I have a Remington 700VSSF .220 Swift that will shoot 1/2 inch and less 150 yard groups with a Leupold 4.5-14x40 scope. The new Leupold VX-III 8.5-25x 50 scope is attracting my interest. Has anyone used an 8.5x25 scope and how do you like it for Varmint shooting? I am somewhat concerned that it may be too much power.

I think the big bell scopes are a waste of money. Plus they look like shit sitting on top of a rifle. Kinda like a monkey fxxxing a football. IMO, your scope choice, 4x14, is just about prime. I've killed about a truckload or two of sage rats with a 12x Weaver. I sometimes wisht I had a varible on that varmint rifle but I wouldn't want anything more powerful than what you've got.

I have to agree that the 8.5 X 25 power Leupold is tempting, but have just about decided that the 4.5 X 14 is the very best all around varmint scope.

I own three 6.5 X 20 Leupold's and they are great scopes. But they are about the limit on the amount of power you can utilize with a 22 caliber varminter, no matter what the case is. I have killed prairie dogs at a measured 600 yards with a 22-250 and the 20 power was plenty. Past that and the 22 calibers sort of give up the ghost. I have killed prairie dogs at close to 800 yards with a 6mm Remington and I guess a 25 power would have been nice, but really not necessary.

A couple of friends have the 8.5 X 25 Leupold's and they find the heat waves to be distracting at 20 plus power, AND to my eyes at least, the scopes are dimmer at over 20 power.
When you start turning the power past 20 the amount of light transmitted to the eye seems to drop off in my estimation.

Unless you are a dedicated LONG RANGE shooter, stick with your 4.5 X 14. (I own five of them and they are my favorite scopes.)

R F

I've been shooting 4x16's for varmints and in the summer anything above 12x is about impossible to use. I'm getting a 6x24 next, but I only expect to be able to use the higher end during the winter months.

Lone Bull, Fjold & R Flowers: I have four of the wonderful Leupold 8.5X25X40mm scopes on various Varmint and Big Game Rifles I use presently. My latest Antelope/Mule Deer Rifle is a Remington Sendero in 270 Winchester and it uses the Leupold 8.5X25X40mm scope. This Rifle I bought new last year and using those high speed pointy flat flying Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tips I harvested 3 head of Big Game last fall. Including an excellent Buck Antelope and a 25" Mule Deer! That scope worked perfectly for me last year while Big Game Hunting here on the high plains!

I have a hard time warming up to the looks or necessity of 50mm objective lenses. I have never owned one. But I have looked through and used them at the range several times. Again a hard time warming up to them.

The more powerful a scope on a particular Rifle the better the Rifle will shoot! If you want the most accuracy wise out of your Rifle use more scope power!

If you wait til midday after a late spring rain then you will certainly notice heat waves! Solution turn the scope power selector ring down to where the waves diminish.

Now if you are shooting Colony Varmints (like Rock Chucks, Prairie Dogs and Ground Squirrels) at extended ranges then the more power you have the more hits you will make. Another solution to some problems - get up early and hit a Dog Town or a Chuck Colony just at sunrise sometime and you will be well rewarded. Not only less mirage but better shooting! This is one reason I prefer to sleep out in the fields, in my VarmintMobile, and hit the towns/colonies early. Less mirage, less wind (less windburn), less direct sun (sunburn), better chance for a Coyote, better chance for a Badger, better chance for a Fox, and the rising sun at your back keeps the Varmints befuddled as to your whereabouts and they remain above ground longer trying to identify you or your location. Staying on the prairie and getting after them early prevents the "gee this motel bed is so comfy" and "I wonder how good that cafes coffee is" syndromes! I literally DOUBLE my shooting by staying on the prairie and not having to travel out to the Colonies in the morning and back to town in the evening! I have given up enough Colony Varminting secrets in that last tangent! But I reiterate the best shooting I find is in the morning!

I think the Leupold 8.5X25X40mm variable was the best Colony Varmint scope ever made! I simply love them! If you are shooting every rodent that moves at 50 to 150 yards then there are probably better scopes. I prefer the 200 to 500 yard distant mature (larger) Varmints and the 8.5X25 really shines there! My greatest joy is sucking a big old mature Prairie Dog out of his mound while he is bridging across his hole chirping at me with just his forehead and eye showing! I especially like to do this out past 300 yards like I said and the 8.5X25 is about tops for this!

