Which round would you pick for a dedicated PD rifle?? I built an F-Class rifle that has switch barrel capability and have ordered a 30" barrel 1 in 12" twist. The 6BR is tight necked and the 243 min. sammi. I really don`t mind turning the necks since I bought a caseholder and can turn them with a slow speed drill. What do you consider effective range with each, thanks for the replys. Tim

Been hunting prairie dogs for about 17 years. Have used everything from 17s to 257 Weatherbys.

In the 6mm family, currently using 6BR, 6/250, 243 Win, 6mm Rem, 6mm/06 Mashburn, and 240 Wby.

If you don't mind case neck turning and the other stuff that goes with preparing 6BR brass and ammo, think you will be just as well off shooting the 6BR as any of the hotter rounds.

It would be the very marginal instance when the greater velocity of the 243 Win will buy you anything on a prairie dog hunt.

One issue is running out of ammo and needing to restock during a multiple day hunt. Have had to do that and was glad I had a rifle taking easy to find factory rounds (223 Rem in my case).

You will be happy with either the 6BR or 243 Win, but the 6BR might be a little lighter on the shoulder, which does make a difference after a thousand rounds.

Have a good hunt, but leave enough behind for me.

Hammer

P.S. Used to live in Tennessee, but had to leave when they elected Al Gore back in the Eighties. So far, Idaho has been a good place to collect my mail.

I know that you have many other fine rifles so bring along something smaller for the easy shots.

As to the choice between the two 6's it's up to you but if someone else is along I get competative and I would not like to be out ranged. Besides that I like the 243 a whole lot for varmints.

I`m one of the thousands of reasons he didn`t carry his home state in the presidential. Maybe he will collect mail elsewhere. Tennessee is to nice a place for such a poor excuse for a human being. I really am torn on this one, I have a background with the 243 that is telling me to go that route, but the smaller, lighter recoiling, inherently accurate 6BR is pulling on me. The fact that the barrel is 30" makes sence to go the 243. How fast can you go with a 70gr bullet in a 30" barrel??

All my custom barrels are 30 inch long. Do get a little more velocity than most claim, but do consider a rubber mallet as a standard part of my prairie dog kit. Without my records handy and with poor memory, think that about 25 to 40 fps gain per inch between 26 and 30 inch -- or 100 to 160 fps gain total.

Don't necessarily claim greater accuracy from the 6BR over the 243 Win if both have the same attention to gunsmithing and handloading.

If my memory serves me, David Tubb won one of his national high power championships with a 243 Win. He is currently competing with a 6XC, a cousin of the 6/250.

If you are the competitive type and will be shooting with others, then go with the 243 Win so as not to give up anything. As for myself, I get way too much blood pressure from work and daily life and shoot to relax.

Hammer

P.S. If Gore had lasted only one term, then Tennesseans wouldn't have much to be embarrased by, but they even re-elected the yo-yo and helped send him to higher office twice. It is a burden the state will have to bear for quite a while. Voting against him in 2000 helped, but more will be required to make total ammens. Even though they all claim they voted against Gore in every election, as part of total state restitution, my remaining Tennessee family members each buy me a new gun each Christmas. It helps to clear their conscience that they didn't do more to stop Gore's ascent.

You thought about a fast twist barrel chambered for the 6BR? 200-300-400.....still kills them dead!!! 700,800,900,1000.......Dead and accurate and repeatable!! And not as much powder and watch them fall over!!! Just my thoughts!!! I think the 6BR is a great little round!! I also think the .243 and 6mmRem are great little rounds but for a real fun gun, a fast twist 6BR could be REAL FUN!!! And I'm not sure you'd need that extra 5-6" of the barrel!! GHD

The barrel is in already, it is a 1 in 12" twist.

Tim, In that case since the barrel is a 1-12 have fun with the .243! And the little pills!!! 55BT's, 58VMaxs, 65VMaxs, 70BT,probably the 75 and 87VMaxs,(the 87's are going to be about the biggest!!!) etc. Post pics of the Safari!!! Wish I could join you!! Charlie (GHD)

Groundhog Devistation, give me your recommendations on the ideal 6BR. Twist and barrel brand, length, favorite bullets. I have an open mind, and maybe a new project. grin

I'd go with the 243, for the same reason I would buy a car that ran on regular gas vs, premium. Ease and availability of brass. You can buy 243 brass anywhere.

