i have a 222 that is not shooting good enough for me and figured time to get a left hand varmit rifle.So here is question i'm thinking of switching to either 204 ruger or 223 but not sure which is best for me or if there is better choices.My hunting is for fox which want to have little pelt damage and hopefully get a chance at bobcat sometime with the coyote probally being shot most.now the hunting on farm is 130 yards shots being long but when i go bobcat probally longer which i haven't hunted bobcats yet.so what do you recommend if you have preference in southpaw available bolt gun that advice is also welcome.


don't need an ar i prefer a bolt for this gun

.222 or .223.With an accurate rifle and the right bullet selections mox nix. roger

Bear, I just got a CZ 204 Ruger and it is a dandy. 32gr bullet @ 4200fps or a 40gr bullet @ 3800fps ought to do it. Darn accurate too for a very lightweight and compact rifle. Very handy indeed. No recoil at all. I don't know if they make a lefty though. Perhaps Ruger has the 204 Ruger in left handers.

I would go 223,14 twist, with a reamer ground to "sporter" specs, not a mil spec with it's long throat. For fox a 50gr bullet is tops and you might even want to shoot a 40.

If just for coyote, then I'd say 204 or 223. When you throw in bobcat and fox then you should consider one of the .17 cal like the Fireball. At reasonable distances you will be able to kill coyotes, fox and bobcat with the 17 using the smaller 20-30 grain bullets. The chances of pelt damage will be reduced alot. I would guess your shots at bobcat will be much closer and wouldn't be surprised if you were able to get by with a good 12 guage shotgun/choke combo using something like #4 buck or even Rem HD in BB, or maybe one of the .17 rimfires.


I have shot plenty of coyotes, a number of fox and one bobcat with my .223 using 40 gr. V-Max at 3,300, all with what I consider to be pretty good shot placement. I have been very pleased with minimal pelt damage on most of the coyotes. Some of the fox were fine, but some had some fairly sizable holes that needed stitching. The bobcat needed a full spool of thread. Give the 17s a look, like the Rem SPS Varmint, which comes in lefty (17 Fireball is discontinued, but you may be able to find one).

I have used .223 & .22-250's a lot for coyotes and bobcat and will tell you bullet selection is the key to minimizing fur damage.

I'd seriously consider ericts' comments. If fox are common I'd probably go with a .17 or a .204 and plan on loading frangible bullets, possibly even having to slow them down.

My fur load uses a 52gr Speer HP, flat base and has a large open point out of my .223's. I do have a box of the new Noslers to try.
I found the blitz and Hornady sx to be great in slow twist barrels but they don't hold up to 1:10 or faster. The 52gr Speer rarely exits on cats and coyotes but I've never shot a fox with one. Nate

Rebarrel the 222 to 20Vartag....rather than the 20Ruger option.
less noise & less recoil than the 20Ruger & almost the same ballistics.
Your choice of match barrel for less than the cost of a new factory rifle & expectations of better accuracy than factory from the custom rebarrel.
20VT will feed without any mods to your 222 magazine or rails.

1:10" twist if you go 20Cal to make sure you can stabilised the heavier 20 cal projectiles to use on coyotes.
32 gn for your fox loads.

If the species mix is more towards coyotes I would go with the 223........but the 20VT pushing 40 Bergers will be quite adequate for coyotes methinks.

Congrats!Your's is the first .222 I've heard of that doesn't shoot well.Just kidding.All the same I would first exhaust all possibility's as to why it's not shooting well and go from there.It really is about the best Eastern varmint cartridge around.If you still want something else the .22PPC/.222 Mag/.223 are all excellent choices.Where in NY are you hunting?I'm about 30 miles N of Utica.

thanx for input i live in between rochester and syracuse on the lake ontario.short term i borrowed a ar in 223 that the scope mount aims 2 ft high but the standard peep sight is dead on at approx 60 yards.And a friend at work is going to bring in his 22 mag for me to use for now,He also has a 17 hmr which he suggested the 22 instead.i guess i'm leaning toward the 204.I noticed factory offers come in lengths of 22-26 inch tubes.


My current 222 is a savage 340b i think the accuracy issue is the side mount but figure sell this and upgrade

your in a trade off position..You want the ultimate varmint rifle but no pelt damage, ain't gonna happen, not eve with solids unless you slow it way down...Your best bet in your case would probably be a 22 Hornet or even a 22 WMR...

I personally like the 222 and back when skins were worth big bucks and the docked you for bullet holes, I loaded it down with cast bullets and they didn't kill real well but I almost always found the animal and I shied away from thick stuff...

Today an pelts are no longer valuable I use my 6x45, 222 Rem at regular velocity..One can repair a torn skin up to a point.