Now, visualize another handy use for the 25X high end of the big variables. Load development! Or just an impromptu bench rest competition with your self. The 25X does make a difference in these situations over a top end 20X or 14X. I have a Leupold 4.5X14 on a 25/06 and it is an excellent scope. Out west anyway I think it is not the best all around Varminting scope. My 6.5X20's in my opinion are the winners there. I can do everything well with them from night calling to long distance Varminting.

I have 8.5X25's on my Sendero 270 Big Game Rifle and on the following heavy barreled Varminters - a custom 6mm Ackley Improved, a custom 6mm Rem. BR and a custom 17 MachIV. I have killed Coyotes, Rock Chucks and Prairie Dogs beyond 300 yards with this little 17 MachIV. I know everyone tells me that is way to much power for such a short range caliber but hey.. maybe that is why I have made such long shots with it and have so much fun with it?

Why Leupold ever quit producing the 8.5X25X40mm is beyond me! I have to buy them used now! If you enjoy the looks of the 50mm 8.5X25 then I say go for it. I know once you get it afield you will like it!

Good luck whichever you choose to go with.

Hol into the wind

VarmintGuy

I strongly agree with Varmint Guy. Many years ago when I first started shooting PDs, I had (and still have)a Ruger in 22-250 topped with a Leupold Vari XII 6 X 18 scope. I made lots of hits but I craved more power because I was having a low success rate on the 350 yd plus hits. 2 years ago I bought a Remington 700 VS also in 22-250 and put a Nightforce 8 X 32 X56MM on it. I now had the power I wanted and it definitely made a better shooter out of me. I can honestly say in the 350 to 450 yd range I have an 80% success rate provided the winds are no stronger than 15 MPH.
I've never had a problem with heat rising from the barrel because I just won't allow it to get that hot. Some will say it's the difference between the 2 rifles, it's not, with the right handload they both shoot sub 1/4 " groups at 100 yds all day long.

How much power you want is your decision. Some people like it,some don't. I think it's great!!!!

Sedakota: I have never owned a Nightforce scope but I have shot through them several times at my old Rifle range in Seattle. They are nice! I was impressed with their clarity and the sophisticated reticles available in them!

I have always tried to get one on a good deal trade at a gunshow but they hold their value (high prices) quite stingily! I do use all of the NightForce Companies spotlights and lenses and batteries though for my night Hunting. Great stuff and its rugged, dependable and built for the job at hand specifically.

Good for you on the success at long ranging the PD's!

In the last several decades on numerous occassions I have traded scopes on Rifles. Almost always I have traded up in power! According to my memory (and more reliably my loading log!) when I trade up in power the new group sizes shrink!

Have you noticed that. I get the drift from your posting that maybe your Varmint bullets (I assume you are shooting Varmint bullets in your two Rifles) are about maxed out grouping ability wise at .250" groups. There is merit in that observation and I tend to go along with it. But I think if you were to switch scopes maybe that extra 12X would diminish your groups on the first Rifle somewhat!

Granted the folks at the BR matches on occassion claim that switching to the new 45X scopes did not improve the season averages for a particular Rifle. Well 36X to 45X does not have the same visual impact and resulting smaller groups like when I have switched from a 12X up to an 18 power or a 14X to a 25X! Yeah I like, and can use, a lot of power on my Varminting variable scopes!

Another Varminting secret I use when mirage is making my intended targets appear loose focus (clarity) or to seemingly dance around, is - gaining altitude! Yeah I set myself up on hills even if they are only 10 to 20 feet high. The set up angle from atop a hill or rise can help diminish the mirage effects under most conditions. I have even set up on top of the canopy of my VarmintMobile and had success diminishing mirage. And I am guessing my Rifle/scope is then just 8' off of the ground then.

Keep those Remingtons clean Sedakota the new season is coming!

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

seafire: Your posting is filled with ambiguous and confusing allegations that go no where and make no point what so ever.

I think you owe the gentleman with the Nightforce scope an apology!

And as far as your Rifle with the 6X scope working just fine at 300 yards for Prairie Dogs then that shows your inexperience in that arena!

Let me clearly state a point here, which you can not do by the way - yes a person could hit a Prairie Dog with a Rifle and a 6x scope at that range on occassion. But a Rifle with a large variable scope would perform heads and tails above that 6X equipped rig. The large variable would provide not only a more pleasing hit/kill ratio (fewer wounded Varmints etc) it would be more fun to use! Calling a scope of 6X "a fine" 300 yard Prairie Dog optic when other powers are available is a mighty stretch! I started shooting Prairie Dogs when 6X scopes were one of the top powers available to the common person. I bless the new high power variable scopes as a tremendous enhancement to Varminting.