The 6mm has a great selection of bullets that will keep anyone busy. I own a batch of 243s and a 6mm Rem. I use them more as specialty gun when I shoot prairie dogs. A 223 is a lot more cost effective for volume shooting, in a lot of terms.

I figure 80 to 90% of all the prairie dogs I have taken have been within 200 yds, so long range or power is not really essential, except for 10 to 20% of the ones you will take.

But like I do, I set up my 223 for all the 200 yds and under ones on the hood of my truck and then have a 22/250 or a 243 available for those longer shots.

As much as I LOVE 6mm bore, I think 22 caliber bore is the better to have for shooting volumes of P.D.s. Now for ground hogs when 10 in a day is a LOT, then I'd opt for the 6 mm bore all day long. My 6mm Remington is set up to shoot 105, 107 and 115 grain match bullets which are fun on prairie dogs at those real long ranges. A 105 grain A Max has exploded a few at 450 to 600 yds for me.

cheers
seafire

For Montana prairie dogs I use a 243 shooting 85 or 87 grainers. I also use my 6mmbr shooting 55 or 73 grainers. Both work well and I always bring four rifles along so that one can be in use while the other are cooling down.
I shoot where I get a LOT of shots.

As for the 6mmbr, I chose to use Lapua brass without any neck turning and had a reamer cut appropriately. The Lapua brass is ready to load when received. I know that I could uniform necks but I don't think I have ever missed a praire dog due to the rifle not being accurate enough. It is generally clearly my error that leads to a missed PDOG.

I really like using the heavier bullets in the 243 for aerial shots - where the PDOG is lying on its belly. I shoot for the belly/ground juncture and can get 8 to 10 feet of lift which is why I call them aerial shots. I also bring along a bolt action in 7.62x39 and it kills them just a dead but without a spectacular effects. The 7.62x39 works well out to about 250 yards. Takes a bit of hold over, but it nails them, and with cheap Wolfe softpoint ammo.

Just load up for everything you own and haul it to the PDOG area and have fun!

Well the verdict is in, I will chamber in 6BR. My smith was pretty instrumental in telling me how well liked the little 6 is. The barrel will be shortened to 27". I got to looking and the Hornady V-Max is offered in 65gr. I will try some in it for sure as this seems a good weight for the cartridge. My twist should allow up to 80gr. and I will try some Ballistic Tips in that weight.

Tim in Tn: I currently own a big bunch of 24 caliber Varmint Rifles that I have used on Prairie Dogs! These include factory and custom Rifles both. Right off hand I recall now having 24 caliber Varminters chambered in the following cartridges 6x47, 6mm PPC, 6mm BR, 243 Win. (many of these), 6mm Remington (several of these), 6mm Remington Ackley Improved and a custom heavy long barrelled 240 Weatherby. I have used some of these Rifles for decades and bought my first 24 caliber Varminter in 1966. I love the 24's and have lots of trigger time with them!
If the mythical "could only have" man came to me and posed the cunundrum that I could only have one Varminter in 24 caliber my choice would be the 6mm Remington Bench Rest - no hesitation!
The 6mm Remington Bench Rest cartridge is in my estimation in the top five Varmint cartridges of all time!
It is simply a sensational cartridge and a sensational all around Varminter!
My 6mm BR was extremely easy to find an amazingly accurate load for and the accuracy continues in my Rifle to this day!
The mild recoil of the cartridge in my heavy Rifle (13 pounds 10 ounces) and the slow to heat barrel makes for easy spotting of my own hits even on warm days!
The brass life is like "forever"! And its an economical and easy cartridge to reload for.
I do not turn the necks in my custom 6mm BR. I chose the reamer that would be conducive to this and I chose it to be necked for the then new Nosler 55 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip bullets. It shoots these very well but shoots the 68 gr. bullets even a bit better!
You put plenty of scope power on your 6mm BR and choose a pointy bullet and you can make shots on PD's way way out there! I know I have done it! And I have on most occassions been able to spot my own hits!
The best group from my 6mm BR (and remember I quickly settled on this load during testing and quit range shooting once I found my load!) was a .208" 5 shot group at 100 yards! I use this load for Varmints. I have a Leupold 8.5x25 scope on my 6mm BR and when I go to a Prairie Dog Town with this rig I REALLY "go to town" - so speak!
Good luck with the 6mm BR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Tim, I didn't get back to you quick enough!!! But you decided right without my help!!! The barrel length is fine, and I would have probably went with one of Charlie Douglas's premium barrels.....a little less cost and have yet to find one that doesn't "spec"!!! Can't say that for all of the manufacturers!!!! You'll have yourself a great varmint rifle!!!! By the end of the summer, there will probably be a "fast twist" version of said 6BR in old GHD's arsenal!!!! Like I need another varminter!!!! Anyway! Good Luck and post results of your project!!!! Can't wait to see it!!! Old VG was pretty convincing in his arguments also!!! I'm gonna hunt with him someday!!! Charlie (GHD)

