I went out and did a little chronographing of the 223 using RL 7 this time. I have more faith in its consistency over Benchmark, for continuity.

Brass: Lake City

Primers: Rem 6 1/2

Rifle: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch barrel.

27 grains with a 40 grain Ballistic Tip gave me consistent velocities in the 4050 to 4100 range.
( the extent of high and low spreads). I have found once a load has been shot 20 times or so in a bore, it seems to settle down on the extreme of its deviation spread and also becomes more accurate, with the barrel cleaned or not. Don't ask me why, It just seems to happen. Or maybe me as a shooter is getting use to the load. Doesn't a little VooDoo place an important part in reloading varmint cartridges???/

I also tested RL 7 at 28.5 grains ( pretty much a full case) on necked sized cases, and then tested the following bullets to see if there were any pressure signs. This will give me a point of reference to chronograph them and check them for accuracy at the range once the snow we just got melts off some.

40 grain Ballistic Tip
40 Grain Blitz King
40 Grain Sierra HP
45 grain Hornady SP
46 Grain Winchester HP

You see a lot of load data for RL 7 on the 222 but not the 223. I think why is that newer powders are more trendy for the 223. Rl 7 was much more popular when the 222 was much more popular and more work was done with that powder.
I really believe most RL 7 data I found as a point of reference is actually 222 data.

Lyman's 47th Edition manual lists a max of 23.5 grains with RL 7 and a 40 grain bullet with a velocity of 3590 fps.

NO pressure signs and easy case extractions were had with all the loads. This easily walks the 223 into 22/250 territory with 40 grain bullets.

As with all loads, smart reloaders work up in their rifles. Please do so with these suggested loads. The noise level was stepped up a notch, and did notice an increase in recoil, even with the Ruger Heavy Barrel. However, not many people think a 223 kicks that much, but just letting you know in advance.

Those little sage rats are going to be a little less safe at 300 plus yards this varmint season with this potential out of one of my 223s.

Cheers and Good shooting
Thunderbolt

The velocity seems a good 200 fps too high regardless of the lack of pressure signs. Not a flame. Just my 2cents.

Thunderbolt,

The P47 was my favorite WW11 plane by the way.

I looked at one internal program and it shows 23.8 grs of RL 7 as the maximum load in a 223. The velocity from a 26" tube calculates to 3800 fps at 67,600 psi.

I suppose it's a good load in your rifle but a hundred years from now it won't matter.

Savage,

I have one of the reload manuals, Hodgdon's 26th that lists the load data of 24 grains of Reloader 7 for a 40 grain bullet also, and lists the Pressure at only 45,000 CUPs and an MV of 3559 fps.

That is why I listed the rifle etc, as some models have a lot different throats. My Rem 700 VLS is tight throated so I will try that load data in the rifle and see what happens. However in all 3 of my factory Rugers and my Winchester Model 70, that load data gave no problems.

Interesting to note also is that the 25 and 26 grain loads, actually had blow back residue indicating that the case did not full expand in the chamber in the Ruger rifles! That would indicate lower pressure.

I was told the same thing about using 50 grains of H380 in a 243 with a 55 grain Ballistic tip. People were telling me I was going to kill myself and others when my rifle blew up like an atom bomb. They kept telling me all load information gave a max load of like 44 or 45 grains, and I was way over max.

Then Nosler comes out with their load data with that bullet and H 380 and they actually recommended 53 grains as MAX!

Yes I work up, and the results surprised me. However, that is consistently what the results were and I thought there might be a few reloaders and varminters interested in the findings.


FVA: OH my chronograph has been accused of being off a lot by others. However tested next to a Oehler it gives the same results. At times I get velocities 200 fps LOWER, than reload manuals tell me I should get.

I usually chalk up the descrepency to bullet seating depths and how close or far the bullet is off the lands.

Real proof is going to come when it is varmint season. If I can zero it for sage rats at 300 and 400 yds, and it hits them with high consistency: I really don't care what the velocity is. Like the rest of us, I am only interested in end results, not figures.

Cheers
thunderbolt

P47D,

I wasn't questioning you chronographs accuracy.
I have a couple 223's and am getting a 223 AI project in the works.
From my experience and load data I've seen 3800 fps seems to be the top end for 223 velocities with 40 gr. bullets. Some guys with 223AI's are getting 4000 with 40's.
I don't think your lack of pressure signs means that you aren't over.
I don't know that it matters but I'd be uncomfortable nyself.

