I'm tinkering with a Savage 12FV in 22-250, after being talked into trading for one by a friend, and a couple of forum members at other sites...

I got a good deal on the rifle, but I must say that even though it's accurate (1/4" at 100 yards is almost too easy), I can't quite get excited about the caliber.

I do shoot .223's for 150 yards and under. I like the .223 for what it is. I loaded some 22-250 cartridges with 36.5 grains of Varget, and some with 34 grains of IMR 4895, both with 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. The IMR load was the accuracy winner here, shooting extremely tight from the 26" heavy barrel of the Savage.

However, comparing the ballistics to a moderately charged .243, I find the 22-250 lacking. Believe it or not, recoil is very similar--even though the .243 I routinely shoot is a sporter barreled rifle.

My .243 is an honest 1/2 MOA shooter, and when I use the 36.5 grain Varget load with the Sierra 85 grain BTHP, it is really easy on the shoulder and the barrel, and it hits quite a bit harder than the 55 grain 22-250 at 250 yards and beyond.

I'm not bashing the 22-250 at all. I'd been meaning to try one, and may keep this one (It's without a doubt one of my most accuarte rifles).

And the trajectory is flatter than that of my .243 shooting the 85 grainers, but I can always load 55 grain Noslers in the .243 to 4000 fps, surpassing the top speed of the 55 grainers in the 22-250 by a couple of hundred fps, and that with a higher BC bullet.

My problems with the 22-250 seem to be primarily the ho-hum terminal ballistics at long (beyond 300 yard) ranges, and the extremely rapid heating of the barrel. I shot five times in five minutes and the barrel was just about too hot to touch, and the shots began to string badly in the next group. I allowed the barrel to cool, and the groups returned. I'm not used to rifle barrels heating this fast.

I'm open to educating here. I'll take all pro's and con's, but I'm leaning toward swapping the Savage for a vintage Remington 700 BDL in 30-06, as a friend wants to trade even...

Dan Newberry
green 788

The high velocity .22's are neat varmint rounds. They shoot flatter than anything and have the least ricochets.

I think it's just hot out now. Barrels in .22's burning 36 grs of powder will heat up the same as .243's burning the same amount.

I have seen chucks taken cleanly out to 400 yards with the .22-250. But we always use 55 gr Sierra Spitzers.

It's true the 6mm's and bigger calibers hit harder at very long range but 300 yards is long range to me!

I skip some of the threads on long range game shooting. I like to get closer and bag them.

By the way your not loading that .243 to it's best varminting potential with that bullet. I know you like it but the 70 gr Sierra Blitzking will shoot further and flatter.

I hunt chucks with a .219 K Zipper that shoots a 50 gr Sierra at 3600 fps. I limit myself to 300 yards. This is satisfying to me.

You sound like a very knowledgeable shooter to me and as far as I can tell you answered your own question quite well by covering all the pertinent bases. You have seemingly come up with the correct answer about what advantages the 22-250 has over the 243 and they can be summed up in one word...................NONE

Not meaning to be a wise-guy but I guess we could say the same for the 25-06 vrs. 243? Just another step in the ladder.
I do alot of coyote calling and to me you just can't kill a coyote any deader then a 243 does, yet some people see the 25-06 as a real stand em on their head round. I have all three and end up using the 22-250 most. Lack of recoil, less noise,and I find it is about as small as I like to put a dog down with a hit almost anywhere. There is a place for the 22-250. Pete

I used to bash the 243 quite often until I shot one. I now have (2) 22-250's that sit in the safe. I shoot a decent number of 'yotes a year. I prefer the 70 Speer TNT. It doesn't exit. I think you cover many more bases with a .243 from 55 grains to 107 grains. In fact I've gotten some loads from you and thought you were a die-hard 243 man? They're all fun, and we could all use another gun. Get it, but ballistically, I don't think a 22-250 has any unfilled niche with a 243 already in the stable.

I did end up trading the Savage 22-250 for the afformentioned Remington 700 BDL in 30-06. I guess I got a good trade on the BDL because it isn't deer season, and the shop owner was wanting to ditch some heavy caliber rifles and he figured he'd be able to move the 22-250 fast this time of year.