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

I'm a fan of the 40mm tubes. I have some 50's. They are on guns I don't carry too far. I agree with VG on the 25's. You can always turn the power down. Its nice to have the extra power doing your range work. I have a 36x for some of that. Failing eyes. Its also nice if you have to count points if your state has antler restrictions.I know were talking varmints here. You never know... you might put that scope on your deer rifle.
Back to the subject...To me, the more power the better on my varmint rifles. The smallest scope I have on a varmint rig is a 4.5x14 burris ballistic plex on a .17 hmr. If they made it in a higher power I would have bought it. But thats just me. If weight is a issue go with the smaller scope.
sedakota, I don't own a nightforce yet. I'm going to get one someday though. I have heard nothing but good about them.I just want to know how you can go on a varmint hunt and not let your gun get hot. Can any one help me with that one. If I have 4 rifles on the tail gate of my truck and the shootin is good. I have to get out more for the kid and I. You could start a fire with them... My kid fills his fanny pack with ammo, grabs his pad and splits so he does'nt have to listen to me tell him to slow down. Hay Dad... My guns not shootin! Well slow down,Take a break and clean it! He grabes another gun and runs off.

Sidewinder: Enjoy your son's companionship to the max - but I would not give up on counselling him on respecting the machinery there! My good friend and Varminting buddy literally ruined the barrel on an exquisitely accurate Remington 40XB-KS in 220 Swift. He diminished the Rifles accuracy in just 2 trips to Prairie Dog land! My friend was previously only familiar with 223's and 243's and Rock Chuckin (a very different ball game). He had bought his 40X as a duplicate of one I owned and he was very impressed with!
Anyway his barrel was repeatedly shot while hot and the rifling literally was gone for the first 3 - 4 inches down the tube. This after 1,200 to 1,300 total rounds fired! During load testing I had personally seen that Rifle shoot .500" groups at 200 yards! The Rifle eventually became a .75" shooter at 100 yards after the hot shooting though. My friend found out first hand how expensive re-barreling has become! Yes please ask your son again, for me, to have mercy on that Rifle! If they warm up set them in the shade with the action open and the muzzle up to take advantage of the chimney effect and this will help cool that barrel as quickly as possible.
Some people apply ice cold rags to the barrel. I have not tried this as yet. I simply switch Rifles. I have been known to take 12 - 14 of them along on Safari with me. This way a full days shooting (sunrise to sunset) finds me cleaning Rifles only twice a day. Once at noon time and once after sundown! This way I get the maximum banging for my daylight bucks worth!
I heard its raining out in the Puget Sound today. I got a call from my Varminting buddy in Yelm, Washington this morning!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

A friend told me years ago it was okay to buy Tasco, but only the ones that were made in Japan. He said
there was quite a difference in quality. I heeded that advice and now have 4 of them in 6x24. All perform
quite well. I've never been able to see what the complaint with them is. Mind you, I don't mount them on
my heavy kicking magnums, but mostly on guns I shoot from the bench. Some are over 15 years old. I had
to return 2 Bushnells last year, a Sportsman and a Sportview, both 4x12's. Both incidently are made in
China. I think that's the real problem, the Chinese made scopes. Someday great optics may be made
there, but that day has definitely not arrived. They cannot handle any degree of recoil at all. It's not the
scope brands that are the problem, but the models and where they're made. We seem to be a tad slow
catching on to this. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Seafire or Seabiscuit,

Or whatever you call yourself. What's it to you what kind of scope or what brand I buy. Whether I buy a $200 scope or a $2000 scope, it's my business, none of yours. Where do you get off slaming people? This site is intended for an exchange of ideas. If you want to go around slaming people with your snide comments showing your immaturity, go away Bud....go far away.

This site can do without Liberals like you.

Here's something else that will probably pi** you off. Several of the rifles in my arsenal are Weatherbys.

Varmint Guy,

I think you have a point about Seafire. He's probably stressed out just returning from San Francisco with his marriage license.

It's guys like you that make this a great board. Too bad there's Liberals like Seafire always looking to start a pi**ing match. You know he'll come back with some smart a** remark.

Just ignore him. He'll eventually go away.