I would LOVE to spend quality time with both Varmint Guy and Groundhog Devistation, and others who gave insight to my delimma. My smith is great for sure as he was very instrumental in pulling me in the right direction this morning. We talked about this chambering quite a bit, about optics, and finally reloading techniques, admittedly I was in great shape except for his optics choice. He preferred lots of magnification. I have not yet bought scope for this switch barreled F-Class/prarie dog rifle. I will purchase a Nightforce 12-42x56. Reticle unknown yet. My tapered base came in today, it was at least fun attaching it to the BAT action. I still need a trigger, the one I bought didn`t fit. I bought a Shillen BR trigger I believe 2 to 6 oz. and with the aluminum trigger hanger it won`t fit all the way into the action recess. I see where I might can grind the ears off the trigger where the interference is but don`t know if this is the correct remedy.

Varmint Guy, what powder do you favor for the 55`s, and if not too pushing, who`s 68`s are your favorite bullet. Thank you much, Tim.

Tim in TN,

Nightforce makes great scopes from my experience.

And there is a use for high magnification.

But for field use on prairie dogs, would prefer a lower magnification range. Personally never use more than 20X on prairie dogs and typically between 10X and 15X. Mirage, field hold, field of view, and other things influence it.

Started using lower magnification when noticing that all my fellow shooters were having more fun than I was. Then one of them turned the power down on the scope I was using and I found out why on the next shot. With the lower magnification got to see the aerial sommersaults.

In a pure benchrest mode, use all the magnification available.

Hammer

Hammer, for a dual purpose varmint, target scope on a switch barrel, could I use the bottom end of 12 power on vamints and then crank up the power to 42 when target shooting?? That is the nice thing about variables. Nightforce makes an 8-32x56 also. My choice will stay at the 12-42x56 for now.

Tim in TN,

Certainly.

But I'd go for 8-32 over 12-42. Really think there will be little use for the extreme high end compared to the lower end. There are days that 8X is just right.

But I'm sure there are others who would feel different.

Hammer

Tim in TN,

Keep in mind I still use a Stevens single shot with iron sights on prairie dogs out to a 100 yards. Of course, my hit rate ain't very good compared to a scoped rifle, but it makes me feel good when I do hit.

Same with a single action 44 Special.

Hammer

Points well taken, the 8-32x56 might be the one.

Tim in TN,

May I ask, why are you cutting the barrel at 27"?

Jim

Tim in Tn: I had great accuracy with the Nosler 55 gr. Ballistic Tips using Federal 205M primers and H322 powder AND RL7 powder. Depending on my mood and whats up to Hunt I sometimes use the wonderful Euber 68 gr. match bullets. These match bullets are pretty frangible and open up real well on Rock Chucks and larger Varmints. On the Prairie Dogs though they do not have the explosive tendency like on the Rock Chucks. But I have not noticed any ricochet problem with this bullet in the field.
I use Norma brass, Federal 205M primers, 28.5 grs. of H322 and the Euber 68 gr. moly-coated bullets in my favorite 68 gr bullet load for my 6mm BR. I have not as yet tried any Berger bullets in this particular Rifle.
I have never owned a high end scope above 36 power for Varmints so I can not give you a learned opinion in the 12x42 scope choice situation. I have several straight 36x scopes on Varmint Rifles but the highest variable power range I own is 8.5x25.
By the way my 6mm BR has a Hart 26 1/2" stainless heavy barrel. I forget (and forgot to write down in my handloading log!) what the twist rate is for this barrel. I will check this afternoon and post it for you.
Good luck in your venture!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

pdhuntr, it was brought up by my smith, he is the one who suggested it, used the term "balance", and also viewing the case, it seems logical that powder should be spent at that length. Had I stayed with the 243 Winchester, it would have been kept at 30". I think he said he would ship within the next 2 weeks, so if you guys see where I can improve something please feel free to comment. I paid xtra for the longer blank, kinda hurts. I will say I am feeling giddy over the cartridge choice. This rifle will weigh in at around 20#`s. There is a serious question here I would like to ask and hope all will have comment. I am looking really hard at the Hornady 65gr V-Max. I already have 1200 Nosler 6mm 55gr on hand, and 300+ Hornady 75gr V-Max, but this case seems to beg for a 65gr bullet. The question for you guys is, has Hornady closed the gap in the accuracy department with the V-Max? I have had extremely good luck with Ballistic Tips shooting better than any other commercial offering. I might go custom but don`t like flat base bullets at 250 to 300 yds due to extra drop from lower b.c. I want to purchase in bulk and would hate to get stuck with somethig I don`t need. Thanks for any input, Tim