I shot the aught-six and was releived that it did shoot MOA, even without bedding or a trigger job, and with factory Winchester ammo on top of that. I think I did the right thing...

The load I use in my main .243 is easy on the barrel, and light in recoil. It's Sierra's recommended 36.5 grains of Varget behind their 85 grain BTHP. It works, and works well, and I think my experience with this rifle and recipe are what really pushed me over the edge in trading the 22-250. A light .243 is a truly wonderful field rifle, and loaded with the 85's can knock down larger game if called upon to do so.

Currently I'm loving life with my old Winchester 270, a model 70 made in 1953. I bedded the recoil lug and tang, and left the barrel channel alone. It shoots 1/2 MOA with either Sierra or Hornady 130 grainers pushed by 60 grains of H4831 and a CCI 200 primer.

I hit a groundhog at 335 yards (lasered) yesterday afternoon with the above mentioned combination. Since I use a 3 to 9 power scope I am able to *just* catch a glimpse of the bullet's strike as the rifle recoils away from POA at that range. I was pretty sure I'd hit the critter. The animal had fallen behind the rock he'd been sitting on, and the rock was behind a *wicked* electric fence that I don't at all enjoy wiggling under. (Yeah, it's racked up three hits on me over the years... )... YEEEOWW!!

This time, although I was hunting alone, there was no need to go see if I'd made the shot. The .270 had left plenty of indication in the affirmative in the form of a wide trail of blood running down the side of the rock where the animal had been. Gotta love that!

Anyway, I'm certain that the 22-250 will continue for eons to come as the premier varminter. For shots under 300 yards, I won't dissuade anyone from choosing that chambering.

I will mention, however, that when you begin connecting with a .270, or a 25 or 30 aught-six, or any other major game caliber--at long range on a varmint, you're going to be spoiled.

Spoiled and probably converted ...

Dan Newberry
green 788

I shoot both a lot a I find the 22 250 just a little easier to shoot all day in the p dog towns and the 243 just a bit easier to hit with in the wind. Overall I shoot the 22 250 more.

I don't know much at all about smaller calibers. Are ricochets less dangerous from a light 22 caliber bullet than a heavier 6 mm?

H. C.

How about throwong the 22-243 in the ring for this evaluation.

75 grain projectiles at 3600+. Easy One pull of the press conversion from 243.

It really is an outstanding alternative.

788,

I don't think the 22-250 has any advantages over the .243 especially now that there are so many fine lightweight .243 bullets on the market. The 22-250 is an excellent round but I like a bit more explosive expansion on varmints and the .243 certainly has that in spades. I spent last weekend eradicating Jackrabbits on my hunting lease and what a 75 gr Hornady hollow point will do to a squarely hit Jack is nothing less than phenomenal. Plus it is a decent deer killer too. The 22-250 is not a deer gun, at least not one I would trust like I do my .243s.

After tiring of wind conditions in western Nebraska affecting the 22/250, I
got a Rem700BDL 25/06 back in the '70's when it was considered a supreme
varmint rifle. Cartridges were offered with 75gr bullets. Recoil was still
tolerable and my p-dog score/percentage went up drastically. 6mm bullets
on up buck the wind a lot better, but I will never knock the 22/250. She's
one heck of a nice little cartridge, and a deer-getter for many, and
mercilessly so in the hands of a good hunter/shooter!

Almost all of my varmint hunting has been and is done with high velocity .224's. I have had a .243 Win since 1957 but I find it noisy and it has a greater chance of a richocet.

When the range is less than 400 yards the .243 just has more blast and recoil and I almost never shoot over 300 yards. I just hunt the animals. Of course I have done some long range shooting but not that often. So for me .22-250 ballistics are what I want.

However it is the "news" that the new 55 and 58 gr 6mm bullets are available with good ballistic coeffients. But I can't get them to shoot in my .243 so it has no effect on me.

Has anyone here ever read the works of Charles Landis? He wrote books like "Hunting with the .22" and in all of his books the report of the rifle was mentioned. Noise does matter when hunting in populated areas. I bring this up in a .22-250 thread but the noise from a Hornet and even a .222 Rem is a lot less than the .243 Win. which is a real cannon.