Sidewinder,

Keeping a barrel from overheating during a PD hunt is tough. I bring 2 each 22-250's for the long shots and a .17HMR for the shorter shots. When one barrel starts heating up I'll switch rifles. There are times when you have to quit shooting and let them all cool off. When I hunt PD's, I'm not in a race with my shooting buddy or anyone else. I take my time, enjoy the outdoors and the sport. Living in South Dakota has its advantages. We don't have to drive very far to shoot PD's and we can pretty much go every week end if we so desire.

Good Luck,

Its hard to control myself let alone him in a hot dog town. I'm with ya on the mass rifle thing. Definately the only answer to that problem. We like .223's.
Just reminiscing on the poking fun at the kid. He's grown. The Marines have him now. He learned well. I am really proud of him. Even though he took me for tons of fishing and hunting gear. Those were his worst crimes. I concider myself really lucky to have him as my son. His D.I. in boot camp put him in charge of the squads rifles. Not because Dan asked too. but there was'nt a question the DI asked that he could'nt answer.
He got some leave in Dec. and we had a chance to do some duck hunting and steelhead fishing. Everyone in the deer and elk camps around ours asked about him this year. I miss him. I'm hoping he can get some leave the same time I get a break from fishing in Ak. We'll be headed your way with everything we have... It probably will be in June. Grass will be a bit high for gophers. I like May or late April. Been snowed out and rained out in early and mid april. You better leave us some of the young dummies.
I,ve spent some time shooting rockchucks in Idaho. You have to be careful with the 22-250's and the .220's if the shootins good and it can be. I'd give up the best chuck hunt for a good gopher shoot....and I'd give up a elk hunt for a good dog town. I must be demented. Glad I don't have too. Think I'll just try to do it all. You guys are lucky that live in the middle of all that fun. Its not bad here. Washington is better for fish and game than most would think. I've talked to guys at the range that don't hunt anymore because they have moved here from Montana. They don't know what they are missing. Or maybe they do. You guys sure have the varmint hunting and long big game seasons. Yep... I'm jealous.
Thanks for your concern about the rifles. He has'nt ruined one yet. Just helped with shortening the barrel life in a few. I'm guilty of that too. I just want some of the fishing and hunting gear back he's left at friends and spread out all over the countryside.

sedakota, Your a lucky guy. P-dogs are one of my most favorite things to go after. Shoot um with anything and everything. With whatever scope you have. Thats what I say. As long as your having fun, thats all that matters. I've not made it to the Dakota's yet, but I'm working my way there. Made it within 50 mi. of the border last year. Been getting plenty of shooting in Montana so far. I went farther east cause of rain last year.
Love those .17hmr's. I have a CZ. I need another.
Hope your shoots are all good ones. Dave

Sidewinder,

Sounds like you have a son to be proud of. If you ever make it out to my neck of the woods. Give me shout, maybe we can vaporize a few.

Regards

Sidewinder: Good news about your son joing the USMC! Good for him.
No - I was just given you the gears for being a web toed Puget Sounder. I was born and raised in Renton, Washington and lived there the first 49 years of my life. I then retired and moved to Montana 6 years ago. Its been a dream like existence since then here. As a matter of fact I was born in the middle of July there in downtown Renton on a very rainy day according to my mother! I do not miss that rain and gray at all.
The only things I miss about the Puget Sound area is the Steelhead fishing and the restarants in Seattles Chinatown! Oh and of course my friends out there.
Oh yes I have had some good Hunts in Washington on Mule Deer, Whitetails, Blacktails, Bear and been on many Mt. Goat Hunts with friends but I love the long and liberal seasons here in Montana! And I virtually Varmint Hunt year round here!
We have a secret place here in Montana that I do not even mention its name in public. This relatively small area has A COYOTE SEASON! If you can imagine! A relatively short season by the way. And the Coyotes are as thick as fleas there! The rest of the state has no closed season, no license, Hunt them at night in any way and any how policy. So anyway I was Hunting for Mule Deer in this Coyote retricted area last fall and I killed two Coyotes with my new Ruger 77/17V in 17 HMR caliber. What a cool caliber and way to get Coyotes. Its very quiet and I did not distrub the few other Big Game Hunters in that area with the little rimfire!
It's so easy there, calling in and shooting Coyotes that I am surprised more folks do not take advantage of that Hunting. One reason is because the Coyote season is so short and runs only for a month and a half while most folks are Big Game Hunting.
Oh yeah - I have learned those lessons about missing gear as I have 3 sons and my stuff disappears like magic!
The last item of my gear to mysteriously disappear was my Prairie Ghost Snow Camo face mask! I looked for it until I was certain it had fallen out of the VarmintMobile on my last snow Hunt! But no! Where did it show up at? In VarmintSon #2's snowboarding bag! It was below zero the last time it was a snowboarding day for him and he "borrowed" it! I reminded him that the taking is only half of the borrowing and the returning in good shape is the most important other half!
Kids!
I used to fish the Sammamish Slough there in Bothell for Steelhead by the way! More later.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Thank you all for responding! Varmintguy and sedakota -- I especially thank you for your great posts and advice. I love the way you jumped on "Seabiscuit." He sure asked for it! Even though many of the responders do not like a 50mm objective lens, Leupold only makes the 8.5-25 scope with the 50mm objective lens. I think I will go with it. Today I was shooting my .243 SAKO 75 with a Swarovski 6-18 x 50 scope at a 100-yard paper target. I couldn't help but think of varmintguy's thoughts -- and YES, I wanted more power. I wasn't seeing my best today and I feel certain my groups would have been tighter if I would have had more power; thus, being able to hold more closely to dead enter each shot. A load that consistently groups into 1/2 inch was going into 1 1/4 inch groups!