Varmint Guy, you are a prince of a fellow to help out with such fabulous information, I can`t tell you how much I appreciate it. My smith mentioned 4895, N133, N135, and said don`t be afraid to crank it up, that the cartridge loved to be pressured, he mentioned velocities that raised my eyebrows.

Tim in TN, Don't overlook the "68" grain pills offered by a few companies!!! I was in "deep varmint hunting conversations" with 2 of my fellow VA hunters who travel out west on yearly prairie dog safaris and who both shoot CUSTOM 6BR's!!!!! And the 68's are thir choice go to bullets!!! And your gunsmith told you right about the barrel length-powder burning deal!!! A powder you may want to consider trying in the 6BR is ACCURATE 2460!!! GHD

I will surely be trying customs, my smith builds many BR rifles and will help guide me to a good source. There is much info on 6BR.com and found a page with varmint loads, your suggested powder is on the list at 33.0gr with 70gr bullet at 3275. I didn`t find thier barrel length mentioned. I will try Benchmark with the 55`s as I use it in a 5R 308. The most impressive load mentioned is VV N135 31.5gr and a velocity of 3300fps with a 75gr V-Max. I`m fired up!!!

No one has mentioned... keep the barrel at 30". Shoot the crap out of it, cut a couple, maybe 4" off the chamber end and you have a new polished barrel.

Certainly something to consider, I`ll ask my smith how well that works, I`m sure he`s done it.

Dan, No need to cut 4" off the chamber end!!! 1" will do the same deal as you're talking about!! 1" off the muzzle end and an inch off the chamber end nd recut the chamber!!!!! and it's a newbie!!! Barrels wear out on each end!!!! not in the middle!!! You brought up a good point!!! I'd like to have a barrel full of the original 27 1/4" Remington 40X barrels in assorted calibers....224,243,6.5,308 to play with!!!!! Probably would outshoot some of the "premium" barrels offered today!!! There's one on a 222MAG that is 20" and it's one that when you take it out makes you wonder why you own anything else!!!!! Even a "beginner" can shoot .2's with that one!!! :GHD

Tim in TN,

The reason I asked is I didn't know if there was a length restriction in F class. Barrel length can be a personal "thing" also. I would just like to relate some of my experience with many heavy pd rifles.

When building a rifle such as yours, I fight for every 1/16" (of barrel length) I can get for several reasons.

The most important (my opinion) is the longer barrel permits me to get more speed with less powder. Less powder translates into less heat. A rifle that generates less heat can be shot longer and (very important) will not wear as quickly. I have no desire to get into an argument with your gunsmith about the "efficiency" of the 28th, 29th and 30th inch of your barrel. What I have found (with out exception) is cutting a barrel from 30 to 29 (and so on) will reduce the velocity.

Longer barrels give me more powder choices, I can experiment with slower powders, (less heat, wear again).

It is getting time for another of my pd rifles to get set back. My experience has been an inch off the back is sufficient. So far I have not had to cut (some from the front???) It is 27" now, heading for 26" and I REALLY wish I would have ordered and paid for the extra 3 inches.

A longer barrel will also permit you to rechamber (if you decide you do not like 6BR) and still have sufficient barrel length.

Good luck.

Jim

pdhuntr, thanks for your points, and taken. The 6BR barrel is a dedicated pd barrel to extend the use of investment of the F-Class rifle. I don`t know how many rounds can be had out of a well taken care of 6BR but I will figure it will get replaced after a few thousand rounds. I`m learning I`ll admit and will make mistakes, I`m only human. But this guy I use has credentials out of this world, and he will give way to my wishes, but with his vast experience, I figure if I listen instead of speak, I just may learn something. For now he has the reins.

Tim in TN,

It sounds like you have found a good smith to do the work and that is very likely more important than the barrel length. And with moderate loads your 6BR will last more than a few thousand rounds.

Jim