So there is a place for the .224's not to disparage the 6mm's at all.

When I go varmint hunting I carry my .219 K-Zipper (50 gr 3600 fps) most of the time. It's just right for me.

.22-250 have shorter flight time with a given distance. If a target moves there's lesser lead and higher chance to hit. But you have traded it for 30-06 which can still be doubled as a varmint rifle.

I do plan on making the 30-06 accurate enough to hit groundhogs at long range. It appears very promising at this time.

I should mention that I think I would have found the 22-250 a lot more appealing in a *light* rifle. The Savage 12 FV, while it possessed the accuracy to enrage many a custom rifle owner (and builder), was too heavy to tote around in the field. (An aside here--When you encounter a shooter who assaults the Savage rifle on how it looks, you've probably found a shooter who has had his arse chapped by someone shooting said "Rosie O'Donnel looking rifle" )...

An acquaintance has a 22-250 in a Remington BDL with a sporter barrel. He's got a Simmons 6.5 to 20 power scope on it, but it doesn't look unbalanced. That's a great shooting rifle, 1/2 MOA being the rule. It has had no accuracy work whatsoever, not even a trigger job. It shoots like that right out of the box. He shoots moly coated 55's in front of 34 grains of IMR 4895. It really works.

So there is one definite advantage of the 22-250: its inherent *accuracy*. I love my .243's, but anyone who has loaded for that chambering (or searched for an adequately accurate factory round) will attest that the .243 is *finicky!*

The new Winchester "varmint packs" of their 45 grain 22-250 load can be had from Walmart for under 15 dollars *for 40 rounds*... And practically every 22-250 I've noted shoots this round well under an inch.

The 22-250's are ACCURATE! You can't take that away from them...

As for noise, maybe it was just the 26" Savage barrel, but that thing cracked like a bullwhip between the ears. The frequency of the blast is much higher, and seemed to easily find its way around my foam ear plugs. Yeah, .243's have a distinctive report as well... I once correctly identified a .243 by its muzzle blast alone from the other side of a ridge.

Anyway, it's possible that some 22-250 shooters have felt impugned by this discourse, and that simply shoudn't be. I'd hate for anyone to go trade off a great shooting '250 only to wind up with a cantankerous, bitchy .243...

And believe me, there are a lot of them out there...

Dan Newberry
green 788

Greeny:
No problem, any varmint rifle is fun. I wouldn't sell my 243, 6mm Rem., 25/06, or any of my 9 22cf's or 2 17's. Get the idea, varmint rifles are all fun.
I just picked up a JC Higgens M50 (FN Mauser) that is super clean and in 30/06. I had a nice classic stock hanging around I made up for a 98 Mauser about 12yrs. ago. After rebedding it the frist thing I did was pick up some 110gr. Speers and some 150 Sierras. I want to shoot a deer this fall and try it on a few coyotes also. Never used the 110gr. bullets on coyotes. Pete

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[ 06-18-2002, 05:35: Message edited by: waldog ]

Own both chamberings and find my 22-250 used most with the 55 grain bullet. My 243 loves Watson 65 grain benchrest bullets. I see a little difference in performance as the 243 with the 65 gr. Watson bullet is devastating on woodchucks. Both rifles shoot extremely well with Varget powder, and both are Savage.
The 22-250 is just a smidgen easier on the ears and shoots a little less Varget. The 243 is real sleeper when it comes to shooting varmints with those lighter weight bullets now available. Many 243 owners do not realize they can get better accuracy from benchrest bullets and they work as well as the varmint bullets made by Sierra, Hornaday, Speer. The 65 grain HP Watson bullet gives the same performance as the 75 HP Sierra bullet. The 65 gr. Watson benchrest bullets sells for 180 bucks a thousand.
One thing is certain this old boy will continue to shoot the Watson bullet in his 243 because of the accuracy and the devastating effect it gives on chucks.
Both cartridges are very accurate but the advantage goes to the 243 with the 65 gr. HP at the longer distances in equally prepared rifles with 26" heavy barrels.