you consider the .20VT effective on p dog in normal everyday shooting conditions in say a 10 mph wind?

quote:

Originally posted by oneshotonly:
HeY Stonecreek! what range would you consider the .20VT effective on p dog in normal everyday shooting conditions in say a 10 mph wind?

First, let me state that I don't own a 20 Vartarg, I am only in lust of one.

However, my experience with .22 Centerfires ranging from .221 Fireball through .22-250 leads me to conclude that there is VERY LITTLE practical difference in range between anything in that category. I own one or more rifles in .221, .222, .223, .222 Magnum, and .22-250 (and two shooting buddys own Swifts). When ranges are under 400 yards, any of them hit with about as much frequency as the others. When ranges are above 400 yards, a 6mm (again, doesn't matter as I've used .243, .244, and 6mm Rem AI) is much more effective than a .22 (or a .20).

I can't tell you how far you can hit with reasonable repeatability with a .20 Vartarg or .204 Ruger. I can tell you that you are unlikely to find a significant difference in what that range is between the two.

I kinda thought the same thing. ballistic charts and chronos are all fun, exciting and educational for what they are intended for. But, real field results are more inline with how i spend my few shooting $ i can put together.

quote:

Originally posted by oneshotonly:
I like the idea of a small, fast bullet not affected by wind too much. Cheap to shoot, quiet, flat shooting, no recoil, what's not to like.

Thats where I am, cheap, quiet, slow heating of the barrel.

I find a considerable difference in shooting the .223 and the 22-250. I load the 22-250 with heavier bullets though, so that might make them more different than just the case alone.

I'm lucky enough to have a place where we can set up five pairs of bowling pins at ranges varying from 150 to 400+ yards. We conduct a timed contest between two benchrested shooters to see who can knock down all of their designated pins in the shortest time with the fewest misses. Each miss adds five seconds to their score, and a hit in the "head" of the bowling ping (above a mark circling the smallest part of the neck) subtracts 5 seconds from their score.

We've had five different shooters "play" this game (which is actually a pretty good analog to prairie dog shooting -- except that the bowling pins don't move ). We've shot every caliber of .22 centerfire I mentioned above in playing this game. The caliber which has consistently turned in the best scores has been a .221 Fireball shooting a 40 grain V-Max at 3350-3400 fps. It is a little more subject to crosswind than a 55 grainer at 3700 fps, but among a variety of shooters and conditions, the little .221 has won their hearts.

That's why I'm lusting for a .20 Vartarg as it would have to be just as sweet.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

That's why I'm lusting for a .20 Vartarg as it would have to be just as sweet.

In the words of the esteemed Ralph Cramden







"How sweet it is"

Best

GWB

H4198 ( AR2207) and a 20VT are a match made in heaven.
very few shooters cannot find a load with that powder that does not work well for them.
Its the GoTo powder for the owner of a new 20VT , you only need to look elsewhere if you are one of the few unlucky ones that can't find a really good load with it .

Nice group with the RL7, GW.
The 10 round group with the 4198 is awesome.

Both of those groups look like they would make one hell of a prairie dog load.

Stonecreek... Thats a good idea with the game and bowling pins, I want to try the same kind of thing but with different sizes of plastic jugs full of water. I havent come up with an easy way to score the game though, smaller targets would have to be worth more than larger ones.

Stonecreek;

If your lust moves towards being sated , suggest a 1:10 barrel to handle the heavier bullets better, but not interfering with the lighter ones.

Works a treat in mine.

quote:

Originally posted by DenisB:
Stonecreek;

If your lust moves towards being sated , suggest a 1:10 barrel to handle the heavier bullets better, but not interfering with the lighter ones.

Works a treat in mine.

Probably a good idea, but I'm speculating that I would prefer the 32's (and some 34's now being offered) over the 39's and 40's. Doesn't hurt to have enough twist to use the heavier ones, though.

By the way, I've had outstanding performance with AA2200 Data Powder in the .221 Fireball, and even in the larger .22 centerfires with light bullets. Has anyone tried it in a .20 Vartarg?