Sedakota:

No one personally singled you out or had any intentions of doing so. As you state this forum is for people sharing ideas.
However evidently if those ideas differ from yours, then you have a problem with it.

So I offer my apologies to you if you felt like someone plucked your tail feathers.

I personally have no care or concern about what scope you shoot or what rifle you shoot. It is your money and your show. If you feel like you are proving something better by the amount of money you spend on it, then have fun.

If you thought calling me a "Liberal" was supposed to offend me then sorry it failed in its mission.

Other people's ideas are also going to conflict with yours, so don't think it is a personal attack when they do.

If you want to have an arsenal of Weatherbys with Nightforce scopes on them, then have fun. However your bitching about my post, proves the point I was making about most of the people who own them. It is an attitude. A dollar figure does not make you a better shooter nor a lower dollar figure does not make someone else a lesser shooter than you.

ACTUALLY I am glad that people in the Dakotas have that much money to spend on extra things. The economy must have picked up back there.

I sincerely hope you have fun shooting whatever you own.
Fun and effectiveness of usiing whatever you have is the bottom line. Not someone else thinks of it.

Seafire did not mention one person's name on his post, yours or anyone elses. However, you felt the need to mention his name in slander, so who is on the offense?

I won't justify it by going on the defense.
There is no reason to. Take a chill pill and enjoy your equipment.

Great response, Hot Core! Your response on scopes makes a lot of sense. Your thoughts regarding Seafire are right on; however, people with his mentality have great difficulty realizing they are the south end of a northbound horse. We are all probably wasting time even responding to his ignorance, as an old saying comes to mind. "Never get into a pissing contest with a skunk -- there is no way to win!" The asshole even had to throw some digs into his apology -- making his sincerity a joke. It appears HE is the one with Penis Envy [small dick syndrome].

Hot Cor -- You are very kind [to Seabiscuit]. I sure agree with you on Democrats, and I love ruining their days too. I do make it a point, however, to [at least try to] never take my own frustrations out on others. All rules are out the window when they deserve it, as most liberal democrats do. [SMILE]

HOT Cor: Great shooting advice and I sincerely thank you. I have printed out your post and put it in my shooting box. You are correct -- my targets were circles [large ones so as to not have difficulty seeing bullet holes in the black circle. [The center is white.]

Quote:
What is the "lowest power" you have had to crank back to in order to make a 400yd shot without mirage messing you up?

Hot Core;

Around 15 or 16X,,,never kept track of the temp.

knobmtn

i like big scopes, just love 8-32x50mm Burris Black Diamond, i have 5 of them! but i also have rifles with 1.5-5x20mm, 4x, 6x, 3-9x32,40,44,&50mm, 10x, 12x, 15x, 4.5-14x50, 6-18x40, 3 6.5-20x40's, 8.5-25x50mm scopes as well as iron sites and 2 red dot sites.
they ALL have a time and place where they shine, none of them do everything well!
I used to be able to shoot as well with a 10x as i now do with a 20x but my eyes have aged right along with the rest of me. i also tend to do more sitting and shooting now and less stalking.
if i had to pick 1 scope to do everything it would be a Leupold 4.5-14x50mm but i don't have to pick just one that's the great thing about liveing in the USA!
by the way my wife say's i have "Nothing to envy"