There are so many what if's to pressure from just data. As Hagel said each rifle is an indvidual.

If the velocity is correct at over 4000 fps then one wonders?

What about a variable of an oversize bore? That never comes up but every .224 bore in the world can't be the same?

In summary the .204 might be fun but I don't see it running all over a 40 gr .223 let alone the Swift.

At my current understanding velocity is a good pressure indicator. I will adjust powder charges to achieve a given velocity ,for that powder, higher or lower than given in manuals. But when I reach the max velocity given, I stop wether I'm below,at, or above max charges given.

FVA:

Being on the safe side is the way to go. No one with any brains will ever fault you for that.

I will see what happens after some reloads. The brass will give up the ghost before the rifle will. If I have short brass life, that is the best indicator of overload pressures.

I am less concerned about a slightly overloaded 223 than I am say a slightly overloaded 300 Weatherby.

One grain less of R L 7 did give velocity in the 3800+ range, for those inquiring minds.

Just so many sources list pressures that vary a lot with the same loads. That is why I rely on what I find out on my own for a load. As we all have or will experience if we handload for a while, some loads in your own rifle may be excessive pressured, way before you reach the manual's max load.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Just for a comparison, this afternoon I took my daughter to the range for a handgun lesson and also the .204 using the new 32 grain Sierras and the 39 grain version. I also shot a couple groups with the Hornady 32's using the 28.3 grains of Accurate 2230.......they went 4334! There was only one recorded velocity on the Sierra 32's.....4537fps!!! I don't beleive it either so that's why it will get retested!!! However the 4334 fps is right there with 4 other range tests using that one!
On a side note, the only group I shot with the 39 grain Sierras over the chrony(25.0 grains of Accurate 2230, Federal 205 Match primer, COL 2.371) turned in 3645fps. There are a couple grains left to play with on that one and 3850-4000 using it will be doable if accurracy is there!!! You folks try some of this AA2230 in your .204's!! And maybe some of you ought to try it in your .223's!!! After all, I'm getting 3740fps out of a 20" 40X barrel in .222MAG using it and the 40's!!! Just think what ya'll might do with the everpotent .223!!!!!!! GHD

GHD;

How do those 20 caliber bullets do at longer ranges. I have gotten 4700 fps out of a 35 grain VMax in a 22/250. However the bullet has lousy BC so it was not usable for any long range work.

I did get to the range with some reloads with 28 grains of RL 7 and 40 grain Ballistic tips and 40 grain Sierra HPs. Velocity chronographed at about 4050 fps, with a SD of about 20fps.

The other reward was in an old Ruger VT ( first year production, black receiver, stainless steel factory barrel), at 100 yds, I was getting 4 and 5 shot one hole groups! Scope set on 8 power. Scope is an older Tasco 8 x 32 x 44 Target scope.

Needless to say that rifle has its new varmint season diet planned out. I am pleased with the results.

Cheers
thunderbolt

P47D, The longest I have done any testing using the 32's is 400 yards and that was also testing a NIKON 6.5-20 for repeatability and they worked great!!! Dial the scope up to 400, bust one of the plastic Miller Lite bottles(2.876"x7.9" or so.....about Prarie Dog size) dial itback down to 100, print a little .4" or less group then dial back up! CONSISTENTLY did what it was supposed to do!! I will get them tested at 450,500,550,600,700 soon! But for now they seem to follow the computer generated "click charts" absolutely perfect! Am I expecting to make the Varmint Hunters 1000 yard club with it? NO! But it will do a very very good job at the other levels! I'll try to post some results as I get the testing done! GHD

I think the new .204 Cartridge is very interesting and I have seriously considered one..I have three .223 AI Rifles and have really enjoyed them over the years.....I can get a tad over 4000 fps with the 40 grain BT and about 3750 fps with the 50 gr. V-Max. I have been using H-4198 for the 40 gr. and Benchmark with the 50 gr. bullet...I haven't tried RL 7 but I use H-335 for PD hunting because it meters so well...I usually set up about 100 seperate cases with the 40 & 50 gr. bullets just for Groundhogs and Coyotes....I'm going to Texas in Feb. Coyote hunting and I am going to try the 40 gr. bullets and see how well they work....The .204 shoots a little flatter and pack a little more energy out past 250 yds or so but not by much.....It will be interesting to see how the 40 grs. work on the big dogs.....If anyone else is using the .223 AI, I would like to hear from the .....George