Well,

I feel like I am stirring the poit here but do not mean to. I was thinking the same thing as you regrading caliber choices and went with....20 Practical. Check it out, the easy relaoding, etc. It is a good choice, shoots as well as any of the other 20 calibers, brass is verywhere.

Cheers,

AKMATT

Nothing wrong with the .20/.223 (.20 Practical). In fact, it would have made a lot more sense if Ruger had used that cartridge instead of the somewhat modified .20/.222 Magnum that they introduced as the .204 Ruger.

The .20/.222 may be the best compromise of them all. The only reason I am thinking in terms of the .20 Vartarg instead is my great luck with several .221 Fireballs. The little case simply seems to perform well beyond what you would expect, given its size -- somewhat less powder, somewhat less muzzle blast, virtually as much velocity. And every rifle I've worked with in .221 has been exceedingly accurate.

I own a .17/223 and I GREATLY wish that it were a .17 Fireball instead.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

I own a .17/223 and I GREATLY wish that it were a .17 Fireball instead.

Some might think this was sacrilegious, but not I.

Just scored this last week. Not a fireball, but close..........






Sako Riihimaki, re-barreled to 17 Mach IV.



So now I have the triple deuce and mach IV.

I'm planning to do a couple more based on the Riihimaki action. Now for the 221 fireball, and twenty vartarg. May even break down and do a 6 x 45.

Best

GWB

Stone: This one(a 17 Mach IV), was once a 17-223. Kevin

I can't tell if that's an O'brien or an H&R Wildcat, but either is/was a fine little beauty.

I suppose that I could unscrew the barrel on my .17/223 H&R and have one of the same contour built in .20 Vartarg or whatever I wanted and installed in its place. Assuming I found a competent gunsmith to do the work, the original barrel could be re-installed and thus restore its value when my heirs sell my "leave behinds".

GW: I notice that the new L46 Mach IV has a buttstock all messed up with "squiggly" wood. Kevin G's got a bunch of those messed up stocks, but he apparently just puts a paper bag over them to avoid embarassment and takes them prairie dog hunting, anyway.

I shoot three of the 20's mentioned...
20 Vartarg...20 Practical...20 BR...
I assembled the BR this spring..so it is the newest to me..all three of these rifles are heavy..16-18#...s/shot Savage actions w/Pac Nor tubes..the VT & PT have 12 twist/3 groove...the BR is a 9 twist/3 groove...p/dogs are my game...so weight is no issue....but really helps keep any muzzle jump to a minimum..bullets..the 40 gr V max is all I need..the BR has the twist to handle 55 Bergers..but does not give the full effect of the explosive 40 V max...which is better ? All have their place..the VT is quiet with only a 19 gr charge..but is devastating even at 500 yds on dogs clocked at 3550 fps..the PT...26 gr charge...is awesome @ 3900 fps...it will right twist a dog 10-12' off his mound even at 500 yds..but has confirmed kills out to 800...the BR is still new to me..built on a Savage Target action..14 oz trigger...18# of p/dog terror...28" bbl w/no taper...doesn't jump much from the table..have not clocked it yet..or decided on a load for the 40 V's...using Norma 6BR parent brass...Hard to decide which one is best....so I'll keep shootin' all three...

My build will be similer to armed's, heavy, maybe slight taper, I'm thinking 1.125 at muzzle, savage action, glass stock. I just have a standard old Savage 110 though.

Hey there Utah. what are w looking at in the pic you posted? seems like simple well thought out rifle there, i like the adjustable check rest and it that a quick change barrel setup??

Well i pulled the trigger and picked up a Savage model 12 in .204. I have yet to shoot it as I've been very busy and cant get to the range.
If i remember it has a 12 twist, I could be wrong.
Any thoughts as to the best factory loads to start with.
I'm also in the market for reloading equipment, so the obsession begins!!!

Oneshot, when you start handloading try the 39 gr. Sierra bullet. It will outrange the 32's by a good 100 yards. Don't handicap it by shooting 32's like most of the others do. Most 12 twist barrels will group the 39 gr. bullet much better than the 40's.